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View Full Version : Freezing a Tarantula to end it's pain - is that a good idea?



Kathy
03-27-2010, 08:35 PM
Is this really the best thing to do and why? I was just reading in the fish thread how inhumane it is to freeze a fish, yet I am always reading about putting a tarantula in the freezer to end its suffering. Could someone please explain the rationale behind this? I hope I never have to do anything like this, but would like to be prepared should I ever find one of my t's suffering and not going to make it.

Fran
03-27-2010, 08:48 PM
Well, if you think about it...What other method you sugest?
Is the best and easiest you can come up with. No one has on hand some kind of gas that will make them lethargic to a sweet and peacefull dead...
Among what "we" have, is the best one.

Scorpendra
03-27-2010, 09:02 PM
I'm always hearing about bleach and ammonia mixing to create Chlorine gas. Though I guess it'd be impractical to use something you need special containers and safety precautions for.

Edd Eskimo
03-27-2010, 09:06 PM
I don't know whether freezing is more humane.. But what I had to do yesterday was squish my 4in Female P.Regalis..I felt really horrible but I found it a lot better than freezing it to death.. and it died instantly and quickly..

The reason was I found one of my larger males in the colony I had munching on her fangs and upper portion of her body and she was still alive when he dropped her.. To me, I believed there was NO! way she would have lived and she started moving less after a few minuets she was dropped.. Please don't get me wrong or anything.. I would rather die quickly than freeze to death...

JC
03-27-2010, 09:07 PM
well, if you think about it...what other method you sugest?
Is the best and easiest you can come up with. No one has on hand some kind of gas that will make them lethargic to a sweet and peacefull dead...
Among what "we" have, is the best one.


+1..............

Skullptor
03-27-2010, 09:07 PM
I don't think I've ever been that presumptuous to make that call.

Nomadinexile
03-27-2010, 09:34 PM
I would smash it. I would rather have a 400 lb hammer come down on my head than freeze to death.

satanslilhelper
03-27-2010, 09:49 PM
How on earth does anyone think freezing something to death(not instantaneous) is more humane than stepping on them? I hate the thought of having to do it, but it sure seems more logical.

I've been lucky though and haven't ever had a situation arise that came to this end result.

How about lighting them on fire? I'm just sayin'!! If your willing to freeze your T's to death you might as well go to the other extreme and let 'em go out in a blaze of glory. I personally wouldn't want to die either of these two ways. I'll take a bullet to the head any day.(foot stomp for T's)

micheldied
03-27-2010, 09:58 PM
im guessing its because freezing slows them down,then something...and they die a less "painful" death.
maybe.
i would crush them though...

Edd Eskimo
03-27-2010, 10:02 PM
Wow..Thanks a lot LOl..I though I would have gotten a WAY WAY different response from people..But, I believe it is way more humane than freezing..less than 1 second of pain..or 20-30 min. of freezing tormenting cold.. and gas? Please..LOl..I don't want to die in a gas chamber..(I almost gagged to death in a CS gas chamber..would rather get shot than choke to death LOl)

Kathy
03-27-2010, 10:07 PM
Interesting....thanks guys. I wondered if freezing numbed them quickly or something but I'm not really seeing any logical reason to freeze them as it would just prolong their death. Thanks for the input.

Fran
03-27-2010, 10:10 PM
There we are making the mistake comparing them with us.

Its irrational to say "I would rather". You are a human being with an inteligence. A lot of things go thru your mind if you were freezing to death, way more than if you just suddenly die. But in terms of spiders...Cold temps slow them down, we dont know if they even suffer at all with that method and just simply get lethargic and die in a "sleeping way alike situation.

Squeezing them might be not painfull for them too (we dont know either) but for god sakes is way more disgusting and painfull to look at.
It just doesnt seem too civilized, if you ask me.

micheldied
03-27-2010, 10:12 PM
There we are making the mistake comparing them with us.

Its irrational to say "I would rather". You are a human being with an inteligence. A lot of things go thru your mind if you were freeing to death, way more than if you just suddenly die. But in terms of spiders...Cold temps slow them down, we dont know if they even suffer at all with that method and just simply get lethargic and die in a "sleeping way alike situation.

