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WYSIWYG
07-02-2005, 01:50 AM
Hiya,

I got a little big of money from the hubby today and I was thinking instead of spending it on spiders, I ought to spend some of it to get me a decent digital camera.

I'm kinda die-hard in that I dont' want a straight digital camera. I want one with some manual functions, where I can control the lense and do things like selective focusing. I don't want to have to stand there for 20 minutes waiting for the camera to settle so that the object isn't a blur.

I'd like to be able to do some of the cool macros shots I see here too, BUT...

I don't have an arm and a leg to spend. I only have a couple hundred
dollars to spend (darn it, there I go with that return button at the end of
every line). :P

Anyway, I only have a little bit to spend, and chances are, I'm not going to
be able to get EVERYTHING I want in digital, but if I can get at least half of
it, then maybe I can sell some of my artsy types of photos to move up to a
better camera.

I really want to get some good shots of some of my favorite tarantulas and my other critters too. Anyone got any ideas?

(I saw another related thread, but the question wasn't the same as mine, so
figured I might as well start a new one). :)

Wysi

ChrisNCT
07-02-2005, 01:52 AM
I like my Canon EOS Digital Rebel. You can control everything!

WYSIWYG
07-02-2005, 02:04 AM
I like my Canon EOS Digital Rebel. You can control everything!

Hi Chris,

Thanks for such a QUICK response! I've been looking at those lately.
Last time I looked, it was a few years ago. Back then, they were just
point and click thingies. So I'm guessing they've come a long ways!

I'll take a closer look at one this weekend. I'm really anxious to get started
with my photography....bugs and other things too. :)

Wysi

Windchaser
07-02-2005, 09:01 AM
I would suggest that you look at the Canon S2 IS or the Sony H1. Both are very capable cameras. I just picked up the Canon for my daughter as her graduation gift. It is a nice camera with lots of features. The only thing I don't like is that it does not have a hot shoe to support other flashs. Apparently there is some type of additional Canon flash you can get, but this is not the same as having a hot shoe that will work with a variety of different flashs. Other than that, it is a very nice camera.

I have an older Sony F717 and like it a lot. I have seen good reviews for the H1. Based on these two points, I am recommending it as an option for you. Though I don't have any personal experience with the H1.

ChrisNCT
07-02-2005, 01:24 PM
For pics of what my camera can do in a novices hands..see any of my pics. I think I do allot better than I used to but I lack good variety of lenses, lighting, and other equipment options.

WYSIWYG
07-02-2005, 02:09 PM
For pics of what my camera can do in a novices hands..see any of my pics. I think I do allot better than I used to but I lack good variety of lenses, lighting, and other equipment options.

Hiya Chris,

Yeah, I was just admiring your B. smithi pix in another thread.
BUT....I don't see the info on what camera you were using. Obviously,
it has selective focusing, which is one of my favorite things to do with a
photo. It gives it a 3-D feel. (I remember putting up a photo for discussion
in one of my photography classes and someone said it looked 3-D to them).

I LOVE selective focusing! You get that going with interesting patterns (my last photography teacher said he noticed I had a penchant for patterns), and you get some really interesting stuff.

I really stunk at photojournalism-type pix like basketball games and portraits and such, so I still with the artsy type things that don't move for the most part. ;)

So, what camera are you using, Chris?

Windy, thanks for the tips. I'll check those out. I don't like to use flash at
all anyway. I prefer natural light, so I don't see a problem there. :)

Wysi

Windchaser
07-02-2005, 02:21 PM
So, what camera are you using, Chris?

Windy, thanks for the tips. I'll check those out. I don't like to use flash at
all anyway. I prefer natural light, so I don't see a problem there. :)

Wysi

Chris is using the Canon EOS Digital Rebel. At least I assume that is what he is using since that is what camera he said that he has.

As far as lighting goes, I too prefer natural light. Unfortunately that isn't always an option. So, I like to have more options available to me if I need a flash rather than be limited.

