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View Full Version : cactus can they be put with T's?



benoliver
01-22-2012, 02:19 PM
is there a form a cactus that i can put with my little G. rosea? i am trying to give my little rosea a little better environment to live in. or is it a bad idea because of the needles of the plant.

Formerphobe
01-22-2012, 02:26 PM
Cacti in T tank is generally bad idea.

grayzone
01-22-2012, 02:28 PM
^ i agree....ts may encounter cacti in the wild, however, in a tank i see too much wrong that can happen

MB623
01-22-2012, 02:31 PM
is there a form a cactus that i can put with my little G. rosea? i am trying to give my little rosea a little better environment to live in. or is it a bad idea because of the needles of the plant.I'm not sure what kind of cacti or the care of the cactus, but I'd be worried about the T walking on the glass or the lid of the tank and falling on the cactus.

grayzone
01-22-2012, 02:33 PM
ouch... idk why but i just thought of mortal kombat....

Pavlor
01-22-2012, 02:41 PM
I'd be more worried about the shit that might be in the soil. Why not a plastic one, or a cactus that has soft spikes (but change the potting soil first to one that has no chemicals in it...)?

desertanimal
01-22-2012, 03:43 PM
A few of the Mammillaria sp. have thorns that are sufficiently curved that they aren't actually pokey. They form a nice shadescreen for the cactus, but you could pick them up barehanded without getting pricked. But not all of them do. Most of them still have some thorns that stick out past the non-prickly protective "coat" of thorns. So you'd want to see the cactus first.

pavel
01-22-2012, 03:48 PM
Cacti are not suited to be terrarium plants. You'd be better off for the T and the plant to just get a plastic one.

Crysta
01-22-2012, 04:07 PM
what is with all the dis on the cactus plants? Why not reccomond another dessert plant?
If you have enough soil in the tank you don't really need to worry about the tarantula falling on the plant and killing itself, oh gosh, what would i do if it fell on its waterdish?
lol

If we all want to be boring and use fake plants..sure you can...but having life plants adds another interesting element to tarantula keeping...

Heres a good desert plant for rosies...and these are hardy.. succulents are wonderful little things. Do some research on how to plant them. Make the planted tank, put some crickets in the tank for 2 weeks, if they don't die, introduce the tarantula after. (remember to feed the crickets...) You will need to include a light during the day, but thats cool <3

http://www.carolsimsartist.com/images-10-06/DS-cactus,rocks,sedums.jpg
http://img4.southernliving.com/i/2005/08/heavy-savy/plants-m.jpg?300:300

grayzone
01-22-2012, 04:16 PM
thanks crysta, i do know a bit about succulents, and have yet to use one in a ts enclosure... ill have to try it.. i have a type of palm in one of my enclosures and it has never caused problems. it took a fall from a bathroom window one day.. and ended up as t decor. apparently it doesn't need much light and can grow in coco fiber. I wish i knew what it is.

pavel
01-22-2012, 04:55 PM
The problem arises, Crysta, if one actually cares how the plants fare. If not, then there really are a lot of options. If one does care about how the plants fare, then there are no real options in the cacti & succulent category. They require excellant air circulation, high light for healthy growth (which unfortunately tends to make one's tank too warm), and watering is a pain in the butt. Their requirements simply are not conducive to terrarium life.

Crysta
01-22-2012, 05:15 PM
The problem arises, Crysta, if one actually cares how the plants fare. If not, then there really are a lot of options. If one does care about how the plants fare, then there are no real options in the cacti & succulent category. They require excellant air circulation, high light for healthy growth (which unfortunately tends to make one's tank too warm, and watering is a pain in the butt. Their requirements simply are not conducive to terrarium life.

... they don't need that high of heat, they just grow slower... High light can be found in nice leds, that dont tend to give off much heat either... which plants do well on. Succulents come in all shapes and form, and there are many house succulents that live indoors which you can use for a tank, such as a rosy..rosies tend not to go and destroy the plant like heavier webbin' t's.

web eviction
01-22-2012, 05:43 PM
Haha both my Rosie's bulldoze everything in the tank and bury it...