Squeezing them might be not painfull for them too (we dont know either) but for god sakes is way more disgusting and painfull to look at.
It just doesnt seem to civilized, if you ask me.

thats what i was thinking...

joshuai
03-27-2010, 10:28 PM
There we are making the mistake comparing them with us.

Its irrational to say "I would rather". You are a human being with an inteligence. A lot of things go thru your mind if you were freezing to death, way more than if you just suddenly die. But in terms of spiders...Cold temps slow them down, we dont know if they even suffer at all with that method and just simply get lethargic and die in a "sleeping way alike situation.

Squeezing them might be not painfull for them too (we dont know either) but for god sakes is way more disgusting and painfull to look at.
It just doesnt seem too civilized, if you ask me.

I agree. i have been in a bad spot here before and had become very close to freezing, i know they are not like humans but i would rather get lethargic and fall asleep and die in my sleep than get whacked with a hammer! ouch!

Mack&Cass
03-27-2010, 10:32 PM
Adding to what Fran said, a lot of people are forgetting that Ts don't generate their own body heat - whereas we do, so of course us freezing to death would be absolutely terrible, but you can't say the same for Ts.

We've only put one T in the freezer - a nematode infested P. ornata sling. It sucked having to do it, but it was either that or let the nematodes kill it slowly. I don't think either of us are capable of smushing, or stepping on, a T.

Cass

Kathy
03-27-2010, 10:32 PM
Well, at least no one has mentioned a can of Raid yet (thank goodness).......but now that I think of it, as the previous poster said they can't regulate their body heat so freezing would probably be very quick. Interesting.

Derek P
03-27-2010, 10:35 PM
Freezing animals is not a painless, nice way to go. Blood and hemolymph will both freeze prior to the loss of concenous and is painful and it is painful prior to the slipping away. Smashing a T is similar to the captive bolt or gun shot that is approved by the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) as a humain, instaneous, humane form of euthanasia. The other option is to cough up a little bit of money and take them to your local exotic's veterinarian for humane euthanasia with anasthetic gas and IV (and in inverts intracoelemic) euthanasia. Would you kill you kitten in the freezer or a hammer to the head?

Nomadinexile
03-27-2010, 10:36 PM
I agree. i have been in a bad spot here before and had become very close to freezing, i know they are not like humans but i would rather get lethargic and fall asleep and die in my sleep than get whacked with a hammer! ouch!

Well, my plan if I ever am terminally ill and in pain, is to jump out of a plane without a parachute. But if that's not an option, then I want the hammer. Big one though. :)

ZergFront
03-27-2010, 10:40 PM
Probably someone who thought of them more as "specimens" would be inclined to freezing so they won't have a preserved, squashed spider.

So far, I haven't really been in a situation where I pronounced an ill tarantula dead anyway. I always tried to give it my best shot but sometimes that wasn't enough. :(

Kathy
03-27-2010, 10:43 PM
Derek, would it be different between warm and cold blooded animals/reptiles, etc. though? I would never freeze a warm blooded animal. I wonder why on other tarantula boards everyone recommends freezing the t. to end it's suffering. I really thought that was the "approved" method. I'm glad I asked, it has me thinking. Bottom line, do you what you can to save them and let them die peacefully on their own. That is going to be my option when/if I am ever faced with that decision.

Fran
03-27-2010, 10:48 PM
I wouldnt squeeze them. Thats barbarian in my opinion.

Edd Eskimo
03-27-2010, 10:52 PM
Sorry Fran but people are barbaric..We will never change..

Ictinike
03-27-2010, 10:54 PM
Freezing animals is not a painless, nice way to go. Blood and hemolymph will both freeze prior to the loss of concenous and is painful and it is painful prior to the slipping away. Smashing a T is similar to the captive bolt or gun shot that is approved by the AVMA (American Veterinary Medical Association) as a humain, instaneous, humane form of euthanasia. The other option is to cough up a little bit of money and take them to your local exotic's veterinarian for humane euthanasia with anasthetic gas and IV (and in inverts intracoelemic) euthanasia. Would you kill you kitten in the freezer or a hammer to the head?

