So is keeping a black widow easier than keeping, say, a venomous snake?

[ScottySalticid]

I've always been wondering this, as spiders are alot easier to keep. Also, the fact that you don't handle them seems to greatly reduce risk of being bit.

[crpy]

For the most part a widow just hangs there and then scoots up in a corner (if not already up in a corner)when disturbed, say by feeding.

A venomous snake just lays there, until feeding, then depending on spp. can tag you butt with a feeding response if your not careful.

Which is easier:? = widow:D

Oh, if a venomous snake gets sick= Potential trouble
If a widow gets sick=it dies and you get another from the basement

[ScottySalticid]

For the most part a widow just hangs there and then scoots up in a corner (if not already up in a corner)when disturbed, say by feeding.

A venomous snake just lays there, until feeding, then depending on spp. can tag you butt with a feeding response if your not careful.

Which is easier:? = widow:D

Oh, if a venomous snake gets sick= Potential trouble
If a widow gets sick=it dies and you get another from the basement

man i wish i could find a laughing smiley to show how much i laughed at the truth i just read.

yea i've kinda considered getting one but never knew if it was a good idea.

[crpy]

Glad I could be of help:D

[ScottySalticid]

Glad I could be of help:D

sadly i think getting one would only get me in huge trouble, but we'll just see what happens. if i find one, then go me.

[crpy]

sadly i think getting one would only get me in huge trouble, but we'll just see what happens. if i find one, then go me.

Why, because of a dorm thing

[ScottySalticid]

Why, because of a dorm thing

not really the dorm thing, but going home for the summer. i don't think a potentially deadly spider will not receive a warm welcome in my abode.

[clam1991]

well i think easy depends

someone who wants a venomous animal may think a snake would be easier
if they have a bunch of rats to feed them

but others may be worried about them getting out
and then some people would be worried about the spider because its so small and might be more venomous than a certain type of snake

id rather have a rattler bite me than a black widow


and is there an anti venom for spiders?
just wondering i know there is for snakes

[ScottySalticid]

well i think easy depends

someone who wants a venomous animal may think a snake would be easier
if they have a bunch of rats to feed them

but others may be worried about them getting out
and then some people would be worried about the spider because its so small and might be more venomous than a certain type of snake

id rather have a rattler bite me than a black widow


and is there an anti venom for spiders?
just wondering i know there is for snakes

i'm pretty sure there is spider antivenom as well

[crpy]

not really the dorm thing, but going home for the summer. i don't think a potentially deadly spider will not receive a warm welcome in my abode.

ahh, Kinda understandable especially if it was a gravid one.

My parents were kinda lenient, they let me keep a cotton mouth in my room when I was 17. Thats when I found out about parthenogenesis in Agkistrodon.

[clam1991]

hmm well i guess it depends on what kind of temperament you want from you pet?

[ScottySalticid]

ahh, Kinda understandable especially if it was a gravid one.

My parents were kinda lenient, they let keep a cotton mouth in my room when I was 17. Thats when I found out about parthenogenesis in Agkistrodon.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA please don't tell me the cottonmouth demonstrated parthenogenesis! hell would break loose quite literally

[crpy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA please don't tell me the cottonmouth demonstrated parthenogenesis! hell would break loose quite literally

Well when I was 17 a veterinarian friend and I performed a labialectomy on her(removal of venom glands, pre-occular location) and for 1 year I force fed her. Another year went by and one morning I found 10 babies in her tank. I had never heard of parthenogenesis so I never checked to see what sex they were. So 2 years with no male, I suppose it could have been delayed implantation.
However I have a herp friend that has a female that has had parthenogenic reproduction with one of his A. p. conanti =well documented.

[ScottySalticid]

Well when I was 17 a veterinarian friend and I performed a labialectomy on her(removal of venom glands, pre-occular location) and for 1 year I force fed her. Another year went by and one morning I found 10 babies in her tank. I had never heard of parthenogenesis so I never checked to see what sex they were. So 2 years with no male, I suppose it could have been delayed implantation.
However I have a herp friend that has a female that has had parthenogenic reproduction with one of his A. p. conanti =well documented.

well i HOPE you kept records on your cotton!

