Two feeder insects, which ones?

I want to try to keep only two kinds of feeder insect for my tarantulas. I don't have a lot, (12), but they cover at least three categories.
Oh, and I don't want crickets. They are hysterical, and their 'song' can be heard through just about anything.

1. Arboreals - feeding these zoophobas with a pair of tweezers works, but isn't a whole lot of fun. Glass-climbing roaches could work, but they, on the other hand, wouldn't work for the terrestrial T's (would escape from the tanks and get me kicked out from the place I live no doubt). Locusts would probably work, but..they are kind of hard to keep, not to mention actually breed.

2. Big terrestrial eater - this category is composed entirely of my adult L.parahybana. Small roaches(like S. tartarus - suitable for category 3) could work for her, I guess, but it is sort of dull to give her small things when she can eat practically anything. B.dubia would be good, but I have a feeling it would be good only for her, 'cause how would I ever get an arboreal to eat super-burrowing roaches?

3. Small, friendly, terrestrials. -I am thinking Shelfordella tartarus here, but I don't know if they would actually eat any roach.

Painted myself into a corner, haven't I?
Edit. Is there actually a type of roach that is neither an obligate burrower or a glass-climber?

I think crix are the best in your situation. They are good enough for small and large Ts. They don't burrow in substrate and they are very active. They are also easy to breed and grow very quickly. If you hate their sound, you can cut male's right wing. It really helps make them quiet, and they are still able to breed.

For small Ts (spiderlings) I use newly hatched Tenebrio molitor and Alphitobius diaperinus larvae.

You could always crush the head of large, glass climbing roaches with a pair of tweezers before feeding them to your terrestial/small Ts, it makes the roaches a lot more manageable for them.

Cricks are a no-no. I do not mutilate feeder-insects, besides perhaps cutting maggots and zoophobas in two, sometimes, if a smaller spider just won't take them whole, so they'd play their merry tune and I'd go insane. Would be kind of hard to cut every male anyways, if there are 40+ cricks.

I am currently thinking Sheffordella tartara, because I think it was Martin H who said, in another thread that I just saw, that they don't burrow much. Of course, since they breed in normal room-temperature, and fast, I can't really tell what doesn't make them a potential pest-species, but hey hey.

Hi Vys,

I have a colony of Shelfordella tartara and they seem to be a great feeder. They breed well, but i've seen no sign of them getting into the house, in fact i've never seen one loose in the house, even though i know a few have escaped. I find lobster roaches loose all the time They arent quite as fleshy as some of the other roaches out there, and they are stupidly fast, but overall they are a great feeder.

Cheers,

Aha, aha, thanks for the information.
Say, is the first thing one does after having been dumped into a spider's terrarium dig deep deep quickly quick?

They don't seem to have any burrowing tendancies at all, they just run around on the surface waiting to be eaten, the perfect feeder! Lobster roaches are good in that respect too, but unfortunately they will climb the sides of the tank, which is good for arboreals though.

I see..maybe and perhaps even an arboreal would stalk close to the bottom of the tank if there was something constantly running to and fro..otherwise, I think these just might fit the other categories, anyway!

Thanks alot! Will give them a try.

hmmmmmm

Its alternative (previous?) name appears to be Blatta lateralis, and discovering this has made me see other things, things that have made me somewhat wary.

First off, it's of the same genus as the Oriental cockroach, a well-known pest-species.

Second, googling with Blatta lateralis shows sentences like these:

"Cockroaches were collected from hospitals, houses and poultry sheds in various parts of Isfahan (Iran) and identified to species. In total, seven species of cockroaches in seven genera were identified: Blatta lateralis, Polyphaga aegyptiaca, Arenivaga roseni and Parcoblatta spp. Three species Periplaneta americana, Blattella germanica and Supella longipalpa (Blattidae and Blattellidae) were more abundant than the others"
(http://ibj.pasteur.ac.ir/Ibj16/Emtiazi.htm)