Again you applying your own HUMAN feelings and reactions to this scenario more so going as far as relating it to a kitten?

Sure being a vertebrate that's not the way to go but honestly many people have been stuck in mountain tops and when recounting the experience, after several live saving surgeries to remove frozen dead extremities, they didn't feel much but more like slipping into unconsciousness and very little pain.

Our HUMAN bodies have a way of, in cases of freezing, shutting down the blood flow to your extremities in a plan to keep the `core` from dying. Blood flow slows to these outer reaches of our bodies and more opting to stay in the chest area to protect the heart and keep it beating. Our breath, as well mental clarity and reasoning, becomes slowed and shallow to also `slow` the dying process.

If it were me I would rather freeze than burn, suffocate, squashed on the road.

Edd Eskimo
03-27-2010, 11:03 PM
If it were me I would rather freeze than burn, suffocate, squashed on the road.

Really...You would rather freeze to death than rather going out in one quick blow...

Ictinike
03-27-2010, 11:08 PM
Really...You would rather freeze to death than rather going out in one quick blow...

And how do you, as a living being, know `one quick blow` isn't painless?

I'm just saying. Everyone always states and assumes these quick blow scenarios are painless. What if they are not?

I know for certain those who've survived a freezing can state it's like going to sleep and you don't feel much or experience much mentally.

I cannot say I've heard any 1 on 1 accounts of someone taking a bullet to the head thinking it was painless.

You get my point :)

BlackCat
03-27-2010, 11:15 PM
I would not be able to just step on one of my T's. I agree with Fran, too barbaric and messy.

Freezing to death, for us, is torture because not only do we have extremities losing circulation, our muscles contract and shiver to generate body heat. That is where the real pain comes from, and tarantulas don't do that.

Good point Ictinike. How do we even know it is an instant death when there are a lot of cases of people surviving a GSW to the head.

Edd Eskimo
03-27-2010, 11:20 PM
LOLz..Yeah I get your point and all..But I guarantee you that freezing to death is far worst..What I was taught is that if one is shot in any region on the T box area on the human body (Eyes and nose) instantly renders the human brain and body useless and causes a quick and painless death because of the rupturing of the medulla oblongata...I believe they would only feel pain that first few seconds but after that it would end...Even thou their body's may react to the nerves, the body can't interpret it as pain due to the fact that the brain is now useless.

CuddlesTheTarantula
03-27-2010, 11:24 PM
I think people are more comfortable with the freezing because it's not as graphic/violent as stepping on them. We're talking about beloved pets, they aren't just "bugs". Would you rather step on a beloved pet that doesn't have the option of traditional veterinarian euthanasia or let it depart this world by being frozen? I think the freezing method makes "us" feel better about it. That's not to say that it's better/worse than the alternative, just the one that we as compassionate caring humans feel better about when faced with such a horrible decision.

Ictinike
03-27-2010, 11:27 PM
LOLz..Yeah I get your point and all..But I guarantee you that freezing to death is far worst..What I was taught is that if one is shot in any region on the T box area on the human body (Eyes and nose) instantly renders the human brain and body useless and causes a quick and painless death because of the rupturing of the medulla oblongata...I believe they would only feel pain that first few seconds but after that it would end...Even thou their body's may react to the nerves, the body can't interpret it as pain due to the fact that the brain is now useless.

Oh I get ya, trust me I do, but freezing is similar. Sure it's much, much more slower but our bodies defense systems kick in and I'm sure you don't feel much pain as our brain shuts down those portions of the body that freeze first from feeling the pain.

Think of it this way too. Going outside on a normal winter day without gloves etc. Your hands will slowly get cold to the point where you know they are cold and they don't function as well but its not really `painful`.

NOW go inside and run those under some normal temp tap water and feel the `needles` as those nerves get awakened by the increase in temperature. I've only really said `ouch` when my hands/feet start to warm up from being in the cold, not when I was getting them cold.