[MaartenSFS]

Without question, a black widow. A venomous snake can easily escape if the correct precautions aren't taken.

[crpy]

well i HOPE you kept records on your cotton!

I only have records of the operation and the birth. The operation details went to Texas A&M as well.
How ever my friend's amelenistic A.p. conanti is recent and well documented and I am contacting him to get that info for AB.

[redsaw]

I would say that keeping a black widow would be easier. here is a bad pic of the jar that I keep my widow in. just put in a little subsrait & a twig with branches to climb & make web on. the widow jar is on the right. If you look closely you can see sprouts growing on the twig in the jar
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh311/gregmary_photos/Our%20Bugs/100_3031Small.jpg

[cjm1991]

well i think easy depends

someone who wants a venomous animal may think a snake would be easier
if they have a bunch of rats to feed them

Not to mention the fact that a snake has like 30x the reach of a widow...

but others may be worried about them getting out
and then some people would be worried about the spider because its so small and might be more venomous than a certain type of snake

The thing is, a snake is more likely to look for an escape and more than likely alot more aggressive than a widow. The widow would just chill in a corner or its web most if not all day. They are also not the best at walking on plain ground and have adapted to more alot more quickly on their web. A snake however can go through water, small spaces, and alot faster than a widow.

id rather have a rattler bite me than a black widow

Lol you say that now, a widow can give and may give a dry bite, a rattle snake WILL envenomate you and you will have to go to the hospital right away.

and is there an anti venom for spiders?

Yes there is and only for some species not every single venomous spider, same for scorpions

just wondering i know there is for snakes

Well I gave my 2 cents on the topic :rolleyes:

[Venom]

This is simple: a black widow is far easier and safer to keep than any venomous snake. Why? Think about it: which is easier to get tagged by, a 1-inch lump that hangs upside down in a web, or a lithe, 3 foot viper that can strike from half its body length away? The snake can get to you much more easily than a spider, i.e., the snake has the ability to "reach out and touch" someone, whereas the person must, essentially, reach out and touch the spider to be bitten.

Add speed, size, ability to escape versus ability to contain, and lifestyle: a snake is a hunting predator, mobile. A spider sits and waits. The snake obviously has more of a tendency to "want" to get out of its box. There are members on here who have kept Latros free in their homes: setting up a web in a corner, and leaving it there. The spider stays put once its web is assembled, providing the site is successful, and nothing disturbs/ wrecks the web.

In short, widows are smaller, slower, and lazier than any snake.

[MaartenSFS]

Not to mention that pit vipers have hemotoxic venom..

[darkhelmet]

i would also rather get bit by a widow than most venomous snakes anyway...

[Motzo]

You have a higher chance of dying with a pit viper bite then you would with a black widow bite-IF it isn't a dry bite.
As a child, I read somewhere that there's an 8% chance of death if you get a widow bite, on the off-chance that you are allergic to either the venom or the antivenom (or you fit in to the 'really young, or very old' category)
I'd be much happier with a widow bite. Easier to diagnose and treat.
But I also like pit vipers.. I'll probably get one when I'm older...

[ScottySalticid]

Not to mention that pit vipers have hemotoxic venom..

but are you aware that a black widow's venom is 7 times deadlier than a pit viper's?

[ScottySalticid]

This is simple: a black widow is far easier and safer to keep than any venomous snake. Why? Think about it: which is easier to get tagged by, a 1-inch lump that hangs upside down in a web, or a lithe, 3 foot viper that can strike from half its body length away? The snake can get to you much more easily than a spider, i.e., the snake has the ability to "reach out and touch" someone, whereas the person must, essentially, reach out and touch the spider to be bitten.

Add speed, size, ability to escape versus ability to contain, and lifestyle: a snake is a hunting predator, mobile. A spider sits and waits. The snake obviously has more of a tendency to "want" to get out of its box. There are members on here who have kept Latros free in their homes: setting up a web in a corner, and leaving it there. The spider stays put once its web is assembled, providing the site is successful, and nothing disturbs/ wrecks the web.

