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View Full Version : Need some advice on DOA's



Don&SallysZoo
04-14-2008, 05:18 PM
OK, well we ordered a pair of B. vagans and they arrived DOA. :mad: Here's the situation. We paid the seller for express shipping and instead of shipping express he shipped them priority when he went to mail them out. He states that he didn't have the right sized box, so therefore, cost was going to be higher than what he charged us. Plus the PO told him they would arrive 2nd day...same as express.

So he sent them out Wednesday of last week and we got them today. They arrived Dead as door nails. Lid was just about off of one of the containers and the heat pack was inside with the T..(T glued to the Heat Pack).

I told the seller Saturday they have not arrived yet...he was pretty sure they would arrive DOA and suggested I collect from the PO since he insured the box.

We've never had a T arrive DOA, so is this common practice for the buyer to collect on DOAs, even when the seller ships a slower method than what you pay for?

We just wanted to get some feedback.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/pederson.don/SAPXM_TLaSI/AAAAAAAAAIs/xu7_XT1YapI/s400/MaleB..jpg
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/pederson.don/SAPXNPTLaUI/AAAAAAAAAI8/9DY12-tHzJs/s400/FemaleB..jpg

Staley
04-14-2008, 05:23 PM
The seller needs to refund you. You pay for express shipping you should get it. LAG is almost always standard with Overnight express. I hope you dealt with someone reputable.

Staley

Talkenlate04
04-14-2008, 05:23 PM
Holy cow that really sucks..........I feel bad for those little guys.

Normally what happens is if the seller has T’s to send as replacements they will do that, but if there are no replacements for the dead a full refund is issued. (regardless even if the post office is to blame, unless otherwise stated before the purchase was made.)

Some dealers will ask for pictures of the dead, some even ask that you send it back to them. But ether way there should be a resolution to the issue and there should be no more money spent by the buyer.

LeilaNami
04-14-2008, 05:25 PM
A buyer should either show pictures of the DOA Ts to the seller or ship back the bodies at the cost of the seller. The seller should then send replacements at the speed and cost he originally quoted you or refund your money including the shipping fee he charged you. If the seller does not do this then I would put a negative feedback in the feedback forum to warn other shoppers.

EDIT: It was the seller's own fault for misquoting the price of shipping and should have sent it express. I would still leave negative or neutral feedback regardless of refund or replacements if given.

LittleGiRLy
04-14-2008, 05:26 PM
As far as i know, HE owes you, not the PO, even if he insured the box, he sent it pri, and not express like you agreed on. And where is the rest of the money that you sent him for express mailing?! Also, packing was rather poor. I have yet to meet someone who ships with the heat pack inside with the T.

Sorry for your losses, and i hope everything gets resolved soon...



-

NevularScorpion
04-14-2008, 05:32 PM
I told the seller Saturday they have not arrived yet...he was pretty sure they would arrive DOA and suggested I collect from the PO since he insured the box.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/pederson.don/SAPXM_TLaSI/AAAAAAAAAIs/xu7_XT1YapI/s400/MaleB..jpg
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/pederson.don/SAPXNPTLaUI/AAAAAAAAAI8/9DY12-tHzJs/s400/FemaleB..jpg

I think you can get introuble if the PO finds out that the item inside the package are tarantulas because its illegal to ship animals or venomous. I suggest that you ask the person that you deal with for the full refund. poor Ts :(

GailC
04-14-2008, 05:40 PM
I agree, the seller owes you a refund for the T's and the shipping. If he couldn't ship the way he said he would, then he shouldn't have shipped them at all until he checked with you first. Not to mention that if they had been packed proper, they might have made it alive even with the delay. The heat pack should have never been packed with the T, poor shipping all around.
Sorry for your loss and I hope you get reimbursed.

JMoran1097
04-14-2008, 06:15 PM
damn, sucks. this is going to be a really obvious question, but did their abdomens explode from the heat?

Moltar
04-14-2008, 06:19 PM
Refund.

That person doesn't know how to ship and i personally wouldn't risk the disappointment of a couple more doa's showing up on my doorstep were i in your position.

Veneficus
04-14-2008, 06:38 PM
You can not collect from the PO, because it is illegal to ship tarantulas in the mail (this seems to keep coming up...sigh...).

The seller needs to give you a full refund! Especially since it's their fault they shipped it the wrong way when you paid for overnight. If he had the wrong box size or it would cost more, then he needed to let you know and get more money or repack them into a different size. They should have never gone out like that.