I get ya though but I honestly think freezing is, aside from using CO2, may be the best humane way to end a spider. Again, a lot is not known about this so it's really anyone's guess. I'm also applying `human` feelings to the freezing process as well so I'm just as wrong as everyone :)

Nomadinexile
03-27-2010, 11:30 PM
I think the freezing method makes "us" feel better about it.

That's the point. People freeze to save themselves from the gore. Not save the tarantula from pain or their version of it. It's not humane for them, it's humane to us. But that's not the point is it?

jayefbe
03-27-2010, 11:33 PM
Blood and hemolymph will both freeze prior to the loss of concenous and is painful and it is painful prior to the slipping away.

Hahaha!! Really? Animals remain conscious even when their blood (or hemolymph) has frozen? Really? Uh, I really don't think so.

I think freezing to death could be relatively painful for a vertebrate. A cold-blooded invertebrate? Probably not. There are occurrences of inverts entering a torpid, hibernation-like state when temperature fall below a certain level. Their nervous system is very much unlike ours. I'd be surprised if they feel pain upon cold temperatures in the same way that warm-blooded mammals do. I personally feel that freezing inverts is a humane method of euthanasia.

Fran
03-27-2010, 11:35 PM
That's the point. People freeze to save themselves from the gore. Not save the tarantula from pain or their version of it. It's not humane for them, it's humane to us. But that's not the point is it?

Well.

Being rational and honest; Spiders are not the same as dogs.:The fact that you are saving the spider from a a "painful" nematode infestation slow death, or from a really bad fall, its quite humane enough.


To the spider, quite frankly, it will be pretty much the same to die frozen or smashed. It doesnt have the capacity to have pitty for itself, or to think how horribly painfull is its death.

So from that poing of view, the next step is to make it less painfull for you.
To freeze her is way less horrid than to smash it.
Not to menction the guts all over the place. Way more brutal.

zonbonzovi
03-27-2010, 11:42 PM
Freezing a tarantula that is close to death is actually quite fast. I recently froze an Aphonopelma so that it could be sent to one of the researchers working on taxonomy for this genus. The MM tarantula could no longer "walk without stumbling" and had long since stopped eating. 15 minutes after placing the T at the rear of the freezer, it was very stiff. Not frozen through, mind you, but most certainly dead. There will be, as has already been stated, a wide spectrum of opinions on whether this is appropriate. I say it really depends: some folks will find this abhorrent as they couldn't possibly freeze their "pet". I understand this feeling completely, yet I also realize that a well preserved tarantula gives one an opportunity to study its' physiology up close. This is often impossible while the creature is still living(try inspecting a healthy Haplopelma). Just don't forget to take notes;)

Carrot
03-28-2010, 12:04 AM
Do tarantulas even have the capacity to suffer or feel pain?

While I haven't had a tarantula die from anything other than old age yet (mature males), I'd rather let mine continue to live and give it a chance, no matter how small, to recover from whatever problem it has rather than sticking it in the freezer. Just seems kind of pointless to me unless you're wanting to preserve its body or kill it faster so you can use the cage its in or something.

Though if they can feel pain then it'd make sense to me. :)

Derek P
03-28-2010, 10:50 AM
Again you applying your own HUMAN feelings and reactions to this scenario more so going as far as relating it to a kitten?....Our HUMAN bodies have a way of, in cases of freezing, shutting down the blood flow to your extremities in a plan to keep the `core` from dying. Blood flow slows to these outer reaches of our bodies and more opting to stay in the chest area to protect the heart and keep it beating. Our breath, as well mental clarity and reasoning, becomes slowed and shallow to also `slow` the dying process.....

Not applying human feelings.... applying the reasoning that invertebrates respond to noxious stimuli in a similar response to mammals. Granted I'm making the assumption that this response is 'pain.'

Also the human, and all vertebrates, have a closed circulatory system that allows peripheral vasoconstriction to keep the core alive. Inverts have an open vascular system so this reflex cannot happen. This is not going to cause cerebral hypoxia to 'slow down' mental clarity and reasoning.

Yes blood freezes in the animal prior to death. I'm not saying the entire circulatory system freezes solid, but the microvascualr system and tissues form ice crystals prior to death. There is no reason to believe that hemolymph would not start to crystalize in the extremities prior to death. If Ts can respond to noxious stimuli felt by their feet (ie Grammastola's that stay on the wall of an enclosure b/c they do not 'like' the substrate) why wouldn't they be able to feel this slow freeze process.