"The Turkestan cockroach is a desert species which also inhabits semi-desert locations and sometimes lives under moist conditions. It is found both outdoors and inside structures. This species is common in sewer systems."
(http://www.ipconetwork.org/pests/bsshow.mv?g.rcno=41)

"Turkestan cockroach (Blatta lateralis). This cockroach is probably the newest species to enter North America. It was first found in the U.S. at a military supply center on the west coast. Its economic importance, if any, isn't yet established."
("Military Pest Management Handbook", http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/ento/mpmh/chap8.htm)

"There are three exotic structural pests that are directly responsible for the increase in black widow populations in these schools - the Oriental cockroach, Blatta orientalis; the Turkestan cockroach, Blatta lateralis; and the Indian house or decorated cricket, Gryllodes supplicans."
(Although this article discusses the removal of a small horde of these roaches from a tree on campus, it doesn't directly tell if a colony was found inside, http://pestcontrolmag.com/pestcontrol/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=94015)

""Shelfordella tartara" heißt korrekt Blatta lateralis und ich möchte nicht meine Hand dafür ins Feuer legen, daß das keine Pestschabe ist." -said by handle 'Ingo' in http://www.dghtserver.de/foren/viewtopic.php?TopicID=20742
(Meaning, as far as I can tell (babelfish hardly helped): "It is correct that Shelfordella tartara is Blatta lateralis, and I don't want to bet putting my hand in a fire that it isn't a pest-species", and no one in the thread disputes this (as far as I can tell ) )

It is somewhat reassuring that they haven't taken over your house yet but there's a small world of implications out there, if you're paranoid enough, and this doesn't go well with a roach that breeds well in room temperature/humidity :/

Hmmm... I think it is obvious that people in Europe should avoid Periplaneta, Blatta and Blatella species. I know some people in Poland, who started their own colony... and guess what happened

I think that hissers should be good. My roaches never burrow in substratum, there are very large and small specimens. But they've got some disadvantages. They aren't very active (except males), they spend most of their time near ground (and hidden), they grow and breed very slowly. They are glass-climbers, but they can't breed outside their tank (they are very sensitive to dry conditions). Maybe you should try this specie.

Hmm, I don't know yet, because I don't think I've come across anyone using any Periplaneta, Blatta or Blatella species yet except for Blatta lateralis aka Shelfordella tartara as feeders; these, on the other hand, seem to be quite popular in Europe, and increasingly so.

Why should europeans in particular avoid them though? I'd think it'd apply to everyone except maybe inuits?

I've considered hissers, but so far their (lack of) speed of reproduction(I think?), the ability to climb glass, as well as their size has deterred me(only the parahybana would eat adults). Additionally, they hiss. Who knows if they'd be annoyed and hiss all the time, keeping me awake at nights?

Edit. And are you saying that you know of someone that kept a colony of S.tartara that spread and infested his room/house?

Vys said:

Why should europeans in particular avoid them though? I'd think it'd apply to everyone except maybe inuits?

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Because these are very common in Europe (and on other continents, other species can take their place as 'invaders')... but of course they are everywhere.

Vys said:

I've considered hissers, but so far their (lack of) speed of reproduction(I think?), the ability to climb glass, as well as their size has deterred me(only the parahybana would eat adults). Additionally, they hiss. Who knows if they'd be annoyed and hiss all the time, keeping me awake at nights?

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Small hissers can reach 1 - 3 cm bodylenght. They are good enough for almost all Ts. I think their hisses aren't loud enough to wake you up (or make you mad). They make more noise when they demolish everything in their tank during males' fights

Vys said:

And are you saying that you know of someone that kept a colony of S.tartara that spread and infested his room/house?

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No, I know some accidents with Blatta orientalis, Blatella germanica, Periplaneta americana, P. australasiae and Nauphoeta cinerea. So be careful with Blatta lateralis (or Shelfordella tartara).

Dark Raptor said:

Because these are very common in Europe (and on other continents, other species can take their place as 'invaders')... but of course they are everywhere.

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Yeah. Same climate, one avenue to that can lead to the same problems. Most of the links I gave seem to indicate that is the case with the US, at least.