In short, widows are smaller, slower, and lazier than any snake.

some comments on your thoughts. not trying to be a jerk, just throwing the info out there:

not all snakes are mobile predators. many pit vipers, boas, and pythons are sit and wait predators.

and widows being lazier than snakes? my friend, you must have never owned a ball python then :}

[Motzo]

but are you aware that a black widow's venom is 7 times deadlier than a pit viper's?
The venom may be deadlier, but don't you think the issue with their bites is more about quantity than quality?
Snakes and black widows both kill people, but black widows don't have as high as a death-per-bite rate as most pit vipers do.
But that's interesting information about the venom. I didn't know that.. Thanks! :)

[cjm1991]

but are you aware that a black widow's venom is 7 times deadlier than a pit viper's?

I really didnt know that. But still like Motzo said and I said earlier, a widow can and most likely will give a dry bite while the snake would unload its venom glands into you on the first bite if it felt threatened enough to strike at you. 1 small drop of venom, or a small tablespoon of still very toxic venom.

[crpy]

I really didnt know that. But still like Motzo said and I said earlier, a widow can and most likely will give a dry bite while the snake would unload its venom glands into you on the first bite if it felt threatened enough to strike at you. 1 small drop of venom, or a small tablespoon of still very toxic venom.

Snakes dry bite more than not, but in a captive environment ,true you will probably get invenomated.

[ScottySalticid]

The venom may be deadlier, but don't you think the issue with their bites is more about quantity than quality?
Snakes and black widows both kill people, but black widows don't have as high as a death-per-bite rate as most pit vipers do.
But that's interesting information about the venom. I didn't know that.. Thanks! :)

of course that would make sense, wouldn't it? :} . i suppose that's why not so many people die from coral snake bites since they're so tiny.

Glad I could teach you something new! most people say it's deadlier than rattler venom, but that's just way too vague for me lol.

[cjm1991]

I keep sicarius and some other very toxic inverts but I would never really consider getting a highly venomous snake or even a potentially threatening one at that. Spiders may be small and can fit through some small spaces but that doesn't mean they are going to sit and try every aspect of the enclosure. A snake is always on the move looking for prey as Venom said and would probably be more likely to escape than a spider.

[MaartenSFS]

A venomous snake is like a two metre long centipede, but it has heat sensors and can strike up to one half of its body length (depending on species). I have encountered and caught many snakes in the bush. Here in China I have seen several species, including cobra. When given a choice of fight or flight, the latter is always chosen.. HOWEVER, if not given a choice... :cool:

[Widowman10]

id rather have a rattler bite me than a black widow

i sure as heck would not!!! :eek: :eek:

i'm pretty sure there is spider antivenom as well

there is, but ya don't need it ;)

I would say that keeping a black widow would be easier.

much easier. you have to work to kill the things...

i would also rather get bit by a widow than most venomous snakes anyway...

me too, as stated above... ;)

but are you aware that a black widow's venom is 7 times deadlier than a pit viper's?

and 15 times deadlier than a rattlesnakes. we've heard it before, but then again we all know that rattlesnakes inject a much higher quantity than widows.

widows are not aggressive/defensive at all like hots can be. rattlers will get angry and bite for you just being near. widows, well, i hold them a lot and they never care ;)

WIDOW. period.

/discussion

[What]

but are you aware that a black widow's venom is 7 times deadlier than a pit viper's?

Where did you get that statistic?

[Widowman10]

Where did you get that statistic?

wikipedia? {D

haha, i don't know if it's true or false, but i'm sure compared to some pit vipers venom that may be correct. if it's 15x as toxic as crotalus venom, it has some feasibility.

[What]

Well, according to this (http://members.tripod.com/~c_kianwee/rpotent.htm) LD50 value chart, cross referenced to this (http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/LD50men.html) chart, the venom is less potent than some vipers, and more potent than others...

Eh, whatever... I dont think the potency is really an issue. IMO, barring allergic reactions, a venomous snake will almost always be worse to take a hit from than a latro (not to mention easier to get tagged by).

[ScottySalticid]

Well, according to this (http://members.tripod.com/~c_kianwee/rpotent.htm) LD50 value chart, cross referenced to this (http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/LD50men.html) chart, the venom is less potent than some vipers, and more potent(up to ~13x) than others...