Hornets inverts
01-22-2012, 05:43 PM
Unfortunately live plants dont do too well in arid enclosures, its not only the matter of lighting but moisture, drainage and humidity are also big things that need to be taken into consideration. In an arid style enclosure you cant really keep both t's and plants happy in the long term

Crysta
01-22-2012, 05:53 PM
Going to use abraxas as an example....
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?176413-AbraxasComplex-s-Invert-and-Vivarium-Picture-Thread

more pinpointed to g. rosea
http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?176413-AbraxasComplex-s-Invert-and-Vivarium-Picture-Thread&p=1672223&viewfull=1#post1672223

http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz275/AbraxasComplex/15.jpg

Also, he has an M. balfouri setup that is quite amazing as well, but I can't seem to find pictures of his setup...

It does require steps for a person to set up a good base for the plant to grow, but once its setup up its not really a problem...

pavel
01-22-2012, 08:42 PM
No Crysta, the LEDs currently out are not sufficient -- not those that come in a white light spectrum. The only LED setups which do provide sufficient light in usable wavelengths of appropriate intensity result in a very purple light.

When I mentioned heat, I was referring to an undesirable result for the temps in the enclosure due to the lighting needed. Again, if you really don't care about the plants welfare -- and as the T is your primary concern that would be completely understandable -- then again you have lots of options. However, getting a succulent to thrive in an enclosure is not likely to happen. Furthermore, other issues such as air circulation and humidity are common problems and not minor ones at that.

One solution, besides going artificial, is to have several of the same plant and rotate them out of the enclosure on a weekly basis -- one week in, one or two weeks on a bright window ledge.

Shrike
01-22-2012, 08:55 PM
Those are amazing terrariums that Abraxas has, but I have to wonder how long the succulents thrived after the initial set up. I'm not saying it can't be done, but meeting the ideal light requirements for the genus Crassula, for example, is going to be a tall order in a tarantula enclosure. That being said, I prefer live plants to fake any day. No arguments there!

grayzone
01-22-2012, 08:58 PM
Unfortunately live plants dont do too well in arid enclosures, its not only the matter of lighting but moisture, drainage and humidity are also big things that need to be taken into consideration. In an arid style enclosure you cant really keep both t's and plants happy in the long term tell that to the palm thats been in one of my enclosures for around a year

njnolan1
01-22-2012, 09:06 PM
Just get a plastic plant, although your Rose would probably prefer you didn't.

macj1983
01-23-2012, 12:16 AM
Check these out might like these. They use the air in the tank. Dust dead insect duct to live .Tillandsia there are like 500plus sp. they might work

Ultum4Spiderz
01-23-2012, 12:26 AM
Any sharp pointy object , plant , in a Ts enclosure can prove deadly if the T falls on top of it... Cactus are a bad idea...
Pothos plants / fake plants only ones I suggest

xhexdx
01-23-2012, 05:32 AM
Pothos plants / fake plants only ones I suggest

Good thing I don't listen to you.

There are many other live plants that work just fine.

Tarac
01-23-2012, 09:27 AM
Be aware that many succulents are not really arid plants. Many are alpine, don't like heat, don't like humidity out of season, etc. etc. True cacti are new world with one exception, an epiphytic Rhipsalis species (and even many true cacti are alpine), try going with old world succulents like things in Euphorbiaceae especially or going after one of the tropical epiphytic cacti such as the aforementioned Rhipsalis which grow in forest canopy and thus do not require much light and also enjoy humidity. Most are not terribly spiny if at all.

A lot of the OW succulents will do OK as houseplants and can be pruned into shape if you are able to find the right species locally. Most do require pretty decent light. "Succulents" are tricky though, you really have to know what you are buying and that it is correctly identified by the seller. More often than not you are buying something that won't tolerate warmth and humidity at once since most growers are located in cooler parts of the country. Don't be fooled by Lowes and Home Depot succulents, they generally do abysmally without strict attention to their seasonal requirements. They're much more diverse then they are reputed to be, just do some research on specific plants before trying to use them or you may just end up with a pile of succulent mush in your tank.

Hornets inverts
01-23-2012, 09:45 AM
tell that to the palm thats been in one of my enclosures for around a year

In a dry setup? I guess there are some more arid palms around but from my experience they seem to be the more spikey ones. Palms are a great plant to use in setups with a little more moisture and even though most of them will outgrow all by the very largest vivarium most of the more suitable species are fairly slow growing and can last years in a viv

xhexdx
01-23-2012, 10:05 AM
tell that to the palm thats been in one of my enclosures for around a year

Have you got a pic of this? I'd be curious to see what species of palm you're using and maybe consider incorporating them into my own vivaria if it's feasible.