For instance, this picture would have been impossible without a flash, since it was taken at night during a scorpion hunt. The cheesy built in flash would not have given me the same results.
http://kanidey.com/images/2005%20ATS%20Conference/toad.jpg

Tony
07-02-2005, 02:29 PM
Dawn

As you may have noticed lighting goes along way in making the picture...a 3 MP camera with a good macro will do you just fine...a site you can check is dpreview.com but they sure get into the nitty gritty of stuff..My Sony DSC-S75 works pretty well for me...The S 85 $mp) apparently is popular with people even though it is old.
T

WYSIWYG
07-02-2005, 03:09 PM
Chris is using the Canon EOS Digital Rebel. At least I assume that is what he is using since that is what camera he said that he has.

As far as lighting goes, I too prefer natural light. Unfortunately that isn't always an option. So, I like to have more options available to me if I need a flash rather than be limited.

For instance, this picture would have been impossible without a flash, since it was taken at night during a scorpion hunt. The cheesy built in flash would not have given me the same results.


Windy,

DUH! You'll have to forgive me. I was up until 4 am and then got up around 8 AM this morning so the brains aren't really here yet. :}

I hadn't made the connection that Chris is the same Chris that answered my question earlier. I was reading your reply thinking, "WHERE did he say he was
using a Canon?!?" --- and then I scrolled up and found it. :8o

Funny stuff. (As you can see, I'm finally starting to get the hang of these
smiley thingies too, though I still get mixed up between hitting the return at
the end of every line and letting it wrap). ;)

Tony, I saw your suggestion. Thanks. I'll check it out.

One thing is it would be nice to get at least one good pix to put into the
Arachnoboards contest, though Murphy's Law dictates that the opportunity
won't present itself until after the deadline....but there's always next year! :)

Thanks a bunch guys. :)

Wysi

WYSIWYG
07-02-2005, 03:13 PM
Oh, I forgot to thank ya'll for the reminder about the night-time situations. (Lovely pic, Windy). Funny thing, is that I just don't have an off-camera flash even for my 35 mm Pentax Z-whatever-model it is. I do need to get around to expanding my camera supplies though. I want to do sceneries and stuff.

I think if I could find a good camera with a K-mount, then I could use the lenses I already have. That would help save a few dollars too. :)

Venom
07-02-2005, 04:36 PM
Hey WYSIWYG, I have also been researching a digital camera. Some of my main criteria were:

excellent macro
high resolution
low noise, very good image quality
good range of manual controls
good for landscapes also
high all around competency and quality
price sub $400

I don't know how this matches with what you need in your camera , but after several months of exhaustive research I settled on the Olympus C-7070. You can find a number of pages with informative reviews on this model here:

http://www.dcviews.com/_olympus/7070.htm

WYSIWYG
07-02-2005, 05:28 PM
Thanks Venom,

That seems closer to my range than some of the other suggestions.
I found one of yours at Ebay (a new one from on online dealer), and it comes with alot
of great stuff. (I looked up Olympus on Kits Camera, where I got my last two cameras from, and they don't carry that brand for some reason)!

This one actually is higher than what I was looking for too, but I'm thinking with all the bonuses the dealer is throwing in, it might be worth it. (Looks like he has more than one, so it's probably safe to share the URL). :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48542&item=7527253658&rd=1

What do ya'll think?

Wysi

ChrisNCT
07-02-2005, 08:47 PM
Hopefully I can post some of the details on mine.




