Communal Project Pictures

[AbraxasComplex]

So here are 3 of my communal tarantula projects. Sadly when I went to take pictures nearly all the tarantulas hid.

The first is a Holothele incei tank and has been running for nearly 2 years. It is now starting on it's 3rd generation. It has produced hundreds of Holothele incei. I've actually removed females with eggsacs and sold/gave away the babies. About 100+ are in there. The bugs that keep it clean in there have reduced the substrate in places revealing the hydro balls I used for drainage.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/nite~shade/DSC03506.jpg

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/nite~shade/DSC03508.jpg





This is my Heterothele villosella tank. They had been together for 6 months in another tank and when I transfered them (9) into this tank about 3 weeks ago, but kept one out since she was on an egg sac. They haven't fully established yet, but they are quite active at times.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/nite~shade/DSC03517.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/nite~shade/DSC03518.jpg

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This is my Heterothele gabonensis vase. The vase is about 34'' tall. Inside are 3 tiny slings that have just started webbing. They have been in there for a week. If they do well I shall add the other 4 slings and maybe one or both of the adult females.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/nite~shade/DSC03526.jpg

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[JimM]

Excellent job sir, and thank you for posting these pics.
Please keep them updated!

[rochin]

that is just amazing.. thanks for posting those pics

[Endagr8]

Those are amazing. :eek: :drool:

Do you have any Poecilotheria ssp. communal projects?

How's the M. balfouri communal going?

[AbraxasComplex]

Those are amazing. :eek: :drool:

Do you have any Poecilotheria ssp. communal projects?

How's the M. balfouri communal going?



Haven't mixed the M.balfouri yet. But will in a bit. As for the communal Pokies, I decided not to get into them. I'd feel bad giving them a 2 foot tall tank. I'd rather do a 6+ foot tall tank. Maybe I'll convert another china cabinet into a tank.

[JimM]

I especially like the vase.

[micheldied]

sweet setups!
great job!

[Miami Cracker]

OMG those are beautiful...if you dont mind ...what are the green vines? that are in the vase?

[AbraxasComplex]

OMG those are beautiful...if you dont mind ...what are the green vines? that are in the vase?

To be honest I'm not sure. I usually use ficcus, but this time I decided to switch it up and use a different species. So far it is paying off, but cannot tell you what it is. I will ask my botanist friend.

[AbraxasComplex]

And for those who love the vases my room is full of them. Some contain tarantulas, others tailless whip scorpions, scorpions, jumping spiders, trapdoors, centipedes, and so on. All my tanks are decorative furniture. I'll post a video or more photos once my 3 large tanks are finished.

[AbraxasComplex]

OMG those are beautiful...if you dont mind ...what are the green vines? that are in the vase?

I found out it is a varient of Muehlenbeckia.

[PrimalTaunt]

The vases are a very nice idea and a great change from the normal square tanks or plastic jars. I'm looking forward to seeing more pictures of these once you upload them.

[Miami Cracker]

I found out it is a varient of Muehlenbeckia.

Thank you for taking the time ......and again they are beautiful:clap:

[kman]

That is certainly amazing! Thank you very much for sharing the pictures. I do have to ask though how on earth do you do maintenance on that first tank if it's needed? Keeping your eyes on one T can be challenging enough!

[AbraxasComplex]

That is certainly amazing! Thank you very much for sharing the pictures. I do have to ask though how on earth do you do maintenance on that first tank if it's needed? Keeping your eyes on one T can be challenging enough!



When you open the cage the H.incei scatter and hide in the web tunnels. All I do for maintenance is wipe down the glass with vinegar and water, mist, and add carrots for the feeder bugs/detrivores that are in the tank. Every few months I have to add some extra soil. It's odd how an inch disappeares in a couple months. So far no escapes when cleaning. I may also have to add more plant clippings soon since they webbed over much of it.

[Bothrops]

The H. incei terrarium is beautiful!

