Good beginner/display pede

spider_mike

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
65
Hello,

Does anyone have suggestions for a good beginner pede that gets large and will display ok? Not hide all the time.

Thanks,
Mike
 

Taryllton

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
65
Hello,

Does anyone have suggestions for a good beginner pede that gets large and will display ok? Not hide all the time.

Thanks,
Mike
Pedes are awful as display animals, generally speaking. I don't think there's a ton of difference in relative preference for hiding between species, they're just built to burrow/squeeze into tight spaces. It's their nature. Maybe someone will correct me if I'm wrong, though...
 

spider_mike

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
65
Don't they come out at all? My scorps and T's venture above ground but usually at night. The scorps are out every night and i can click on the black light for some viewing. Are the pedes nocturnal also?

Mike
 

VesAn

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
110
Don't they come out at all? My scorps and T's venture above ground but usually at night. The scorps are out every night and i can click on the black light for some viewing. Are the pedes nocturnal also?

Mike
My personal experience is that my s. polymorpha is out all the time, and my s. subspinipes is out maybe half the time, with the other half spent hiding. If I stay up late I can usually see the s. subspinipes out wandering his terrarium after 12:00 at night.
 

SAn

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
351
Every pede will spend most of its time borrowed or hidden if enough substrate or a good hide are provided.
 

BrysonCJ

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15
Saw my E. trigonopodus above ground once: the day I got it. Since then, if I want to see her I have to observe from the bottom of the terrarium- sometimes I can see her belly nestled against the bottom pane of glass. There's some evidence that she comes topside now and then, but I have yet to observe this.

I see my S. subspinipes daily...however, he's always under his cork bark. I only see him because the bark is oriented in a way that if I get my eyes right up against the glass and shine a light I'll see a few segments and legs (sometimes a head!).

My animals are damn cool....but make HORRIBLE showpieces. I'm hoping that with warm weather next year they'll come out a little more.

As for the polymorpha I owned 8 years ago- I seem to remember it being out all the time...but I also used just regular dirt from the backyard for substrate and can't remember having any hides for it. It ended up getting attacked by little black ants while I was on vacation. There weren't nearly as many resources for pede husbandry back then as there are now, unfortunately.

Millipedes, on the other hand, have made great showpieces for me...you just lose fearsome points.
 

spider_mike

Arachnosquire
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
65
Millipedes you say? That might not be bad. I have the scorps and T's and variose snakes, pitbull mutt so...... fearsome points should be covered. Looking for odd with this piece.

What types of milli's would you suggest?
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
8,325
i found giving them well ventilated cages really makes them hide more, but if you give them really low vent cages they will come out more
 

BrysonCJ

Arachnopeon
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
15
Hmmm, interesting. I'll experiment with ways to limit ventilation. All except my flat rock scorps and b. dubias have mesh tops (all second-hand tanks...beggars can't be choosers). I placed a large plastic shopping bag over 70% of my s. subspinipe's tank, leaving only a rectangle of mesh large enough for the heatlamp. It's a really large tank for just one pede (29-gal tall)...but I wanted to make sure it couldn't escape. We'll see if that makes a difference this week. If not, I'll try some other configurations.

Saw my E. Trigo's antenna today! It was where one of its tunnels runs against the glass.

After the demise of my S. polymorpha, my parents got me an African giant black millipede. Very cool pet- docile and always out in the open. Never excreted poison. Only had to worry about it pooping on me when I took it out of its tank. Easy to feed, too (fresh veggies). Got to be about 23 cm or so. Just ordered another one and a couple of its red-banded cousins to live with my hissers. Hopefully they'll be exhibitionists, too. It's nice to know that my room is full of inverts...I just want to see them!

A mantis might be a good way to go, too. The wild-caught one I have is always fun to watch. It will even take a dubia from my fingers. It's just unfortunate that their life spans are so short. When it dies I might consider getting one of the African giants. Active, ferocious, visible, and non-venomous...they're almost perfect.
 

SAn

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
351
IF you want a display animal buy a fish. Centipedes are not.
Any measure to prevent their borrowing abilities reduces lifespan or leads to a sick pede.
Pedes have some long periods of their life that they stay out in the open and then they borrow for even longer.
 