Camera Type: Digital AF/AE SLR
Recording Medium: Type I and II CF card
Imaging Size: 0.89 x 0.59 in. (22.7 x 15.1mm)
Compatible Lenses: Canon EF including EF-S lenses. (Focal length conversion factor: Equivalent to approx. 1.6x indicated focal length compared to 35mm format.)
Lens Mount: Canon EF mount
Imaging Element type: High-sensitivity, high-resolution, single-plate, color CMOS
Pixels: Effective pixels: Approx. 6.3 megapixels.
Total pixels: Approx. 6.5 megapixels
Aspect Ratio: 2:3 (Vertical:Horizontal)
Color Filter System: RGB primary color filter
IR Cut Low-pass Filter: Located in front of the imaging element, non-removable
Recording System
Recording Format: Design rule for Camera File system (JPEG) and RAW. Exif 2.2 compliant.
Image Format: JPEG and RAW (CRW)
File Size (on CF card): JPEG:
(1) Large/Fine: Approx. 3.1MB (3072 x 2048)
(2) Large/ Normal: Approx. 1.8MB (3072 x 2048)
(3) Middle/Fine: Approx. 1.8MB (2048 x 1360)
(4) Middle/Normal: Approx. 1.2MB (2048 x1360)
(5) Small/Fine: Approx. 1.4MB (1536 x 1024)
(6) Small/Normal: Approx. 0.9MB (1536 x 1024). RAW: Approx. 7MB (3072 x 2048)
Folder Setting: Automatic
File Numbersing: (1) Serial numbering, (2) Auto reset
Processing Parameters: Standard parameters plus up to three custom processing parameter sets can be set
Interface: USB
White Balance
Setting: Preset: (Auto, daylight, shade, overcast, tungsten bulb, fluorescent light, flash.) Manual : (Custom: read off photo quality gray card or white subject.)
Viewfinder
Type: Eye-level SLR (with fixed pentamirror)
Coverage: Approx. 95% vertically and horizontally (Coverage against JPEG Large)
Magnification: 0.8x (-1 diopter with 50mm lens at infinity)
Eyepoint: 21mm
Buit-in Dioptric Correction: -3.0 - +1.0 diopter
Focusing Screen: Fixed
Mirror: Quick-return half mirror (Transmittance: reflectance ratio of 40:60, no mirror cut-off with lenses up to EF 600mm f/4)
Viewfinder Information: AF points, AE lock, FE lock, AEB in progress, flash ready, improper FE lock warning, high-speed sync, flash exposure compensation, shutter speed, bulb, FE lock, processing data, aperture, exposure level (exposure compensation, manual exposure level, AEB level, flash exposure compensation, red-eye reduction lamp-on indicator), Max. burst during continuous shooting, AF/MF focus confirmation, CF card full, CF card error, no CF card
Depth-of-field Preview: Enabled with depth-of-field preview button
Eyepiece Shutter: None ( provided with neckstrap)
Autofocus
Type: TTL-CT-SIR with AF-dedicated CMOS sensor
AF Points: 7
AF Working Range: EV 0.5 -18 (at ISO 100)
Focusing Modes: One-Shot AF, Predictive AI Servo AF, AI Focus AF (Automatically selects One-Shot AF or AI Servo AF selected according to shooting mode), Manual Focusing (MF)
AF Point Selection: Automatic selection, manual selection
Selected AF Point Display: Superimposed in viewfinder and indicated on LCD panel.
AF-assist Beam: Intermittent firing of built-in flash, effective range: approx. 13.1 ft/4m at center, approx. 11.5 ft/3.5m at periphery
Exposure Control
Metering Modes: Metering Modes: Max. aperture TTL metering with 35-zone SPC. (1) Evaluative metering, (2) Partial metering at center (approx. 9% of viewfinder), (3) Centerweighted average metering (in manual exposure mode)
Metering Range: EV 1-20 (at 68F / 20C with 50mm f/1.4 lens at ISO 100)
