Deformities in B. discoidales

Hey guys! I've been having problems with my discoids. As of the last 2 weeks, I've been noticing adults and one nymph with wing deformities. Mostly like they had a bad moult and come out looking crunched up. Needless to say these deformed roaches don't last very long. I've been noticing the occasional one or two each time I check. Total I think there have been about 4-6 deformed ones which I've found in a colony of about 100 or so adults. I thought it was the amount of protein as I was giving them a diet with more cereal and less dog food but have since switched back to ground dog food (protein min 21%).
I've read that some promote good dog food and even cat food for higher protein. I know CM thinks that too much protein isn't good but I think some species require more. I'm just not sure if discoids are one of them. Is that advisable to add more protein in their diets? My hissers and lobster roaches seem fine. Could it be that the discoids require a lil more protein in their diets. I'm also suspecting that they have been cannibalising on the nymphs as I find newborns and find 5th instars onwards but nothing in between. The more I say it, it sounds like a protein deficiency but I just wanna be sure before I change their diet. Just in case I kill off my colony. Thanks guys!

Vanan

P.S. BTW, they're being kept warm and pretty dry (on peat moss) with a water dish of them crystal gel thingies. Temps are around 90-94F.

Inbreeding perhaps? I"m not at all sure how that works with insects

I think that protien may be the issue, but what may be happening is adults, hungry for protien, ar nibbling on nymphs during or following a molt. This is going to be fatal to little ones, but for adults it may just result in misshappen wings, etc.

If I remember correctly, Code Monkey's comments were specifically about cat food. Apparently, cat food is much higher in protien than dog food, especially if you get the cheapest generic dog food you can, which has a lot of corn and other grains as filler. This seems to offer a pretty balanced diet for these scavangers.

I use unmedicated chick starter mash myself. It's largely grain based, but also contains adaquate protien. It comes in a granular form, so no need for further processing. Mine breed like gangbusters.

Wade

Wild type diets tend to be less than 10% protein and given a choice of carbohydrate rich food (e.g. a sticky bun) verus protein rich food (e.g. bacon) the roaches will choose the sticky bun with a preference of something on the order of 200 to 1.

Dog foods are in the 15%-20% protein range on average, which is higher than wild type but obviously fine - it's what roaches are reared on in labs all over the world. What is not used is, as Wade pointed out, is cat food which ranges as high as 28%-32% protein.

The deformities you describe could be from nibbling shortly after moulting or they could also be due to some sort of juvenile growth hormone analogue present in their environment - although it's unlikely if it's only a few individuals.

OTOH, if it is just a few individuals there may be nothing wrong at all - there's always going to be some mistakes or injuries. It's when it becomes a major pattern that I would get concerned.

Thanks for the replies guys! CM, you may be right, it might just be a small minority and nothing to worry about. I'm just paranoid.

Malkavian, there might be a possibility of inbreeding expressing itself with these "mutants". My current colony is based only on a handful (<15). We had a major crash of the colony when we moved. On the other hand, my smaller lobster colony started with only 5 adults (I think there were 3males and 2females) and it's going strong. Then again they're lobsters!

I think the action plan is gonna be to add more greens and fruit in their diet (I've been slacking on that part ) and do a few kibbles of cat food once a week. Just to rule out the possibility of a protein deficiency and at the same time not kill em with too much.

I guess it's safe to say that the only commonly kept roach species which requires a higher level of protein would be the orange heads?

Thanks once again guys!

parrot food for roaches

I'm having real good luck feeding my discoids parrot food..dry kibble parrot food(yes parrots eat dry kibble...better diet than seed).It's "high performance" Tropican parrot food.I think a parrot would have a more closely related diet to that of a roach than a dog to a roach.It's also very high in protein coming in around 21%.All my roaches are fat healthy and showing no signs of deformities/being chewed upon.They love it also as I have to replace frequently.Give it a try...peace

I breed B. Discoids..............

I have seen very few deformities, and all these are non- lethal, except one. I believe it could be 2 reasons for what you are seeing.

1. Could be just a statistical event, a deformity, when you are hatching in the hundreds.

2. I have witnessed my Discoids having some skirmishes, and it always involves mature males battling for dominance. They chase each other around, and one is always the victor, and chases the other one away. I assume the dominant male is the most successful breeder, and I always see increased breeding activity after these "battles". After some of these "battles", the losing male sometimes has damaged wings, and after a shed, it would happen much easier.

Or maybe they are too crowded, and after a shed this happens in cramped conditions. In my exp., Discoids are adaptable to many different diets, and though they seem to like more protein than some think, they do not require as much protein as the Eublaberus. I feed mine similar diets as Wade and Code, mainly alternating between chicken mash, and dog food. Neither seem to care much for greens, though the Discoids will occasionally eat sweet potatoes or cantalope. I doubt the problems you are seeing is due to lack of protein.

I have seen no evidence of cannibalism among discoids, except once I saw babies eating on an infertile eggcase, and I believe this can be avoided with heavy feeding.