Moltar

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
5,438
I picked up a 3" S. alternans "haiti" a couple of months ago for my first centipede. I've heard they come out more than most and that seems to be true. I can catch it out walking around just about every evening. I can even gently pick up it's container to get a better look without it running for cover. (Sometimes)
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
8,325
i'd be careful with that heatlamp... you probably do need to use some kind of heatinng for at least winter in MD... but overall, heating is somewhat risky. centipedes have the crappiest moisture retention of most of the pet bugs and thus can dry out the easiest

as long as your temps are not staying beneath 50*F you don't really need to heat centipedes. mine did quite fine chilling out to 48-50*F for parts of winter

as a bonus they don't need to eat (and probably can't) at that level of temp
 

peterbourbon

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
622
Hi,

i'd be careful with that heatlamp... you probably do need to use some kind of heating for at least winter in MD... but overall, heating is somewhat risky. centipedes have the crappiest moisture retention of most of the pet bugs and thus can dry out the easiest
Centipedes live in different parts of the world that have at least differing temperatures. Their microhabitate is usually influenced by the climate outside, so that it depends on the species if heating is necessary or not (though most of them are robust and don't show clear signs of preferences, especially most of subspinipes - I don't wonder why they inhabit most parts of the globe).

Giving advices that focus on most maintainable setups does not mean it's good for pedes. If you heat up an enclosure you must surely fill the waterbowl a little bit more often, but why not? In their natural habitate they sometimes experience very dry and very wet days, changing quickly - they can choose between different temp zones what they actually can't do in a jar.
Keeping pedes in a non-ventilated small enclosure may work for some pedes and a certain period of time, but it's obviously nothing that resembles nature in any way.

as a bonus they don't need to eat (and probably can't) at that level of temp
What does "bonus" mean in this case? Less expenses for food? I had to read it twice to believe.

Of course there are some pedes who obviously "hibernate" in some ways (like most of the mediterranean species), but considering the tropics I doubt they stop eating in "winter".

Again: Pedes should not be overfed and some species even die faster if too much food is provided - but that has obviously something to do with natural conditions (enemies, the big fight for food - all things a pede will never occur in captivity). Spending less energy in our terrariums forces a modified diet to keep pedes in good conditions.

I always wonder why tarantula hobby is so established, making all unbelievable efforts to keep species alive and pedes are still kept in crappy conditions.

Passing by the last years in my mind I must sadly say that nothing has changed in the hobby: Pedes die of unknown reasons and people still guess it has something to do with wild-caught animals and import conditions - threads pile up with people asking what's wrong with their centipede - and finally no one makes just simple efforts to look at climatic diagrams in origin habitate. Are centipedes not worth the whole effort?

What we haven't considered for years as well is their digestive system with food and nutrition preferences. I don't expect people to come up with good concepts and I don't blame all the beginners, but experienced keepers like you who give antiquary advices always scare me, to be honest.

For years there has been a strange rumour around, like a "general care sheet" for ALL pedes. No one ever doubted it and nowadays still people adapt those general care sheets, as if all centipede species live in the same part of the world.

I can only motivate beginners not to believe anyone and make their own experiences by looking up the natural habitate of the species they want to keep. If no one starts to work on that topic and still picks up the most effordable and less time consuming answer, then I can't help.

Please keep back in mind: If you want an active, healthy and long-living animal of what kind ever, then you should simulate their habitate conditions as good as possible. If you only want a display object for a certain time then go to Wal Mart and buy your jars.

Regards,
Turgut
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
8,325
except that my pedes generally live for years and i had tons of babies, so the theory is sound. i got babies from equatorial, tropical and temperate species. i expect there are some species that need more closely maintained conditions, but i sure didn't find them out of the 20 or so that i kept


i don't understand what is antiquary about my advice. i have better success with centipedes than oh... ~95% of keepers, so it seems like there is probably some merit to what i say



oh, and the bonus is that you are basically extending the lifetime of the pede by the period in which they don't need to eat. i would consider moderately to massively increased longevity as something of a perquisite
 

peterbourbon

Arachnolord
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
622
Hi,

have better success with centipedes than oh... ~95% of keepers, so it seems like there is probably some merit to what i say
That may not be a result of keeping pedes in good conditions, but the lack of people who focus on centipedes. Not that your conditions are definitely wrong, but I'd consider even the same amount of 95% keepers who actually don't keep (or kept) pedes with same passion or in same amounts. This hidden part of your statistics should be considered as well.
If you said the same about Theraphosidae, then it had a different weighting.

oh, and the bonus is that you are basically extending the lifetime of the pede by the period in which they don't need to eat. i would consider moderately to massively increased longevity as something of a perquisite
What is in your opinion the period when pedes don't need to eat?
Some pedes even don't have winter in their habitate, so the period you talk about is a virtual period you decided to start in your time of keeping. A forced extension of lifespan in captivity has nothing to do with a proper simulation of their habitate and their natural lifespan.