Eh, whatever... I dont think the potency is really an issue. IMO, barring allergic reactions, a venomous snake will almost always be worse to take a hit from than a latro (not to mention easier to get tagged by).

Ah ok. I guess people just rounded the statistics to 15 times more. I tried to procure it from my stored memory in my brain {D

[Motzo]

I'm pretty sure you aren't going to find a Widow in anyplace too conspicuous.
Well, not in southeastern Texas anyway... Darn blue mud daubers got to 'em.

[crpy]

I'm pretty sure you aren't going to find a Widow in anyplace too conspicuous.
Well, not in southeastern Texas anyway... Darn blue mud daubers got to 'em.

I used to find them there in Tex along any bayou when I lived in Alief and Missouri city area ,but that was long ago.

[Motzo]

I've seen one once as a child. I haven't found any since, though I suppose it's just the wasps in this area (specifically the blue daubers)
They'd be in less open, harder to find places I bet..
Who knows, I might go looking someday..

[8+)]

I'm really surprised this is even being debated, it just seems like there is no comparison! A venomous snake (most any snake really) has much greater demands on a keeper. They need a much larger cage that fastens very securely, they need species specific substrate, they need heat gradients, they are much more expensive to feed, their cage needs to be cleaned much more frequently (increasing the chances of a bite), and IMO they are much more dangerous.

As far as the likelihood of biting you, the snake wins hands down. I think in addition to what others have mentioned, it really boils down to awareness. A snake has much better eyesight, and is so much more aware of and able to react to your presence. Widows can only react to you if you touch them or their web, and even then you can easily evade them. Widows are very clumsy anywhere but their web. Seems like a spider of the genus Phoneutria, would be one to close the gap a little, as they appear to have better eyesight and be more reactive.

All you need to keep and deal with widows is a jar, some sticks, maybe a fan brush, and a bug once or twice a month. The only thing harder about widows is that you either have to acquire more or breed them, if you want to keep them for any length of time.

[cjm1991]

Most Latros arent very expensive and they lay sacs like crazy if they are WC. So the debat is over, if thats even what you want to call it.

[ptviperz]

I kept venomous snakes for over 10 years and hands down spiders are easier to keep. Room requirements, food, cleaning, everything is simpler and less dangerous with spiders.

On the other hand, I have never been close to being bitten by a snake and these damn spiders make me nervous because you are always in such close proximity to them when doing maintenance. I fully expect to get tagged by a pokie or something one day. Snakes are much more predictable than spiders.

And for the record, I'd take a widow bite over anything but a contortrix

[8+)]

id rather have a rattler bite me than a black widow

rattlesnake bite GIS (http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=rattlesnake+bite&btnG=Search+Images)

[antbebo]

I live with both rattlers and widows on a daily basis in West Texas, and am far more nervous about a rattler than a black widow. I have moved black widows using a short stick to get them out of the way of garage doors and outdoor sheds. I have never come across one that was at all aggressive towards me even though I have been within a couple of inches from them. If I find a nice one, I will toss it a couple of mealworms once a week. Even my 3 year old knows to steer clear of them, and I don't worry about him around the widows if we know where they are. How much easier can it get? A rattler near the house or pens, on the other hand, gets a shovel tossed at it.

[ScottySalticid]

I guess what I was really trying to ask was if it's ok for a spider noob to just go out and get a widow and try keeping it. I've been working with reptiles forever and I always read how it's responsible to be very experienced with reptiles before keeping venomous snakes/lizards.

Would you have to take precautionary measures before getting a widow? Like would you need any specific supplies for working with a potentially deadly spider?

Also, are there legal issues to deal with in order to get 'em?

[Widowman10]

I guess what I was really trying to ask was if it's ok for a spider noob to just go out and get a widow and try keeping it. I've been working with reptiles forever and I always read how it's responsible to be very experienced with reptiles before keeping venomous snakes/lizards.

Would you have to take precautionary measures before getting a widow? Like would you need any specific supplies for working with a potentially deadly spider?

