U.S. BANS millipede and mantid importation

Shelob · Mar 7, 2005

Hello all. Sorry I do not have a link to refer you to, but I work at a fish and reptile store and was rather suprised by the news I recieved from my reptile supplier (CalZoo).

The message stated that the US Department of Agriculture has of right now banned imported millipedes and fancy mantids. It didn't give a reason why. I can only assume that it is because the imported species could wipe out native species. It said that they are currently confiscating fancy mantids at reptile shops, but have not done so yet with the millipedes.

Sorry for this bad news, I understand if you want to take it with a grain of salt, but I am just informing you of what I heard from my supplier.

Also apologies if this has already been posted.

Scythemantis · Mar 7, 2005

!?! Tell me this does not mean that such common standards as african black millipedes and flower mantids will be banned/confiscated...

Shelob · Mar 7, 2005

Not sure on that one. I am going to call them tommorow (Monday) and find out exactly what is going on. I will let the board know as soon as I do.

bugsnstuff · Mar 7, 2005

hopefully the ban is on the same level as the one concerning American Bullfrogs in the UK.

the ban merely states that they cannot be imported, it is not a keeping ban.

this will hopefully spur more people into the breeding of the species concerned to keep them in culture instead of relying on WC specimens.

in a way it can be looked upon as a good thing, alot of these creatures previously caught from the wild will be left there as the market will be alot smaller worldwide.
the bad thing is, in the long run, the cultures of these creatures over here may (not definitely) suffer from the lack of genetic diversity and either eventually die out or evolve to survive (hence becoming a sub species of the original)

Bob · Mar 7, 2005

The USFW came to visit a freind of mine here in Portland (Rose City Reptile) last week and said they were looking for Manids. They were not concerned with his Giant African Black millipedes. He was not sure why they were looking for Mandids. He did not have any so they left.

Bob

Wade · Mar 8, 2005

Are you sure it was the USWS and not the USDA? The mantid/millipede regulation comes under the same blanket ban the USDA placed on nearly all inverts. Millipedes are banned because they eat plants (it doesn't matter to the USDA that they eat dead rotten plants), and the mantids because they might eat pollinators, like bees and butterflies.

The only thing new here is the fact that they're actually enforcing these regs on OBVIOUSLY harmless animals. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with conservation and everything to do with government bueruecracy run amok.

Wade

Raqua · Mar 8, 2005

Wade said:
This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with conservation and everything to do with government bueruecracy run amok.
Wade

As it does most of the time .... :? :wall: :? :wall:

Bob · Mar 8, 2005

Wade said:
Are you sure it was the USWS and not the USDA?

Not sure Wade. My freind is a importer and gets this guy visiting him a few times a year. He showed me the guys card but I did not pay that much attention. I thought it was fish and wildlife....I could be wrong.

It's funny because this inspector sees he is selling the Australian Et walking stick but never says anything about them. Bufo Marinis toads are not legal in my county so he looks for those too. Next time I see him I will ask what's going on with this.

Bob

Wade · Mar 8, 2005

The USFWS might be working in conjuction with the USDA, and the USFWS guy may be simply unaware the same ban covers phasmids. The ban could be used to confiscate almost any invert as written, but they seem to enforce selectively. Right now, for some reason, it's mantids.

Wade

Trygon · Mar 8, 2005

Sadness

Pet Rock Anybody?

-trygon

Lycanthrope · Mar 8, 2005

It's funny because this inspector sees he is selling the Australian Et walking stick

How much is he selling them for and would you ship them to me for a small fee?

Dark Raptor · Mar 8, 2005

I see you've got a big problem with your government. Almost the same thing we have now in Poland, but with other invertebrate groups.

We are fighting with our Ministry of Environment. They want to put a BAN on spiders, among them:

Theraphosa, Thorell, 1870.
Aphonopelma, Pocock, 1901.
Ceratogyrus, Pocock, 1897.
Pamphobeteus, Pocock, 1901.
Poecilotheria, Simon, 1885.
Pterinochilus, Pocock, 1897.

Also all scolopendras and many scorp species will be prohibited.

So we won't be able to import them, sell and breed them... and the most important... keep them! This is sick

Scorpendra · Mar 8, 2005

there go my dreams of having a P. Paradoxa or. in fact, there go my dreams of having any land-based inverts except the commonest Ts and scorps on the market (and a madagascar hissing roach that looks sick), let alone anything healthy. (you'd go crazy looking for anything far beyond a bald abdomened B. Smithi or an obese P. Imperator (and a few weeks ago, i think i saw an A. Avicularia that just sat around on the substrate) (and you know it is that common when i don't even have to look up the latin names) where i live, but that is besides the point)

Dark Raptor said:
This is sick

undertstatement of the millenium.