What a waste and a terrible, sad shame. :-(

sick4x4
04-14-2008, 06:43 PM
I think you can get introuble if the PO finds out that the item inside the package are tarantulas because its illegal to ship animals or venomous. I suggest that you ask the person that you deal with for the full refund. poor Ts :(

it differs from PO to PO...in southern cali i have shipped and receive large amounts of T's... to be honest when i get a package, they always want to see what it is and when i ship, i tape it in the PO because they want to see the T's...i'm sure there is rules but really, the PO isn't out to get us...but i wouldn't brag when shipping that im sending extremely venomous bugs lol...that would be stupid..

wayne

WyvernsLair
04-14-2008, 07:02 PM
it differs from PO to PO...in southern cali i have shipped and receive large amounts of T's...


The individual employees might let it slide occasionally for shipping purposes, but I highly doubt the USPS service itself will honor a claim and refund money on damaged items (in this case dead spiders) even though the box was insured since spiders are very clearly listed in their regulations as NOT being allowed to be shipped through them.

sick4x4
04-14-2008, 07:47 PM
The individual employees might let it slide occasionally for shipping purposes, but I highly doubt the USPS service itself will honor a claim and refund money on damaged items (in this case dead spiders) even though the box was insured since spiders are very clearly listed in their regulations as NOT being allowed to be shipped through them.

it was the manger but your right to the claims aspect...the losses are recouped through the parties involved but to say the USPS will not ship venomous animals isn't totally accurate...they all might share a single policy but if truth be told, its really a discretionary issue that differs from PO to PO...

Talkenlate04
04-14-2008, 07:53 PM
I think the only way USPS would give you any cash is if the box was gone gone gone, and no one could find it, but that almost never happens. And even then you would still have to lie about what was in the box.......
KARMA bites! :wicked:

bugster
04-14-2008, 09:46 PM
I've had some experience with getting USPS insurance claims, and you should also be aware that to place a claim you will need:

1) All packaging/materials, labels, etc. from package
2) The tarantulas will be seized (as would any other damaged items) by the USPS and will not be returned.
3) Proof of price paid and/or value of comparable item (print out receipt or some other proof of item's value)

The whole process is really a hassle and reimbursement will not be immediate at your local PO, but done through corporate somehow.

Obviously there's no getting around admitting to the USPS what was in the package either. :)

arrowhd
04-14-2008, 10:41 PM
From looking at your pictures, they may not have been alive if shipped overnight. You have every right to demand a refund or replacement. You might also want to tell this individual how to properly pack them for shipment. Unbelieveable.

Don&SallysZoo
04-15-2008, 12:23 AM
I would like to thank everyone for their feedback. I've been in contact with the seller and he tells us that he'll refund our money by noon tomorrow. We'll see how this goes.

He said this is his first time shipping T's and he was hurried and tried to keep cost minimal. I'll keep this updated as we go and hopefully he does come through on what he says he'll do. I'll be posting in the feedback section later once this is complete.

Cirith Ungol
04-15-2008, 12:57 AM
and he was hurried and tried to keep cost minimal.

Then to me it looks a bit like the seller missed the point with the whole thing... :cool:

Don&SallysZoo
04-15-2008, 01:46 AM
I've had some experience with getting USPS insurance claims, and you should also be aware that to place a claim you will need:

1) All packaging/materials, labels, etc. from package
2) The tarantulas will be seized (as would any other damaged items) by the USPS and will not be returned.
3) Proof of price paid and/or value of comparable item (print out receipt or some other proof of item's value)

The whole process is really a hassle and reimbursement will not be immediate at your local PO, but done through corporate somehow.

Obviously there's no getting around admitting to the USPS what was in the package either. :)


Yeah this is why insuring T's through the PO is a joke...IHMO.

Nerri1029
04-15-2008, 08:53 AM
Something to add. ( devil's sdvocate )

Yes the official policy is no T's.

that aside, there is no reason the USPS should refund your money.

They did nothing wrong, aside form a late package.

Assuming the package was not labeled "LIVE"
Assuming the package wasn't mangled.

The manager would be well within logic to deny you the value of the contents. A refund of the shipping costs maybe since it was late, maybe.

IMO the responsibility based on this

and the heat pack was inside with the T..(T glued to the Heat Pack) belongs to the seller.

smof
04-15-2008, 10:41 AM
You can pretty much forget whether it took a day, two days or a week to arrive... he put the heatpack IN the container with the T?? It was probably dead within an hour. Poor thing, what a way to go :(

P. Novak
04-15-2008, 12:25 PM
The seller should definately refund you, especially since you paid express. That right there has guaranteed live arrival written all over it. Regardless of what he shipped, you paid for express so that alone get you a refund, it's his fault he shipped priority. I, myself, guarantee live arrival with express and priority because I am very confident in my shipping and have had very good success rates.