Exposure Control System: Program AE (shiftable), shutter-priority AE, aperture-priority AE, auto depth-of-field AE, full auto, programmed image control modes (Portrait, Landscape, Close-up, Sports, Night Portrait, and Flash OFF), E-TTL autoflash program AE, and manual.
ISO Speed Range: Equivalent to ISO 100-1600
Exposure Compensation: Up to +/-2 stops in 1/2 or 1/3-stop increments (1) AEB (Auto exposure bracketing). (2) Manual exposure compensation. (3) Flash exposure compensation.
AE Lock: Auto: Operates in One-Shot AF mode evaluative metering when focus is achieved. Manual: Enabled with AE lock button. No AE lock in Basic Zone modes.
Shutter
Type: Vertical-travel, mechanical, focal-plane shutter with all speeds electronically-controlled.
Shutter Speeds: 1/4000 to 30 sec. (1/3 increments), bulb, X-sync at 1/200 sec.
Shutter Release: Soft-touch electromagnetic release
Noise Reduction: None (Not necessary)
Self-time: 10-sec. delay.
Remote Control: Remote control with RS-60E3 terminal or wireless Remote Controller RC-1 and RC-5. (Both Optional)
Flash
Built-in Flash Type: Auto pop-up, retractable, built-in flash in the pentamirror hump. Guide No: 13/43 (at ISO 100 in meters/feet)
Recycling time: Approx. 3 sec.
Flash-ready indicator: Flash-ready indicator lights on in viewfinder
Flash coverage: Up to 18mm focal length (equivalent to approx. 28mm in 35mm format)
EOS-dedicated Speedlite: E-TTL autoflash with EX-series Speedlite.
Drive System
Drive Modes: Single, Continuous selected automatically according to shooting mode, Self-timer
Continuous Shooting Speed: Approx. 2.5 fps (at 1/250 sec. or faster for all recording qualities)
Max. Burst During: Continuous Shooting 4 shots
LCD Monitor
Type: TFT color LCD monitor
Monitor Size: 1.8 inches
Pixels: Approx. 118,000 pixels (Displayed pixels)
Coverage: Approx. 100% (for JPEG images)
Brightness Adjustment: 5-levels (settable with menu: LCD brightness)
Image Playback
Image Display Format : (1) Single image, (2) Single image with information, (3) 9-image index, (4) Enlarged, (5) Auto play
Highlight Alert: In the single image with information display mode, the highlight portions containing no image information will blink.
Image Protection and Erase
Protection: A single image can be protected or unprotected
Erase: A single image or all images stored in a CompactFlash card can be erased if they are unprotected.
Menus
Menu Categories: (1) Shooting Menus [8], (2) Playback Menus [4], (3) Setup Menus [14]
LCD Monitor Language: English, German, French, Dutch, Danish, Finnish, Italian, Norwegian, Swedish, Spanish, Chinese (simplified), and Japanese.
Firmware Updating: Enabled by the user
Power Source
Battery: One Battery Pack BP-511/512 (lithium ion rechargeable battery)
Dimensions and Weight
Dimensions: (W x H x D): 5.6 x 3.9 x 2.9 in. / 142 x 99 x 72.4mm
Weight: 19.7 oz. / 560g
Working Conditions
Working Temperature Range: 0 - 40C / 32-104F
Working Humidity: 85% or less
EF-S 18-55mm Lens
Focal Length & Maximum Aperture: 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6
Lens Construction: 11 elements in 9 groups
Diagonal Angle of View: 75-degrees 20' - 27degrees 50'
Focus Adjustment: Inner focusing system with MM
Closest Focusing Distance: 0.28m / 0.92 ft. to infinity
Zoom System: Rotating Type
Filter Size: 58mm
Max. Diameter x Length: 2.7 x 2.6 in. / 69mm x 66.2mm