Raqua · Mar 9, 2005

Dark Raptor said:
I see you've got a big problem with your government. Almost the same thing we have now in Poland, but with other invertebrate groups.

We are fighting with our Ministry of Environment. They want to put a BAN on spiders, among them:

Theraphosa, Thorell, 1870.
Aphonopelma, Pocock, 1901.
Ceratogyrus, Pocock, 1897.
Pamphobeteus, Pocock, 1901.
Poecilotheria, Simon, 1885.
Pterinochilus, Pocock, 1897.

Also all scolopendras and many scorp species will be prohibited.

So we won't be able to import them, sell and breed them... and the most important... keep them! This is sick

Over here only Brachypelma spp. banned due to CITES, but it's nonsense anyway. This is how it looks when lawmakers are completely incompetent in this stuff .. :wall: :?

Trygon · Mar 9, 2005

The ban of mantids makes no sense to me. If they were banned because of concerns about the status of wild populations i would understand completely... after all, we don't want to see any species going extinct. But to say it is for agricultural reasons is rediculous! Mantids have been imported for ages as a method of pest control for use in back yards, green houses, and agriculture. I believe that is why in my home state of MA you can find both european and chinese mantids. So, up until now, having mantids around has been viewed as highly beneficial and not detrimental. Also, mantids (as in most predatory species) are not and will not become over abundant... Infact, they will tend to limit their own populations with heightened competition between individuals (i.e. cannibalism). That imported mantid populations could ever grow to a size that would substantially effect pollinator insect numbers is just a joke.
There just must be more to this mantid ban story then indicated within this thread. If not, the US government has gone off the deep end (or even farther off).

-Trygon

Wade · Mar 9, 2005

Trygon said:
There just must be more to this mantid ban story then indicated within this thread. If not, the US government has gone off the deep end (or even farther off).

-Trygon

It's the latter. You have to understand, they have it in for the pet trade, and this is just a pretense. They know full well there's no real risk.

Wade

Magician · Mar 10, 2005

Wade said:
It's the latter. You have to understand, they have it in for the pet trade, and this is just a pretense. They know full well there's no real risk.

Wade

WHy would they have it in for the pet trade? Dont they want to make more jobs and grow the ecomony?

(P.s Wade, i just noticed, we live very close to each other, i'am right outside richmond.)

Wade · Mar 10, 2005

Well, I didn't bring my soapbox with me today

, but there is a lot snobbery in some circles concerning private people keeping exotic animals of any kind. Also, power and money is involved. Government agencies are always looking to expand their influence. By creating the illusion that there's a big problem with captive inverts, they can justify asking congress for more money, buildings, agents, etc.

Of course, that's just my insignificant opinion. Maybe they have perfectly good reasons for fearing a non-venomous, bennificial predatory insect that lives in very low population density and couldn't survive in a temperate climate anyway

Wade

james · Mar 10, 2005

Usda

I sometimes wonder who they have reviewing these things as well. I'm trying to get some rhino roaches that only eat dead dried out eucalyptus leaves. Most of the roaches can't even survive typical North American climates. How do they pose any threat to anything. I have been researching a lot on roaches recently and it amazes me how you can legally keep pest species like Blatella germanica, but not other species that are even close to pest. Also they use that term PEST for everything. To me a pest is something that can either infest or cause major agriculture harm. People with money and a bias make this world the mess it is. Instead of being happy with their lives they have to ruin others. Anyway, enough babble just more disappointment in our government.
James

NrthCstInverts · Mar 17, 2005

Saw this two weeks ago

I saw someone post about this on another forum two weeks ago. I was deeply concerned as i absolutely love Millis, and am finding a fasination with the mantids. I kinda dismissed it about three days later when i saw the same individual that posted it try to SELL mantids on the same forum.
But now that i have seen this on TWO other forums i think there may be something to this. Its a very unfortunate thing that with all the terrorism and hunger in the world that the government in this wonderful country of ours doesnt have anything better to spend its money on than stopping a bunch of hobbiests from doing something that they love. How pathetic....
At any rate ive talked to a number of pet shops and wholesalers in my area, and NONE of them have heard about this yet. Im in Northern Ohio, so maybe it hasnt reached us yet?!?! ( and hopefully it doesnt..lol)

U.S. BANS millipede and mantid importation

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