Either way, smash or freeze, there is still the option for euthanasia by an exotics veterinarian. The T can be rendered unconscious and pain free followed by an injection of euthanasia. Painless, clean, and humane.

MizM
03-28-2010, 11:04 AM
IMHO, Co2 is a better alternative:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=172350&highlight=euthanize

Stopdroproll
03-28-2010, 12:14 PM
Liquid nitrogen would certainly be a quick death. You can freeze a ball in liquid nitrogen in seconds. Not that it is easy to get access to liquid nitrogen or anything., but it would be quick.

Mack&Cass
03-28-2010, 12:35 PM
IMHO, Co2 is a better alternative:

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=172350&highlight=euthanize

C02 would do a good job of rendering the T unconscious, however, as stated in that thread, it wouldn't do a good job of killing the T as it would take forever. We use C02 to kill our mice for our snakes, and it takes about 10 minutes for it to kill them completely. Tarantulas breathe so passively, that it would take a really long time to actually kill the tarantula. In that thread, it was suggested to use C02 on the T and then put it in the freezer, however, not everyone has access to C02, and if you have it on hand - then go ahead and use that first, but a lot of people don't have C02 readily available. You can make it, but you'd be making a lot.

Of course it would be quick just to drop a brick on a T or whatever, but personally, if it was hard for me to close the freezer door on our P. ornata sling, I don't imagine it being very easy to squish it with something. The question here isn't really which is more humane, it's what do we feel less crappy for doing. Killing any animal voluntarily is a really hard thing to do, no matter how sick they are.

Cass

MizM
03-28-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm a wimp. I can't even kill a rat to feed my boas. If they don't have frozen, I make the pet store kill 'em for me!!!

I regularly let my old male Ts get eaten by the female when they start showing signs of impending death of old age. I feel that is the quickest and most natural way. In 19 years of keeping, I have never euthanized a female, and never will. I always have a teeny little spark of hope that they will make it and just keep trying 'till the end. And from time to time, one will pull through a difficult time and I'm glad I didn't "pull the plug".

Mack&Cass
03-28-2010, 01:07 PM
I'm a wimp. I can't even kill a rat to feed my boas. If they don't have frozen, I make the pet store kill 'em for me!!!

I regularly let my old male Ts get eaten by the female when they start showing signs of impending death of old age. I feel that is the quickest and most natural way. In 19 years of keeping, I have never euthanized a female, and never will. I always have a teeny little spark of hope that they will make it and just keep trying 'till the end. And from time to time, one will pull through a difficult time and I'm glad I didn't "pull the plug".

I hear ya on that one. We do both ways of accepted euthanasia in Canada: cervical dislocation and CO2. We (and by we, I mean Mackenzie) only do cervical dislocation when we're only killing one or two mice. If we're killing a lot, we'll use the gas chamber (which is really just a rubbermaid tub with a CO2 tank attached). I have no problem putting them in the 'chamber', however, I can't even watch Mackenzie do cervical dislocation, let alone do it myself.

I think that's the difference too, one way (gassing) you're kind of indirectly killing them, and the other way (cervical dislocation) you're actually doing the physical act of killing them. Not everyone is cut out for that. Luckily, Mackenzie is, or I'd be breaking out the gas chamber even if I only needed to kill one mouse.

It's the same with Ts, we can't really say which way is more humane, but putting them in the freezer would be the indirect way, and stepping on them would be the direct physical way. Like I said, it all boils down to which way makes you feel less crappy for having to end their life.

Cass

gvfarns
03-28-2010, 01:10 PM
We don't know that CO2 actually renders them unconscious. We only know that it prevents them from moving. It could well just paralyze them.

Freezing to death is not the same for a T as it is for a mammal. Their body doesn't shiver and feel uncomfortable like ours does. Their processes just slow down until they stop. It's as likely to be anesthetic as CO2 is.

Furthermore, it is likely that tarantulas do not feel pain. Their brains are very, very primitive by comparison with us and other mammals.

