widow misinformation?

[looseyfur]

BITE RISK
Although the bite of a widow spider is much feared, the widow spiders are generally nonaggressive and will retreat when disturbed. Bites usually occur when a spider becomes accidentally pressed against the skin of a person when putting on clothes or sticking their hands in recessed areas or dark corners. According to Dr. G.B. Edwards, an arachnologist with the Florida State Collection of Arthropods in Gainesville, the brown widow venom is twice as potent as black widow venom. However, they do not inject as much venom as a black widow, are very timid, and do not defend their web. The brown widow is also slightly smaller than the black widow.


*** I thought the brown widows venom was missing some enzimes that other widow spiders have which made them effectively "less" medically signifigant?

eh?
loosey

[Twitche]

The brown recluse spider is also very poisonous but I don't know how it comapares to the bite of a black widow.

[misfitsfiend]

Black widow bites are much more painfull than a recluse bite, and the symptoms last longer.... I dont know from personal experience but it is what I have read many times over.

[Kugellager]

I do not know much about the venom potency between L.geometricus (brown widow) and other species of widow but I can vouch that the Brown Widow does behave in an even more timid fashion than the Western Black Widow (L. hesperus)...at least this seems true with the ones I have kept.

John
];')

[Haplopelmatic]

Black widow bites are much more painfull than a recluse bite, and the symptoms last longer.... I dont know from personal experience but it is what I have read many times over.

Yes, the bite itself is supposed to be more painful than that of L. reclusa. But considering the long-term effects I'd rather take an untreated hit from a Latrodectus than one from a Loxosceles any day. The Latrodectus venom is neurotoxic whereas the Loxosceles venom is primarily cytotoxic and attacks the cellular structure of the bite area resulting in severe necrosis if left untreated. Ok, the widow bites will make you sick as hell for a couple of days, but at least you don't risk ending up with horrible deformities.

/Cheers!

[Wade]

G.B. Edwards knows his stuff, so I tend to believe it. He's written a number of highly regarded spider articles and books.

Wade

[looseyfur]

The brown widow, Latrodectus geometricus, is a cosmotropical species, found in most tropical seaports around the world; it is an introduced species in Florida. Coloration may vary, but is usually brown to grey, with white and black markings on the back and sides of the dorsal abdomen: The "hourglass" is usually complete. This species is often found on or around human habitations and other buildings. While definitely venomous to humans, bites tend to be less severe than those of most other widow spiders.

the above clip is directly from hobospiders.org

hrm- can anyone really clear this up....


loosey

[Elizabeth]

There isn't a contradiction that I can see between that which you culled from hobospiders and the info from G. B. Edwards. :confused: What aren't you getting?

[MilkmanWes]

Is this the thread where I mention a company made some mistakes with my grandmothers account? Or is that not the right kind of widow misinformation?

[Elizabeth]

Well, perhaps you should elaborate on your Grandma. Maybe it will be less confusing than the widow spider stuff! LOL!

[Wade]

The hobospider quote doesn't make any reference to the toxicity of the venom, it only talks about the actual bite severity. If brown widows inject much less venom, then thier bite might be less severe than that of the southern black widow, even if drop for drop theirs is more potent.

This is why "which is most venomous" topics get confusing. For example: If it's true, as often claimed, that L. mactans venom is many times more powerful than a timber rattlesnake, does that mean that it would be worse to be bitten by a widow than a rattlesnake? Hell no! The rattlesnake can inject hundreds, maybe thousands, of times the venom a widow can.

Wade

[death1]

I read, somewhere, that Brown Widows have a venom 3-10X more potent than Black Widows, but deliver a substanially low volume of venom... Now if I can find that site... I think it was a medical reference. :?

Found one http://spiders.ucr.edu/brownwidow.html

[Rob1985]

The brown recluse spider is also very poisonous but I don't know how it comapares to the bite of a black widow. I was bit by a Brown Recluse about a few years ago. Let me say it wasn't pleasent and I had many anti-venom shots. Oh by the way I am a newbie. I don't have a T yet, but getting one in a week or soo. I might get a scorpian later down the road. By the way this has been probably one of those most interesting sites I have ever been on. After I had my anti-Venom shots I told myself I want a spider!!! :wicked:

[JPD]

There isn't a contradiction that I can see between that which you culled from hobospiders and the info from G. B. Edwards. What aren't you getting?

Read the information again. G.B. Edwards leans towards more toxic....Hobospider.org leans towards less toxic.

[Wade]

Edwards is talking about drop-for-drop toxicity of the venom, while the hobospider.org quote discussed the severity of the actual bite. Two different issues.

Wade

[Elizabeth]

Thanks, Wade! You are so patient to cover it twice. For some reason, those paragraphs must be easy to get confused over. Here's my effort to lend clarity.

Brown widow - more potent venom than other widows, but less injected.

Other widows (most) - less potent venom, but more injected than a brown widow.

Overall result: brown widow bites are less severe than other widows despite a more potent venom.

Here's an excerpt from the link that death1 provided ( :clap: ), an excellent link describing the brown widow:

"Even though it has venom of high toxicity, this is typically determined with injections of venom into mice or rabbits and conclusions from this are inferred with little real-world relevance. Much more relevant is the effects of actual spider bites. A South African medical journal reports on the bites of 15 brown widows in humans (Müller 1993) . Only two symptoms of brown widow envenomation were reported in the majority of bite victims: 1) pain while being bitten and 2) a mark where the bite occurred. That's it. Not much more. The bite of the brown widow is about the same as any non-poisonous spider. It hurts and leaves a little mark on the skin. It is no big deal. There are none of the serious, protracted symptoms that one would exhibit when bitten by a black widow."

That link really puts the brown widow's bite risk in perspective.