So what do you think...enough features? LMAO!!!!!!! I know it does everything except fly!

Windchaser
07-02-2005, 09:57 PM
So what do you think...enough features? LMAO!!!!!!! I know it does everything except fly!

That's cool. Does it pick up your dirty socks too? :D

Nice camera BTW.

ChrisNCT
07-02-2005, 10:01 PM
naa......they just get kicked downstairs to the room that the clean clothes appear from. Like magic!

I love the camera and as soon a funds permit, I will be buying about 5 different Canon EF lenses (Macro Only, 500m, 300m, 200m Fisheye), Canon 440 Speedlite modular clip on flash that is directional, RC-1 remote that has macro and time release functions, Canon BG-1 battery grip, tripod and many other items. It will be fully loaded then.

Blasphemy
07-02-2005, 10:02 PM
Yeah the EOS rebel is one monster of a camera. The price will really do some serious damage to your wallet, but as they say you get what you pay for...and 9/10 that's usually true, especially with that thing.

Windchaser
07-03-2005, 10:40 AM
naa......they just get kicked downstairs to the room that the clean clothes appear from. Like magic!

I love the camera and as soon a funds permit, I will be buying about 5 different Canon EF lenses (Macro Only, 500m, 300m, 200m Fisheye), Canon 440 Speedlite modular clip on flash that is directional, RC-1 remote that has macro and time release functions, Canon BG-1 battery grip, tripod and many other items. It will be fully loaded then.

Hey Chris,

You can save a little on the flash if you go with a non-dedicated flash such as the Sunpak Super 383. (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=52799&is=REG&addedTroughType=search) It has a guide number of 120, which is a little less than ths Canon flash that you are looking at, but it is $100 less. That could help toward the lens fund. This flash is used by a ton of photographers. It is worth considering.

WYSIWYG
07-03-2005, 02:33 PM
Yeah the EOS rebel is one monster of a camera. The price will really do some serious damage to your wallet, but as they say you get what you pay for...and 9/10 that's usually true, especially with that thing.

I'm still SOOOOOOO confused!!! (I haven't had any input on that link I put up as to whether or not that's a good deal either). ;)

Anyway, the Canon is 6.3 megapix. The Olympus I'm looking at is 7.1 and it's less expensive than the Canon. I'm leaning that direction.

But if it's has more megapix, why is it cheaper than Canon? Is it just a brand name thingy like the difference between Cadillac and Ford Lincoln Continental? (In that Cadillac is a more expensive car with a brand name people pay extra for despite it's electrical problems, and the Ford Lincoln is less expensive and is a better car in general, despite the brand name)?

Or am I really off-base with my comparison? ;)

Wysi

Venom
07-03-2005, 03:08 PM
The difference is that the Canon EOS is a digital SLR, and the Olympus c-7070 is a high end "point and shoot". The advantage of the SLR is that you can change lenses, and that the image you get in the viewfinder is the same framing that the camera's sensor will see. Now, on the Olympus you can still see what the camera sees, but you see it on the lcd screen on the back. Also, I beleive the optical viewfinder has adjustment markings that allow you to adjust from the viewfinder being offset from the lens. With the Canon you can change the lens for a wide angle, telephoto, or macro lens, and get filters for the lenses as well. But you have to buy each lens separately ( mega $$$ ). With the Olympus you still get wide angle ( 27mm lens ) and a 4x telephoto ( 110 mm ) without having to buy lenses--these functions are part of the built-in lens. There are also two macro modes built in : normal and super. In normal mode you can get something like 20 cm from the subject, which isn't great. The super mode allows a distance of 3 cm, which allows you to fill the frame with an object a mere 21 x 28 millimeters. For a point and shoot, the Olympus is very versatile, and you can also buy additional lenses for it, including 187 and 330 mm telephoto lenses and an 18.9 mm wide angle, but you first have to attach an adapter.

As for resolution, yes the Olympus does have higher megapixels than the canon. SLR's typically have "cleaner," less processed images, but the Olympus still has excellent image quality. SLR's are generally for serious photographers--advanced amateurs and pros. However, the Olympus here is so capable and SLR-like that it really is a compelling alternative for someone who doesn't want the price tag of an SLR, but still wants an extremely capable camera that will do everything they want it to.

The auction you showed is a good deal, if you want to really get into serious photography. The camera by itself though you can get for about $350 +s/h. The main thing that auction offers is the two lenses--the wide angle and telephoto. You just need to decide on what you want to do with the camera, and if a 27mm wide angle and a 110 telephoto is enough for you. Anyway, do some research. How much camera is enough for your needs, and what are you needs? The website I gave you has links to numerous other sites that give reviews of these and many other cameras.