Freezing is widely accepted as humane and is the most convenient way to kill a T. Arguments against it pretty much always rest on making false comparisons to how we would experience it. Just as solitary confinement and boredom are not cruel to tarantulas, as they would be for us, freezing them is not either.

MizM
03-28-2010, 01:11 PM
...Like I said, it all boils down to which way makes you feel less crappy for having to end their life.

Cass

Which I feel totally silly about, because snakes eat mice in the wild every day and it's totally natural!!

codykrr
03-28-2010, 10:32 PM
what about boiling water? that would be quick...

they do it to hundreds and thousands of lobsters each year....its pretty much instant.


i mean..i havent put a T down..but im definatly not going to squish it...the mess. and after all. it is just a bug. as much as you all dont want to hear that...its true.

i wont freeze mice though. i have a C02 chamber for that. nice and quick.

and id rather be froze to death for the record. or randomly murdered by gunshot or hot girls molesting me to death. but thats me.

Ictinike
03-28-2010, 11:06 PM
and id rather be froze to death for the record. or randomly murdered by gunshot or hot girls molesting me to death. but thats me.

Touche Cody with a C :worship:

endoflove
03-28-2010, 11:30 PM
freezing it is the way i went with my T. i miss him but it was his time and he wasent getting anybetter...fungi started to eat him alive ! but thats a story for another day. just do it like old yeller :)

cacoseraph
03-29-2010, 12:35 AM
i'm not even bothering to read past the first five or so posts


do some research on pain threads. look at the hippy undereducated yabo posts from ppl who just know that their spider can feel pain... and um, look at the science




but if you want to be that masochistic to yourself and to be worried about something this silly... the hammer thing is your best bet. or a big fire cracker. but all you... folks want your cake and to eat it too. the answers that are scientifically the best are not palatable to you. making the silly assumption spiders feel pain... the best way to make a painless kill is utterly and instantly scramble their ganglia. that's going to make a mess and make you feel sad. but it would be the best way to make it "painless"



lol. i need a super derisive smiley

codykrr
03-29-2010, 12:37 AM
Touche Cody with a C :worship:

LOL...wouldnt that be nice:wicked:

Hedorah99
03-29-2010, 03:33 PM
I'm always hearing about bleach and ammonia mixing to create Chlorine gas. Though I guess it'd be impractical to use something you need special containers and safety precautions for.

Unless you feel like taking the risk of accidentally killing yourself and anyone else in the house or surroundings, I wouldn't try this one!

cacoseraph
03-29-2010, 04:26 PM
lol

the chlorine thing is a horrible idea unless you really know what you are doing.


you can easily melt plastic bottles and stuff like that, iirc it's a fairly exothermic reaction. or to spell it out for those sounding it out at home... i believe it gets really hot. hot like fire

i've done it before to clean certain things and it is certainly doable if you freaking read up on it first. it wasn't even that hard... but suprisingly enough, you can make bad mistakes with a highly toxic, heavier than air (iirc), caustic gas.



unless you mix a lot or have abnormally potent reactants you probably wouldn't make enough gas to really do a lot of collateral damage... but it would probably gas *you* out rather annoyingly, stink, and possibly bubble over and wreck a bit of near stuff. and it definitely isn't something to mix up in your basement


also, i am pretty sure the bug would "go insane" where you to chlorine gas attack it. dropping them in pretty high % rubbing alcohol makes them convulse and spasm pretty crazily for a surprising (to me) amount of time






if one were really that concerned i would just look up the stuff that the butterflies guys stamp their catches with. they don't want the wing scales to get damaged *at all*, so likely it will make you all feel all warm and fuzzy about the whole thing. of course, if you do believe bugs are advanced enough to feel pain you probably should know that in high animals their are usually three phase anesthetics applied for general surgical anesthesia. 1) a paralytic to hold the patient in place 2) a anesthetic to remove the pain and 3) a sedative to knock them out. i hope you can see how if you are actually not applying all three it would be a most grotesque way to die. if you believe you need to humanely kill bugs and are smart enough my little spiel should give you some nice nightmares. thanks for enjoying the show and *do* try to do the prereading before coming to class next time.

jonnyquong
03-29-2010, 04:46 PM
I'm always hearing about bleach and ammonia mixing to create Chlorine gas. Though I guess it'd be impractical to use something you need special containers and safety precautions for.