[Teal]

Very cool! I've got a little H. incei communal project going... so far, it's only a short amount of time, but I've got high hopes for it!

[TalonAWD]

Gorgeous setups! I do have one Q.
Vinegar and water? Won't it make it smell a bit like vinegar and is it completely safe for the life in the tank?

I'm looking foward to seeing more of your setups.

[AbraxasComplex]

Gorgeous setups! I do have one Q.
Vinegar and water? Won't it make it smell a bit like vinegar and is it completely safe for the life in the tank?

I'm looking foward to seeing more of your setups.



Vinegar is the safest glass cleaner you can use around animals. Not only does it remove all the calcium and hard mineral deposits, it also helps get tarantula waste off the glass easily (in my experience). Vinegar is basically a watered down version of acetic acid. Acetic acid occurs naturally in nature, even being produced by animals such as vinegaroons. When it enters an environment it gets broken down, and since vinegar is already diluted acetic acid and I am adding more water to it, it becomes further diluted and has little to no affect on the pH of the soil or water in the tank.

[blazetown]

Nice setups. Those clay balls are hella useful for a lot of things.

[Bill S]

Vinegar is basically a watered down version of acetic acid. Acetic acid occurs naturally in nature, even being produced by animals such as vinegaroons. When it enters an environment it gets broken down, and since vinegar is already diluted acetic acid

Vinegar CONTAINS acetic acid - along with a host of other chemicals. Most of those chemicals are probably harmless and will break down into other harmless chemicals. But acetic acid is not particularly harmless. The reason vinegaroons use it so effectively for defense is that it is powerfully irritating to moist membranes - and book lungs would qualify as moist membranes. While the liquid you obtain by mixing water and vinegar contains dilute acetic acid, that liquid does not aerosolize along with the acetic acid. The acetic acid that aerosolizes is pretty pure - there's just less of it than there would be if you used straight vinegar or more concentrated acetic acid solution.

I might use it to clean cages or objects that go in cages when no animals were present, but I would avoid using it in any place where there were live animals, especially in a cage where the vapors would be contained around the animal. And if I used it to clean a cage, I'd definitely wait until all acetic acid vapors had thoroughly dissipated before I place an animal in that cage.

[EDED]

When you open the cage the H.incei scatter and hide in the web tunnels. All I do for maintenance is wipe down the glass with vinegar and water, mist, and add carrots for the feeder bugs/detrivores that are in the tank. Every few months I have to add some extra soil. It's odd how an inch disappeares in a couple months. So far no escapes when cleaning. I may also have to add more plant clippings soon since they webbed over much of it.

what are these bugs you keep for house keeping? pill bugs?

i keep T. tomentosa but they are very small and i would need a big big colony to tackle something like your tanks lol

[AbraxasComplex]

Vinegar CONTAINS acetic acid - along with a host of other chemicals. Most of those chemicals are probably harmless and will break down into other harmless chemicals. But acetic acid is not particularly harmless. The reason vinegaroons use it so effectively for defense is that it is powerfully irritating to moist membranes - and book lungs would qualify as moist membranes. While the liquid you obtain by mixing water and vinegar contains dilute acetic acid, that liquid does not aerosolize along with the acetic acid. The acetic acid that aerosolizes is pretty pure - there's just less of it than there would be if you used straight vinegar or more concentrated acetic acid solution.

I might use it to clean cages or objects that go in cages when no animals were present, but I would avoid using it in any place where there were live animals, especially in a cage where the vapors would be contained around the animal. And if I used it to clean a cage, I'd definitely wait until all acetic acid vapors had thoroughly dissipated before I place an animal in that cage.

Actually white vinegar is made by oxidizing a distilled alcohol (ethanol, with grain as a source). CO2 is produced and evaporates and acetic acid is also produced. The result is a solution of about 5% acetic acid and the rest water. Once diluted by half or more in the case of my glass cleaning, the concentration would decrease to <2.5% acetic acid.