Thanks.



Just get a plastic plant, although your Rose would probably prefer you didn't.

Actually, the spider probably wouldn't know the difference.

AbraxasComplex
01-23-2012, 01:55 PM
Those are amazing terrariums that Abraxas has, but I have to wonder how long the succulents thrived after the initial set up. I'm not saying it can't be done, but meeting the ideal light requirements for the genus Crassula, for example, is going to be a tall order in a tarantula enclosure. That being said, I prefer live plants to fake any day. No arguments there!

The succulants in the G.rosea enclosure thrived for a couple years... until I moved. The window that it was in before was west facing and now I only have a north facing one. At the moment it is starting to adjust, but is looking quite poor. There are some species of Sansevieria that will do great in arrid enclosures. A few select species do not get over 8'' and can handle low to high light conditions as well as sparse waterings.

Currently my Monocentropus balfouri tank has a thriving selection of Sansevieria as well as another ground dwelling species. I had another plant that was adapted to survive extensive droughts that was growing profusely before I moved. The cold 12 hour drive through the mountains shocked it and it didn't make the trip. I'll try and find the scientific names for you.

njnolan1
01-23-2012, 02:08 PM
Have you got a pic of this? I'd be curious to see what species of palm you're using and maybe consider incorporating them into my own vivaria if it's feasible.

Thanks.




Actually, the spider probably wouldn't know the difference.
What I meant was that his rose would probably prefer not to have a plant at all.

AbraxasComplex
01-23-2012, 02:09 PM
Ceropegia linearis woodii, also known as the rosary vine, is the hanging/ground cover plant I mentioned that is growing like a weed. Incredibly hardy unless you over water.

The other that was shocked by the cold trip I believe was some kind of Crassula spp.

The tall one in the G.rosea enclosure is Euphorbia tirucalli and is starting to grow again.

grayzone
01-23-2012, 02:12 PM
Have you got a pic of this? I'd be curious to see what species of palm you're using and maybe consider incorporating them into my own vivaria if it's feasible.

Thanks.
sure thing joe.. ill try to take a good pic tonight and ill post it on the forum.. its in a tank that (to date) has housed a giant L.p. then an A. genic, now a G. rosea. its dry, well ventilated, and on the side where i overflow the water dish.

---------- Post added 01-23-2012 at 11:15 AM ----------

i COULD BE wrong about it being a type of palm... however, it looks like one to me. im no plant guy YET, but ive been meaning to dabble after seeing vivs like xhexdx's and AbraxasComplex's. Truly inspiring

AbraxasComplex
01-23-2012, 02:26 PM
Oh and the Sansevieria I mentioned are known as Birdnest Sansevieries. Dwarf species like S. trifasciata hahnii which comes in a number of colour and pattern varieties.

Plus if you ever need to water them (sparingly of course, usually once every 2-3 weeks), you can partially fill up the cups with water like Bromeliads.

Hornets inverts
01-23-2012, 07:25 PM
Have you got a pic of this? I'd be curious to see what species of palm you're using and maybe consider incorporating them into my own vivaria if it's feasible.

Thanks.

My favourite palm for viv use is palour palm Chamaedorea elegans. It can get a good 1-2m tall, maybe even more but grows very slowly in a viv. Pinanga species, Licuala species are also good and often have beautiful leaves when young. This is my personal fave http://www.pacsoa.org.au/palms/Pinanga/veitchii.html

desertanimal
01-24-2012, 12:00 AM
Most of the Mammillaria cactus I ever found when I lived in AZ were growing inside other plants, like brittle bush and such. So they seem to like more shade than larger species. Obviously you'd still need to provide supplemental light, but people are able to keep those happy in a windowsill pretty easily.

Hornets inverts
01-24-2012, 12:10 AM
Most of the Mammillaria cactus I ever found when I lived in AZ were growing inside other plants, like brittle bush and such. So they seem to like more shade than larger species. Obviously you'd still need to provide supplemental light, but people are able to keep those happy in a windowsill pretty easily.