Also, are there legal issues to deal with in order to get 'em?

yes, it is perfectly ok. no real precautionary measures, just don't be stupid, be responsible. no specifics supplies, just some little grabbers if you want. no legal issues. they are very fun pets. i sometimes hand feed mine. great fun :D

[buthus]

Ive set up more then a few widows in my room with no enclosures. ...and I cant see doing that with a dangerous snake. :? :D

Would you have to take precautionary measures before getting a widow? If its not native, you should worry a bit about slings getting out. Tight wove nylon mesh such as wedding veil and some silicon aquarium glue can make for a fast n easy escape proof solution.
But besides that, this idea that there is some real danger if slings escape into/around the home ...IMO..bunk. The chances of a sling making it to adulthood in ones home, even with an entire sac escaping, is small at best. And if one does find its perfect place behind the washing machine or wherever, she'd be pretty much just another spider.

Like would you need any specific supplies for working with a potentially deadly spider? tweezers and a couple different sized artist brushes ...fan brushes are great.



As for the question of venom/danger when comparing lets say a rattler vs a hesperus...
100 mile out, lost, mid of the desert... mommy nature grabs me by the balls and offers.. "cake or death?". I look at that cake thinkin, its probably gonna give me troubles... "Ill take the cake" I sez.

[UrbanJungles]

You shouldn't really be keeping venomous snakes unless you have a permanent secure location, preferably where if the snake escapes it won't be able to come in contact with anyone.

I'd wait until you move out on your own to get a venomous snake, stick with the widow for now.

[Tarangela]

I would take the widow over the snake any day....I have had snakes, they are cool, and neat to watch...I just trust my spiders more...;P

[the nature boy]

If you can read this and not decide a widow is the safer way to go you have the IQ of a rock.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/bite.html

--the nature boy

[clam1991]

hohohohoh

i know what im getting:razz:

[the nature boy]

hohohohoh

i know what im getting:razz:

snake? :wicked:

[crpy]

imagine takin a pin and poppin them blistas...squishy!

[clam1991]

i once got a blister cuz someone in my shop in school thought it would be funny to see how my hand holds up against a piece of metal that was just welded

well i got a blister and when i went to pop it, it shot a stream of..blister goo? out
it was awesome:D

[the nature boy]

i once got a blister cuz someone in my shop in school thought it would be funny to see how my hand holds up against a piece of metal that was just welded

well i got a blister and when i went to pop it, it shot a stream of..blister goo? out
it was awesome:D

Thanks! I appreciate that!

--the nature boy

[clam1991]

Thanks! I appreciate that!

--the nature boy

mama always told me to share{D

[crpy]

i once got a blister cuz someone in my shop in school thought it would be funny to see how my hand holds up against a piece of metal that was just welded

well i got a blister and when i went to pop it, it shot a stream of..blister goo? out
it was awesome:D

cool, I stuck a hot paper clip through my bosses finger nail cause he had hit it with a hammer and it was all infected, man, gook squirted and hit the ceiling, the yelling was ear piercing.

[the nature boy]

mama always told me to share{D

She meant your girlfriend.

[the nature boy]

cool, I stuck a hot paper clip through my bosses finger nail cause he had hit it with a hammer and it was all infected, man, gook squirted and hit the ceiling, the yelling was ear piercing.

Man, I can always count on you. :evil:

[Widowman10]

If you can read this and not decide a widow is the safer way to go you have the IQ of a rock.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/2437/bite.html

--the nature boy

if someone had the IQ of a rock, they wouldn't be able to read... ;) you would just have to show pictures, point and grunt. :D

either way, thanks for sharing the stories of popping things. great mental pictures...

[The Flork]

haha how is it a question? black widow is in her web all the time waiting for something on her web. snake is waiting for movement and heat, all of witch you have opening the cage to feed it, so every time you feed it your taking your life in your hands. spiders arnt always gonna bite, they just try and get away. one time i went from the walk down to the bus stop, the bus ride to school and class until gym class when i took of my sweater and a black widow fell out all day long i had that sucker in their!!! wouldn't of made it outta the house if it was a rattler haha

all that aside i think what it comes down to is when push comes to shove-man vs beast a black widow can be stepped on and smooshed, you try and step on and smoosh a snake your gonna get bit haha