Vinegaroons produce acetic acid at a much higher amount (about 85%) making the pH level substantially higher and the resulting dissociation of base materials more harmful. For other natural sources just look at any biological system. Acetic acid is needed in the metabolism of fats and carbohydrates (coenzyme A) and is the main component of the acetyl group found in nearly every organism. The acetyl group is also an integral component of DNA transcription. As the concentration of acetic acid decreases so do the potentially harmful effects, and in many cases becoming useful, tolerated, and even integral.

As for the dissociation of the acetic acid in my tanks, a large majority of it bonds to the calcium and other metals on the glass from hard water and various other sources to form a salt (neutralizing the pH effects). Insubstantial amounts of hydrogen are released in this process. The remaining acetic acid (acid is only an acid while dissolved in solution) and the salt on the glass is wiped away with the cloth I use to dry right after a quick wipe down.

But honestly. According to the LD50 it takes 3310 mg/kg to kill a rat through oral dose. That's an extremely high amount. And yes it does not correspond with what may be toxic to a tarantula, but I will continue using it on all my tanks to clean them until my tarantulas, snakes, scorpions, centipedes, tailless whip scorpions, snails, worms, millipedes and everything else I have shows signs of distress from that cause. I have been using it for over 10 years in large (6’x2’x2’) to miniscule (500 mL) vivariums with no visible ill effects. All those species are still alive and well and in some tanks there are multiple generations.

[AbraxasComplex]

what are these bugs you keep for house keeping? pill bugs?

i keep T. tomentosa but they are very small and i would need a big big colony to tackle something like your tanks lol

And the detrivores I use are sow bugs (another isopod), 2 species of worm (including red wigglers), tiny millipedes, spring tails, 2 species of tiny land snail, and predatory mites (to keep other mites at bay). So you only need a small colony of each if you have the other species aiding in the maintenance of the tank.

[Bill S]

Actually white vinegar is made by oxidizing a distilled alcohol (ethanol, with grain as a source). CO2 is produced and evaporates and acetic acid is also produced. The result is a solution of about 5% acetic acid and the rest water.

Yup, alcohols oxidize into acids, and those in turn oxidize into aldehydes. Formanol becomes formic acid becomes formaldehyde. Ethanol becomes ethanoic acid (aka acetic acid) becomes ethanal (an aldehyde).

As the concentration of acetic acid decreases so do the potentially harmful effects, and in many cases becoming useful, tolerated, and even integral.

Yes, and acceptable food under certain circumstances. But we choose how and when to ingest it. Spraying it into a cage may or may not fit within that realm of choice or appreciation.

But honestly. According to the LD50 it takes 3310 mg/kg to kill a rat through oral dose. That's an extremely high amount.

I took it for granted that you would be well below an LD50. It's not the lethality I'd worry about, but just the possibility of irritating/stressing the animals in the cages. You may very well have worked out the proper dilutions and habits to keep this to a minimum, but I don't think I'd give it a blanket recommedation to others who might not recognize the negative potential for misapplication. You may have overstated its harmlessness.

[EDED]

And the detrivores I use are sow bugs (another isopod), 2 species of worm (including red wigglers), tiny millipedes, spring tails, 2 species of tiny land snail, and predatory mites (to keep other mites at bay). So you only need a small colony of each if you have the other species aiding in the maintenance of the tank.

hah, damn nice 'stack' of cleaning crew, i like that

thanks for the info

[sharpfang]

I 'd like to set-up p.ornata and Avi. Avic. 10 a cage.................................

80712 They are found in the wild that way
But, they do pick off weak and injured.
Naturalistic set-ups a must 4 colony...
Jason....

[nrokin]

And for those who love the vases my room is full of them. Some contain tarantulas, others tailless whip scorpions, scorpions, jumping spiders, trapdoors, centipedes, and so on. All my tanks are decorative furniture. I'll post a video or more photos once my 3 large tanks are finished.

Id like to see more of the vases that is such a wonderful decorative idea!