The main thing about them though is they need to dry out fast but they still need water, i dont see vivs drying out fast enough to prevent rot on most species

desertanimal
01-24-2012, 12:24 AM
I wouldn't say they need much water. Phoenix has an average annual rainfall of 7". Tucson, the wettest part of the Sonoran desert, 11". But I agree that if you wanted to go that route, you'd need to use a substrate appropriate for cacti. You couldn't plunk them down in coco-fibre. They'd rot in that. But if we're talking about providing a naturalistic soil composition for a naturalistic flora, and since we're talking about a dry-living T, I think the water management could work. The light and airflow management, I'm less sure about. A windowsill in a Phoenix house still has a lot more light and airflow than your average T enclosure.

Hornets inverts
01-24-2012, 12:55 AM
they dont need heaps of water but in my experience growing them (in small pots with lots of sun so obvioursly they will dehydrate quicker) is that in the summer they do like a good soaking every week or 2, even dont mind having constant rain for a week or 2

desertanimal
01-24-2012, 01:12 AM
Fair enough. I think growing any plant inside a box is going to require some flexibility, finesse, and attention. My own best horticultural results always stem from sticking a plant in the ground in its native environment and ignoring it ever after! Well, that's not totally true. But desert plants aren't that hard to grow in their native desert. ;)

AbraxasComplex
01-24-2012, 03:10 AM
No Crysta, the LEDs currently out are not sufficient -- not those that come in a white light spectrum. The only LED setups which do provide sufficient light in usable wavelengths of appropriate intensity result in a very purple light.

Actually there are a variety of LED lights that do work. All you need to do is provide a variety in the spectrum. This can be achieved by using a strip with 2700-3500 Kelvin rated lights (for a red sun light glow and can be found at ikea) combined with a 6500 K rated strip for a white/blue range, and to knock up the intensity you could use a 14000 K strip (usually used for marine tanks). Both of the last two can be found here: http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/LEDLights.html#1000

Keep in mind though the Kelvin rating does not guarantee the correct wavelength, but they seem to be listed as such to denote the softness/warmness of the light (the higher the Kelvin, the cooler the spectrum).

By combining at least the first two you can make a bright environment that has a wide spectrum that verges on the appearance of natural sunlight. Many fish tanks and marine tanks have been shown to be successful with the 6500 and 14000 K LED lights and they need a higher intensity of light to properly penetrate the water in the aquarium. I've currently been using a 7w 2700K Ikea spotlight set to offset the lack of natural light in a north facing window with better growing results than in the summer with natural light. :O

Most LED grow lights appear purple either because they consist of a combination of LEDs in the red spectrum and in the blue spectrum or just one white "full spectrum" that seems to be on the purple side (combining both red and blue wavelengths).

I've found a place that will make me custom strips and fixtures and plan on trying a combination of all 3 in one strip. By using more LEDs at the 2700K and 6500K level I should get a desirable display light and grow light. I'll let you know how it goes.


As for growing the succulent in your tank supply a 1 inch drainage layer of gravel. With burrowing species cover this with several layers of fine mesh fiberglass screen (such as for screen doors) to prevent disturbing this layer. I use another inch of sand, but over eager burrowers love digging through this layer. For your substrate you can always increase the drainage around the succulents by increasing the sand and succulent potting mix in that area. A great way to section this off is to use rocks, such as slate, or driftwood. Then camouflage the difference in substrate around the base of the plant with a light sprinkling of whatever you are using for the rest of tarantula's substrate and some pebbles.

Most likely you'll have a mesh or screen lid with arid species of tarantula so ventilation will not be a major issue.

pavel
01-24-2012, 07:52 PM
And how much has your palm grown, Greyzone? Surviving and thriving are not the same thing.

Interesting Abraxas. The commercial growers I've spoken to as well as orchid and succulent hobbyists I know who have tried them have not found those LEDs achieving a more daylight look to be effective. The combinations resulting in a purple lighting have been effective but the resulting visual effect is unappealing to most folks. I find it particularly surprising that you have found some combos that have worked for aquaria as I would expect it to be more difficult to supple the needs of corals. Btw, if it's not prying too much, how much do the marine strips you mentioned typically sell for?

On another debatable topic, a typical "drainage layer" is generally useless unless one is planning on having water cycled through the soil into a reservoir to then be circulated via a pump back onto the soil. Otherwise, all one succeeds in doing is creating a perched watertable. (Doesn't do ones potted plants any good either.) A gent on another forum goes into this at some length. If interested I could probably find it and paste it here though I am hesitant to hijack this thread further.