Always hearing??? :? (it was used as a chemical weapon during World War I and later by Nazi Germany in World War II) :barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:
Probably not only not a very good idea, a pretty dangerous one.
:shame: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!!! :shame:

CO2 is safer, and you can make it at home. Won't burn you, blind you, or blow up your house. Just place the spider in a container and replace the oxygen with CO2. :) Night night.

Jon

Mack&Cass
03-29-2010, 05:41 PM
Always hearing??? :? (it was used as a chemical weapon during World War I and later by Nazi Germany in World War II) :barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:
Probably not only not a very good idea, a pretty dangerous one.
:shame: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!!! :shame:

CO2 is safer, and you can make it at home. Won't burn you, blind you, or blow up your house. Just place the spider in a container and replace the oxygen with CO2. :) Night night.

Jon

Just have a book ready with you to read so you don't fall asleep waiting for the CO2 to kill your T. Ts breathe so passively that using CO2 to kill the tarantula would take an extremely long time. I'm not saying which method is right or wrong, but I don't recommend using CO2, just due to the fact that it would take forever. Also, if you're making it yourself, you'd have to make a ton of it. If you have a CO2 tank, it would use a lot of it, and around here it costs $40 to fill a CO2 tank, so it would be better just to put it in the freezer. At least then, too, you can leave it in overnight and know that it will be dead. If you take a T out of whatever you're using to CO2 it, it's possible that it could just be unconscious/paralyzed and you'd be throwing out a T that isn't dead. Just my opinion.

Cass

Scorpendra
03-29-2010, 07:57 PM
the chlorine thing is a horrible idea unless you really know what you are doing.

you can easily melt plastic bottles and stuff like that, iirc it's a fairly exothermic reaction. or to spell it out for those sounding it out at home... i believe it gets really hot. hot like fire

i've done it before to clean certain things and it is certainly doable if you freaking read up on it first. it wasn't even that hard... but suprisingly enough, you can make bad mistakes with a highly toxic, heavier than air (iirc), caustic gas.

unless you mix a lot or have abnormally potent reactants you probably wouldn't make enough gas to really do a lot of collateral damage... but it would probably gas *you* out rather annoyingly, stink, and possibly bubble over and wreck a bit of near stuff. and it definitely isn't something to mix up in your basement



Always hearing??? :? (it was used as a chemical weapon during World War I and later by Nazi Germany in World War II) :barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:
Probably not only not a very good idea, a pretty dangerous one.
:shame: DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!!! :shame:
For quickly killing specimens for insect collections. It's a bit of a...different...context, and I've never done it, but I have heard about using Cl2 for a killing jar if you know what you're doing. I'm not advocating it, of course; I said in my post that you'd need all kinds of precautions which would make the process cumbersome and likely not worth all the effort in the end. I was just thinking out loud (so to speak). If you inhale it or get it in your eyes or anything like that, it mixes with the water in the mucous membrane to create hydrochloric acid. Which is why it's bad, not because Nazis touched it ;)



if one were really that concerned i would just look up the stuff that the butterflies guys stamp their catches with. they don't want the wing scales to get damaged *at all*, so likely it will make you all feel all warm and fuzzy about the whole thing.
Ethyl acetate. They still spasm, though. And that bumblebee of mine still has a wet look on its thorax..though I guess that doesn't matter in this situation.


There we are making the mistake comparing them with us.

Its irrational to say "I would rather". You are a human being with an inteligence. A lot of things go thru your mind if you were freezing to death, way more than if you just suddenly die. But in terms of spiders...Cold temps slow them down, we dont know if they even suffer at all with that method and just simply get lethargic and die in a "sleeping way alike situation.

Squeezing them might be not painfull for them too (we dont know either) but for god sakes is way more disgusting and painfull to look at.
It just doesnt seem too civilized, if you ask me.