In the end, you SHOULD get a refund, not buts about it.

Moltar
04-15-2008, 12:30 PM
http://lh6.ggpht.com/pederson.don/SAPXM_TLaSI/AAAAAAAAAIs/xu7_XT1YapI/s400/MaleB..jpg
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/pederson.don/SAPXNPTLaUI/AAAAAAAAAI8/9DY12-tHzJs/s400/FemaleB..jpg

Are these pics at all indicative of how they were shipped? ie without proper padding, just loose in the containers?

If so maybe you could direct the seller to some threads here about packing t's. Although it can be heart stoppingly exhilerating with certain spp, packing t's isn't really THAT hard. Especially if you don't have extreme temps to worry about as in spring and fall.

Don&SallysZoo
04-15-2008, 12:38 PM
Are these pics at all indicative of how they were shipped? ie without proper padding, just loose in the containers?

If so maybe you could direct the seller to some threads here about packing t's. Although it can be heart stoppingly exhilerating with certain spp, packing t's isn't really THAT hard. Especially if you don't have extreme temps to worry about as in spring and fall.

Yep those pics was taken right after taking them out of the PO box. Yeah the only paper towel that was used was what you can see in the bottom pic with the female. The male had nothing in it except the heat pack that he's glued to. I am planning on directing the seller to the threads for packing.

Don&SallysZoo
04-15-2008, 12:42 PM
Well I just want to say that we have been refunded by the seller for this horiffic ordeal. I'll be posting in the feedback section later when I have more time. Again thanks for all the feedback...:)

Anastasia
04-15-2008, 12:42 PM
Yep those pics was taken right after taking them out of the PO box. Yeah the only paper towel that was used was what you can see in the bottom pic with the female. The male had nothing in it except the heat pack that he's glued to. I am planning on directing the seller to the threads for packing.

OMG!, That is totally wrong, and we have SO MANY!! treads on 'HOW TO' pack and ship tarantulas
Sorry for your bad experience

Don&SallysZoo
04-15-2008, 12:43 PM
You can pretty much forget whether it took a day, two days or a week to arrive... he put the heatpack IN the container with the T?? It was probably dead within an hour. Poor thing, what a way to go :(

Yep they never had a fighting chance!!!

Corranthe
04-15-2008, 12:44 PM
Yeah this is why insuring T's through the PO is a joke...IHMO.

Hmmm. Maybe, maybe not. I wonder if packages get treated somewhat better when they have a label on them saying that they are insured. Perhaps if the PO thinks that they will have to take a loss if contents are damaged, then perhaps they don't bang those particular packages around as much?

Whatever the case, I agree with everyone else that the seller is 100% at fault and liable.

Don&SallysZoo
04-15-2008, 12:47 PM
Hmmm. Maybe, maybe not. I wonder if packages get treated somewhat better when they have a label on them saying that they are insured.


Our box was labeled that it had insurance...but this wasn't the PO's fault, because they were goners within no time, based on packing.

cacoseraph
04-15-2008, 12:56 PM
it is completely against USPS policy to ship tarantulas. full stop. any manager or local branch or whatever that says it is fine is stupid and woefully uninformed. full stop.

trying to get a refund out of the USPS cuz your spiders died could get you and the sender in big trouble. if the local branch escalates up you eventually will run across someone who can read their own rules and then you are busted ;)


yes, i know the OP got a refund from the sender and all... but somethings need to be stated clearly for ppl who might read this thread later.

i have said it before and i will say it again... there are no known legal ways to ship tarantulas in the USA. find me the rules ON THE WEBSITE of a shipping service that clearly states that tarantulas and other venomous inverts that i can call and confirm on all levels (except bees. also some scorps (can't remember if live or dead) can be sent to or between scientific institutions) and i will paypal you $20 (but give me a month or so to make good. and only the first person to bring the evidence to light will get the moola. and there will only be one winner =P )

apidaeman
04-15-2008, 01:06 PM
Those vagans appear to be quite large, they could have probably survived easily for over a month "lost in the mail" and been just fine. No doubt the cause of their deaths was an extreme case of negligence.
I feel really bad for the spiders and for you as well what a terrible thing to have to open the box and see.

gambite
04-15-2008, 03:30 PM
Wow, I have never mailed any T's and even I know how to pack one right. Maybe this can be a learning experience, though. The seller may figure out how to do it right next time, and with some proper shipping techniques could turn out to be quite reliable.

jeff1962
04-15-2008, 06:25 PM
As most everyone has stated the seller owes you a refund. Thats got to be the worst packing job I have ever seen,the T.s never had a chance. :wall: Could you please do a review of the seller so I can be sure to never buy from them. I love the lame reason " I was in a hurry" what a pitifull excuse ! :mad:

Don&SallysZoo
04-16-2008, 02:15 AM
Those vagans appear to be quite large, they could have probably survived easily for over a month "lost in the mail" and been just fine. No doubt the cause of their deaths was an extreme case of negligence.
I feel really bad for the spiders and for you as well what a terrible thing to have to open the box and see.