Dark Raptor said:

Small hissers can reach 1 - 3 cm bodylenght. They are good enough for almost all Ts. I think their hisses aren't loud enough to wake you up (or make you mad). They make more noise when they demolish everything in their tank during males' fights

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Ah, good to know,
and lol

Dark Raptor said:

No, I know some accidents with Blatta orientalis, Blatella germanica, Periplaneta americana, P. australasiae and Nauphoeta cinerea. So be careful with Blatta lateralis (or Shelfordella tartara).

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Even lobsters? Hmmhmm...but yes, this is exactly what I am beginning to suspect - that this (S.tartara) roach might not be as 'ideal' as it appears to be under the name of S.tartara..


Right now I am also considering hissers and Death's heads (Blaberus craniifer)..though the latter seem somewhat hard to come by, to breed slowly, and possibly be as bad burrowers as B.dubia?

Edit. And possibly Nauphoeta cinerea, for the hell of it. Though they are apparently real good at escaping, I haven't seen them mentioned in the same sentence as 'pest' where 'not' wasn't included at the same time.

Vys said:

Right now I am also considering hissers and Death's heads (Blaberus craniifer)..though the latter seem somewhat hard to come by, to breed slowly, and possibly be as bad burrowers as B.dubia?

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I've got now Blaberus giganteus (or hybrid with B. discoidalis). They are also 'bad burrowers' and at the begining they were breeding very slowly (they were loosing their oothecas very often - stress?). But in good conditions (27 - 30 degrees C, 50 - 60 % humidity, fruits, vegetables, dry cat food, water) and when you've got a lot of females they can reproduce amazingly fast. This one is the best feeder for my larger T's.

As I know B. dubia grows and breeds faster than Blaberus species.

I keep also N. cinerea. I use closed tanks and vaseline to prevent them from escaping. Before giving them to my T's I crush their heads but after that they won't be able to invade my room.

Thanks for the information raptor man
Will not crush heads so, hm,
It would seem hissers could possibly be my best bet..hmm, but they get so dang large..and vocal..well, I'll ponder.

As for this sudden idea that won't leave my mind (Green Banana Roach, guaranteed tropical and thus surely not a home-invader, if escapee, I saw this article refered to by Martin H(PROY, C. (2000): Praktische Erfahrungen bei der Zucht der Grünen Schabe (Panchlora nivea) und der Weißen Assel (Trichorhina tomentosa) sowie ihrer Verwendung als Futtertiere. Herpetofauna 22(127): 19-22.)..but I don't know where to get it.
Is there a place like ACM but for insect/arachnid-articles? (Free, or almost, pdf-copies of the articles gathered in one place.)

I sometimes feed my regalis a roach by simply take the roach in a forceps and offer it to the spider. Works great but I guess Im spoiling her...
Othervise I just rip the head off the roach and place it near the spider.

/Lelle

I used to do that with zoophobas,(feed with forceps) but I much prefer if I can just throw something in that will eventually be eaten.

It will most likely take me some time to acquire P.nivea(a month or so), which I will nevertheless try, and before that I think I will try B.lateralis.
What I would like to ask is if a Kritter Keeper (or Petpal, ventilation holes should be of about the same size or so) is Ok for P.nivea? (Flying escape-artist P. nivea..)

If any of these give me any escapee-troubles they can go infest the pine-forest outside my window all they can although I shall of course do my best to see to that this does not happen. Therefore the question above.

At least until I strike catastrophe or so, I feel willing to try something that doesn't dig. Most people, on forums and websites, tend not to mention burrowing, can't imagine why.

"Phylogenetic relationships within Blattidae inferred here show that S. lateralis is most closely related to P. americana, and thus Periplaneta is paraphyletic. Kambhampati (1995, Klass (1997) also showed these relationships based on mitocondrial rRNA gene sequences. Although we could not analyse species belonging to Blatta L., we suggest that the designation of Shelfordella lateralis (Walker) be returned to its original placement in Periplaneta, pending further taxonomic study." http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1365-3113.2000.00128.x/full/

Don't know exactly what that means, except that I don't become less wary.