A lot of pedes died (not only in my care) of bad ventilation - giving an explicit advice not to ventilate the enclosures does not match their habitate where they always have ventilation, if they like it or not.
Of course there is a bunch of hardy pedes out there who can survive in bad conditions, but we are talking about advices to keep a centipede in best possible conditions - and this is impossible to generalize for the meta-pede.
Have you ever kept centipedes who live in special/endemic habitates?
Have you ever simulated rainy/dry seasons for centipedes that live in those parts of the world, just for the experience to learn something more?

What I criticize is not the fact that no one keeps centipedes in perfect conditions (I guess it's almost impossible), but the general lazy attitude that avoids experimenting with different climatic zones and simulation of seasons, cause "finally it's just a pede". You'll never see an improvement of your husbandry, if you don't try.

Reproduction can't always be considered as a proof for good husbandry - and even less for pedes who have learned to live almost everywhere like morsitans, subspinipes.
Reproduction can be just a matter of survival as well - and everyone sees his/her pedes on eggs here and then.

Anyway: If you have good experience with keeping pedes in mentioned conditions, then it's fine.
But people should be careful with advices that are contrary to the natural habitate of animals.

If I kept 50% of my species like you did or do, they would die within one week.
The other 50% would maybe survive and even lay eggs.
Then I could give advices like "I even had a lot of clutches and pedes could survive a long time, so what?"
And also keeping centipedes in enclosures where they don't have the possibility to move properly can't be good at all. A lot of my pedes use the whole enclosure to wander around at night, so giving them space may not be that wrong.

I hope you see what I basically want to say. This specific part of the hobby did not seem to improve the last 5 years, because all the "old hobbykeepers" repeat their general advices again and again - and stopped to move and improve. Maybe time has changed - and it's finally the right time to focus that topic a little bit more.
If science repeated the old theories we wouldn't know that much today.
And that's what I meant with "antiquary advices".

Anyway: I don't meant to argue - it's always good to have different opinions. And i respect your experience as well (though it's contrary to mine). Finally I'm missing those debates.

Regards
Turgut
 

cacoseraph

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
8,325
well, i use no vent or super low vent cages and don't have problems with mortality from it so i submit your pedes are dying from something else


i kept a 4"BL pede in a 10 dram vial. it did great. it started out as a 2"BL and molted like 3-4 times in its tiny cage. to me this is proof positive that a large cage is not needed at all



see, you assume your fancy cages are the reason you have success... i am proof it is not the case at all.

instead of being offended at that you should see it is an opportunity to really figure out the *actual* requirements of centipedes... not those you have imagined for yourself


also, there are exactly three reasonable, objective criteria for success with simple animals: do they eat? do they molt/grow? do they reproduce? any other criteria are just subjective, probably emotional nonsense
 

Moltar

ArachnoGod
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 11, 2007
Messages
5,438
Debates like this between two experienced keepers do more to increase my understanding than just the answering of questions alone so thanks for disagreeing guys. :rolleyes:

In my case I have the hvac thermostat set for 69 degrees all winter long. The invert room gets lots of midday sun so it gets into mid-high 70's every afternoon. I think that should be fine for temps, yes? In a 4"x8" cylindrical plastic container I have lots of vent holes in the lid and around the top edge only. My reasoning is that this way the air won't get stagnant but will stay humid at the bottom, creating sort of a micro-climate down at ground level. This seems to be working as evidenced by the length of time it takes mistings on the wall to evaporate (18+ hours) I've been misting the whole affair twice weekly and squirting enough water in there to have a moist side and a not-so-moist side. The pede seems to move from one side to the other regularly enough, not sticking in any one place. I feel like i've got it close enough for comfort at least. It's made burrows all over the place and is eating.

My approach at keeping theraphosids is a little more like the approach caco describes. I think any animals that have survived as long as these have an inherent hardiness that makes them able to adapt - at least to a certain degree - to conditions outside the specific environment in which they're found. My setups are usually simple and geared towards meeting their needs rather than actually recreating their exact indiginous environment.

Even though I didn't start this thread, thanks guys for your input.
 

micheldied

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
1,327
get a mutilans commune...then you'll see them a lot.:D
my mutilans is always out when its dark.
 
Top