Snake Cage Heating Question

BQC123 · Oct 10, 2011

I am building a new snake cage and had a technical question regarding heating. The cage will be 6' x 2' x 13" tall and be made from 3/4" MDF, covered with waterproof contact paper inside. It will be divided into four compartments, 18"x 24" each, with sliding glass fronts. I wanted to use Flexwatt in a groove machined into the floor, covered with tileboard, and sealed. Flexwatt says this is fine, and I will be using a thermostat or rheostat. My question is what size to get. I intend to use Flexwatt as the only heat source. Bulbs or ceramic emitters worry me due to the height, and I dont want to use four, seperate heat panels or mats. Normally I would try several sizes out, but once assembled it will be a huge project to change it.
The snakes will all be colubrids. Room temp is never below 65 F at night, higher during the day, but supplemental heat will be needed.
Anybody have any experience with this, or any good suggestions?

The Snark · Oct 10, 2011

Just some random thinks.
MDF, I believe, is formed with formaldehyde glue which constantly leeches out as a gas. Bad news poison. Do some research on your construction materials.
Four compartments, 4 thermostats and 4 heaters. If this is a major investment, 8 heaters, 4 are redundant: should one burn out you don't have to rip the whole thing apart. Strip/plate heaters are, or should be, very cheap, as are thermostats.

Oh yes... rheostat, a voltage divider, burns power constantly. A good thermostat should do the job. If a thermostat is deemed unnecessary, use simple light dimmers, triac operated wave choppers. Much more energy efficient.

pitbulllady · Oct 10, 2011

BQC123 said:
I am building a new snake cage and had a technical question regarding heating. The cage will be 6' x 2' x 13" tall and be made from 3/4" MDF, covered with waterproof contact paper inside. It will be divided into four compartments, 18"x 24" each, with sliding glass fronts. I wanted to use Flexwatt in a groove machined into the floor, covered with tileboard, and sealed. Flexwatt says this is fine, and I will be using a thermostat or rheostat. My question is what size to get. I intend to use Flexwatt as the only heat source. Bulbs or ceramic emitters worry me due to the height, and I dont want to use four, seperate heat panels or mats. Normally I would try several sizes out, but once assembled it will be a huge project to change it.
The snakes will all be colubrids. Room temp is never below 65 F at night, higher during the day, but supplemental heat will be needed.
Anybody have any experience with this, or any good suggestions?

If the snakes are native, temperate-region Colubrids, I don't see why you will need supplemental heat, other than perhaps at night. I'd use undertank heat in that case, to provide some extra "belly warmth", especially after feeding. During the day you should not need heat if your household temperature is around 72-75 degrees. I've never used Flexiwatt, so I can't help you there. I never have used supplemental heat on native Colubrids of any kind, anyway, except for desert species like Gray-Bands and Western Coachwhips. All of my native species are still active and still eating, and it dips down to around 65 at night in my room, which is also the snake room. They all stopped feeding temporarily during the heat wave this summer, when even with central AC, it rarely dropped below 80 in here. The snakes didn't like those temps anymore than I did! I find most native wild snakes in the evenings and early morning hours during the spring, and I've caught several Corns in late fall with the temps in the upper 40's!

pitbulllady

The Snark · Oct 10, 2011

pitbulllady said:
The snakes didn't like those temps anymore than I did! [pitbulllady

(Wuss! It managed to get down to 70 last night. I had to break out a long sleeved shirt.) I'm reminded of 'grandpa' up at the snake center. An antique 20' python. Every now and then they have to go into his enclosure and drag his 200 or so pounds into a sunny spot so he can get warm enough to munch his chickens.

catfishrod69 · Oct 10, 2011

70? long sleeve shirt? man....i go squirrel hunting in the winter when its snowing, and only have on a t-shirt....flexwatt is an amazing thing...if you do use it, what do you mean by what size? the legnth? or width? or wattage?

The Snark · Oct 10, 2011

catfishrod69 said:
70? long sleeve shirt? man....i go squirrel hunting in the winter when its snowing, and only have on a t-shirt....flexwatt is an amazing thing...if you do use it, what do you mean by what size? the legnth? or width? or wattage?

But I'm an ectotherm! Is flexiwatt that thin flexible plastic plate thing?

BQC123 · Oct 11, 2011

catfishrod69 said:
what do you mean by what size? the legnth? or width? or wattage?

I was referring to the width/wattage. I've decided to go with the 3" because it will be easier to install. I was just wondering if 11" would be better. If needed I will add a strip of 11" across the back, but don't believe I will need to. Besides, so much heat is wasted when used this way.

pitbulllady said:
I've never used Flexiwatt, so I can't help you there. I never have used supplemental heat on native Colubrids of any kind, anyway, except for desert species like Gray-Bands and Western Coachwhips. All of my native species are still active and still eating, and it dips down to around 65 at night in my room, which is also the snake room.
pitbulllady

I've read many of your posts, and am always amazed that you don't use supplemental heat. Ther is no doubting the success you have had, it just goes against common practice. Of course, given a thermal gradient, most snakes find an area of the cage that they are comfortable in, and spend most of their time in that spot. I have temporarily kept snakes without supplemental, but was always worried about not providing a warm spot. I also do tend to keep babies in a suitably warm area of the room without any supplemental heat due to the large number of cages and the problem of heating them all. They have all thrived, so it obviously works. I absolutely see the logic in how you keep them, but I have a hard time changing after all these years!