Yeah I agree...they both were around the 4" mark. Proper packing would have saved 'em. Yeah my jaw hit the floor when I open the box...!

Don&SallysZoo
04-16-2008, 02:16 AM
Well I have left my review of the seller in the review section here on AB.

Nich
04-16-2008, 02:24 AM
Edit; Wrong Andrew.

Don&SallysZoo
04-16-2008, 02:36 AM
If it was someone new it wouldnt suprise me. I actually had T's sent to me in a ziplc with pp towels inside in a manilla envelope. The sender was 13.....;) And claimed to be 24. If it was a member with more than afew T's, they knew what they were doing, and the t's were either dead or dying. I can see a damp clot of pp towel smashing a T, but with a brachy.....only mechanical damage would kill them in the mail if they were in good health.


Ziploc bag...cheap packing..hey :rolleyes: The seller claims this was his first attempt at shipping T's. Honestly I hadn't thought of the fact that they could have been dying...on there last leg, the male was supposed to be a molt away from maturing. Female not sure on age. Seems kinda stupid to try and pull this one, but I guess people do it.

Don&SallysZoo
04-16-2008, 03:10 AM
Your in the US right? Andrew is allegedly in Canada......hmmmm. If you did some research on him before buying you might not of had the reaction you did upon reciept of the animals, biet not right, you would of been expecting. Given all his past purchases he has seen how inverts were packed, you took a risk by not researching, and he shipped VERY badly if not intentionally so. Sounds like both parties have something to be sorry for.

Yeah I'm in the US. I don't know, but our box was shipped from the East Coast here in the US. Why would someone intentionally ship badly :?

arachnophoria
04-16-2008, 06:30 AM
I am the shipper in this instance.I do not know who this Andrew is in Canada, but I have never lived or shipped anything from there.I welcome all your feedback,but I will not argue here, as the situation is at rest and I have post a reply in my own review, if people want to know my stance,however it may or may not sway the outcome of all of this.If you did a search for my posts within this site, you would find, I am a caring and intelligent keeper, who goes through great lenghts to treat my animals well.This was fluke and very embarassing and disappointing incident to have on my reputation.I have done all I can to rectify things,and I know I will be told by many that there is a plethora of good packing information on here.All I can say, is I felt confident that I knew how to pack the ts for thier journey and really botched it.I have learned from it and hope that is enough to maintain the persona I try to present,when I post,buy,and sell here.Thanks everyone.

Alonso99
04-16-2008, 12:34 PM
As far as I know. Andrew is in mcsherrystown...PA. About 5 hrs from here. He has learned from this experience. He is a nice guy and deserves another chance.

jukahman
04-16-2008, 01:02 PM
Got 2 DOA's from one of my shipment.good that the seller replaced my order...:D :D :D ..hope u get your money back or your order.:)

Moltar
04-16-2008, 01:06 PM
Much respect to arachnophoria (andrew?) for manning up and posting here. That shows class. Any mistake is not a total loss as long as you learn from it.

Don&SallysZoo
04-16-2008, 01:15 PM
I am the shipper in this instance.I do not know who this Andrew is in Canada, but I have never lived or shipped anything from there.I welcome all your feedback,but I will not argue here, as the situation is at rest and I have post a reply in my own review, if people want to know my stance,however it may or may not sway the outcome of all of this.If you did a search for my posts within this site, you would find, I am a caring and intelligent keeper, who goes through great lenghts to treat my animals well.This was fluke and very embarassing and disappointing incident to have on my reputation.I have done all I can to rectify things,and I know I will be told by many that there is a plethora of good packing information on here.All I can say, is I felt confident that I knew how to pack the ts for thier journey and really botched it.I have learned from it and hope that is enough to maintain the persona I try to present,when I post,buy,and sell here.Thanks everyone.

Andrew, No hard feelings. You issued us a full refund, which we really appreciate plus your additional offer. We'll be contacting you soon.

arachnophoria
04-16-2008, 07:58 PM
Thank you for those who have aknowledged my efforts to make a positive step forward in a very ugly situation.

zarko
04-16-2008, 08:34 PM
refund of money