+1. Seriously...How about you run over your dog when it's time for it to be put down? If you're willing to do something like that, it's a testament to how little you cared about the animal from the get-go. I know the analogy's a little off since I'm comparing a dog and a T, but that's not the point. If you can't give emotional value to your possessions, that's another problem entirely.

I'm not going to get into my own personal tastes about T euthanasia. Only that I wouldn't smash it with a hammer, stomp on it, light it on fire, or anything else that sounds like it came from an arachnophobe.

curiousme
03-29-2010, 08:35 PM
Didn't we just have a long thread about this?:?

I don't feel like there is a need to euthanize a cold blooded arachnid. They are not human and you cannot simply put your feelings on to them. I would do everything in my power to help the T make it through, but nature will take its course; without me killing my own pet.



(edited to add a big +1 to all of cacoseraph's posts)

sAdam
03-29-2010, 08:46 PM
take em out back like Old Yeller and use a 30-30, or maybe a 12 bore if its a blondi or sumthin

cacoseraph
03-29-2010, 10:01 PM
(edited to add a big +1 to all of cacoseraph's posts)
*you* would have said it in a much nicer manner, i am quite sure =P





take em out back like Old Yeller and use a 30-30, or maybe a 12 bore if its a blondi or sumthin

heh

if you blast their kinda central ganglia that is a very good suggestion. all firearm safety stuff aside, of course.






with the understanding that i believe, of coure, it is idiotic to make the assumption they feel pain, but aside from that...
really... you have no guarantee with any of your sissy slow methods that it is painless. they only SEEM nicer because you don't really understand how bugs work. i do. i've told you a couple ways that work for actually doing it "painlessly" but no, the ppl still looking actually just want a method that lets them feel nice w/o actually caring about the science behind it

and i bet the nancy posters aren't even reading my posts all the way, or understanding them if they do read them.. so i don't even get to make them feel bad. oh well... *i'm* still having fun =P

Arakatac
05-02-2010, 11:54 AM
Hey all you Dr Kevorkians out there (and I say that with a wink) - With all this talk of nerve gas and freezers and sledge hammers, I understand everybody wants to do what's best for the spider, but I believe that the most appropriate way to go, as unpalatable as it seems to be to everybody, is to let nature take its course.

Mad Hatter
05-02-2010, 02:51 PM
I believe that the most appropriate way to go, as unpalatable as it seems to be to everybody, is to let nature take its course.

You and I agree on that...

I was surprised to see this thread back on the first page.

pwilson5
05-02-2010, 03:08 PM
ok so i havnt seen it mentioned... but what about flash freezing them?

upside-down office duster... can flash freeze them in an instant.. would kill them a load quicker than the freezer and leave the body in tact if you wanted to preserve your T

scar is my t
05-02-2010, 03:29 PM
How on earth does anyone think freezing something to death(not instantaneous) is more humane than stepping on them? I hate the thought of having to do it, but it sure seems more logical.

I've been lucky though and haven't ever had a situation arise that came to this end result.

How about lighting them on fire? I'm just sayin'!! If your willing to freeze your T's to death you might as well go to the other extreme and let 'em go out in a blaze of glory. I personally wouldn't want to die either of these two ways. I'll take a bullet to the head any day.(foot stomp for T's)

Good idea. I might do the same and cook it and eat it kinda to remember it in some weird way..... More likely I would do what people do to kill Mealworms for bird food. Put it in scortching hot water. Hopefully get it hot enough to kill it instantly so you can save the body and have it be painless.

What
05-02-2010, 03:58 PM
ok so i havnt seen it mentioned... but what about flash freezing them?

upside-down office duster... can flash freeze them in an instant.. would kill them a load quicker than the freezer and leave the body in tact if you wanted to preserve your T
Having frozen parts of skin and such accidentally... I really dont think you could flash freeze a T very quickly with one, and you would blow right through the abdomen with one.

IMO, the correct procedure for freezing a T should be to put it in an opaque sealed container, then into the fridge for 30-40 mins. From there into the freezer. This lowers the Ts body temperature to the point that they are not active and will not thrash around upon being put directly into a cold environment. But that is just my opinion...