WYSIWYG
07-03-2005, 03:19 PM
Thanks again, Venom. Seems like the SLR is what I want.
I remember a few years ago, I got to borrow our photojournalism camera, which was some sort of Canon. At the time, they were running about $2500 - $3000. So I imagine the Canon Rebel is much closer than that as I really don't want to look through some display. I want to look through it like I do with my regular camera. :)

That's a BIG factor for me, so thank you for clearing that up.

I have been looking at the site, but to be honest with you, it's so full of info, it puts me on information overload and confuses the heck out of me. But I'll keep looking at it. I need to find out if there is some kind of adaptor so that I can use my Pentax lenses with it. Then, instead of spending the money on the Olympus and all that other stuff, I can go with the Canon. (Too bad I haven't found a good Pentax dig, but I'm still looking).

I think today, we'll just go to the camera shop where I got my Pentax. They always seem to have the best prices and their extended warranty is nice.

For now, I'm going to go look at that site again and see what it says about Pentax and if they even have an affordable dig with all the features I want. :)

Thanks a bunch! :)

Wysi

Venom
07-03-2005, 03:24 PM
A couple other good sites are:

www.dpreview.com

www.dcresource.com

These should get on the road to understanding the techno jargon of digital photography, as well as having extremely in-depth reviews on many cameras.

ChrisNCT
07-03-2005, 03:25 PM
The Canon Digital Rebel does not take pictures using the LCD screen. You have to look throught the window like you would do in a regular 35mm camera. MY screen is off until I take apicture, then it will show a preview of the picture just taken.

Dee
07-03-2005, 03:27 PM
Whats a good camera for somebody on a really tight budget? Should I stick to scanning film or invest money in a digital camera. I want pictures of my babies for everyone to see. :3

EDIT: has to be MAC compatible. ^^; Forgot that.

Venom
07-03-2005, 03:33 PM
With the olympus you can use the screen to shoot. It is a fast refresh live feed of what the camera sees-like the lcd screen on a video camera--and its framing is 100% accurate. With the peer-through viewfinder you do have to adjust however, but like I said I think it has markings on the viewfinder lenses that show you where the picture will actually be, so you can still use it to frame.

WYSIWYG
07-04-2005, 12:25 PM
Whats a good camera for somebody on a really tight budget? Should I stick to scanning film or invest money in a digital camera. I want pictures of my babies for everyone to see. :3

EDIT: has to be MAC compatible. ^^; Forgot that.

Hiya,

I would think a digital might be better than scanning in pix from film. I imagine it would depend on the actual quality of the scanner though.

As to me, I went ahead and spent the extra for the Canon Digital Rebel. I found a used one on Ebay. It was less than a year and came with 1 lense. Sure, it doesn't have everything I want, but after spending a smidge over $600 (with shipping), all I need for it is a battery, and then I'm ready to get started.

I just couldn't find anything less expensive with such great reviews. There were a few people who slammed it, but overall, people were really happy with it.

Anyway, I did my research and even the used ones are running close to what the brand new ones are running. That's a good thing, because when I get to the point that I can afford to upgrade to a better camera, I'll be able to sell it and get most of (if not all) my money back out of it. :)

I look forward to "bugging" ya'll with my spider pix soon. :)

Catch ya'll later and thanks for your help.

Wysi

ChrisNCT
07-04-2005, 01:17 PM
Good buy! Any ideas on the lens that it comes with?

WYSIWYG
07-05-2005, 12:08 AM
Good buy! Any ideas on the lens that it comes with?



Canon EFS 18-55mm lens

I imagine that's pretty standard for a camera sold with a lense?
As expensive as it was for me, I doubt I'll be adding a macros or longer
telephoto lense.

It should be interesting to see what I can come up with. One thing I'd like to do is find out what an adapter would cost (if there IS such a thing) so that I can use my k-mount zoom lense (80-200), though I'm not sure that would even work.

We went to the store today and I found a place that actually had this camera in stock. I got to look it over, though I just can't wait to GET it so I can start bugging everyone with it! ;)