The Snark said:
Just some random thinks.
MDF, I believe, is formed with formaldehyde glue which constantly leeches out as a gas. Bad news poison. Do some research on your construction materials.
Four compartments, 4 thermostats and 4 heaters. If this is a major investment, 8 heaters, 4 are redundant: should one burn out you don't have to rip the whole thing apart. Strip/plate heaters are, or should be, very cheap, as are thermostats.

Oh yes... rheostat, a voltage divider, burns power constantly. A good thermostat should do the job. If a thermostat is deemed unnecessary, use simple light dimmers, triac operated wave choppers. Much more energy efficient.

Very good points.
I was actually going to use a thermostat, but thought I might wire in a light dimmer and see how that worked first. No major animal investment at all, but I agree with redundant equipment in such a case. I don't like to go cheap with my animals, but can't see a large investment for a few corn and milk snakes. My split arboreal cage uses a Helix thermostat and radiant heat panels. I just don't feel that is required here. The setup I am planning is simply more convenient than individual glass aquariums, each with it's own thermostat and heating source.
As for the formaldehyde, that could be a thread of it's own. MDF is used in floor underlayment, furniture, and countertops, to name a few things. It is also used in melamine, one of the more common cage construction materials. Many other construction products also contain formaldehyde. It is also found, in carpet, foam in cushions, fiberglass, permanent press fabrics, paper products, household cleaners, shampoos, medicines, disinfectants, and tobacco products, which we know are bad. It is a byproduct of cumbustion, so gas burners, fireplaces, and even pilot lights contribute to the formaldehyde in the air. There is a greater danger from exposure to the dust while working with MDF. I do intend to seal the MDF, and to then cover that with contact paper for cosmetic reasons. The increased heat from the Flexwatt is a concern as formaldehyde outgasses more with heat and humidity. Since you have brought up a very valid point, I am thinking about getting a formaldehyde test kit, and checking the level in the cage over time.
And yes, the Flexwatt is a flexible, plastic heat tape that you buy by the foot, cut to fit, and wire up.

Thanks to all for the replies.

catfishrod69 · Oct 11, 2011

yeah flexwatt is like plastic paper with thni flat heating elements running through it...

The Snark said:
But I'm an ectotherm! Is flexiwatt that thin flexible plastic plate thing?

---------- Post added 10-11-2011 at 03:28 PM ----------

well you really need to go by how deep your tanks are...you will need a third of the bottom covered by heat, so if its 33" deep then the 11" is perfect...3" is gonna be pretty small..but if you are just keeping small corns or something then it would probably be ok...

BQC123 said:
I was referring to the width/wattage. I've decided to go with the 3" because it will be easier to install. I was just wondering if 11" would be better. If needed I will add a strip of 11" across the back, but don't believe I will need to. Besides, so much heat is wasted when used this way.

I've read many of your posts, and am always amazed that you don't use supplemental heat. Ther is no doubting the success you have had, it just goes against common practice. Of course, given a thermal gradient, most snakes find an area of the cage that they are comfortable in, and spend most of their time in that spot. I have temporarily kept snakes without supplemental, but was always worried about not providing a warm spot. I also do tend to keep babies in a suitably warm area of the room without any supplemental heat due to the large number of cages and the problem of heating them all. They have all thrived, so it obviously works. I absolutely see the logic in how you keep them, but I have a hard time changing after all these years!

Very good points.
I was actually going to use a thermostat, but thought I might wire in a light dimmer and see how that worked first. No major animal investment at all, but I agree with redundant equipment in such a case. I don't like to go cheap with my animals, but can't see a large investment for a few corn and milk snakes. My split arboreal cage uses a Helix thermostat and radiant heat panels. I just don't feel that is required here. The setup I am planning is simply more convenient than individual glass aquariums, each with it's own thermostat and heating source.
As for the formaldehyde, that could be a thread of it's own. MDF is used in floor underlayment, furniture, and countertops, to name a few things. It is also used in melamine, one of the more common cage construction materials. Many other construction products also contain formaldehyde. It is also found, in carpet, foam in cushions, fiberglass, permanent press fabrics, paper products, household cleaners, shampoos, medicines, disinfectants, and tobacco products, which we know are bad. It is a byproduct of cumbustion, so gas burners, fireplaces, and even pilot lights contribute to the formaldehyde in the air. There is a greater danger from exposure to exposure to the dust while working with MDF. I do intend to seal the MDF, and to then cover that with contact paper for cosmetic reasons. The increased heat from the Flexwatt is a concern as formaldehyde outgasses more with heat and humidity. Since you have brought up a very valid point, I am thinking about getting a formaldehyde test kit, and checking the level in the cage over time.
And yes, the Flexwatt is a flexible, plastic heat tape that you buy by the foot, cut to fit, and wire up.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Snake Cage Heating Question

BQC123

Arachnobaron

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods

pitbulllady

Arachnoking

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods

catfishrod69

Arachnoemperor

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods

BQC123

Arachnobaron

catfishrod69

Arachnoemperor