Help with my Singapore Blue Female...

yea your right

your right von!!!!..and be care questioning any of the "experts" around here!! cuz them and there "henchmen" love to rip ya a new one!!Remeber they know it all and we (specifically me!)..know nothing!!! Because i havnt traveled to singapore and actually observed or caught the actual spider im raising!!..thanks rochelle..duane and soren for making this "newbie" feel welcomed with my comments and observations!!! ...i love the so called "pros" on this board that make us peons..feel so willing to start a thread and ask..A "dumb" question!!:wall:

I am very sorry for actually trying to deepen the understanding of this animal in this thread. Some of the initial info given about the optimal conditions to keep this animal was downright wrong and would be harmful to the animals and I tried to correct this in order to avoid sad faces and dead spiders in the future.

As for the tone of voice - I replied with a tongue-in-cheek reply to your initial post
which you then replied to with more pointing fingers - but entirely missing the point. I then used the next two postings to explain why your argumentation is not really useful and gave you further info how to deepen your argumentation and knowledge of your animal in the process. And now you feel bad because you didn't get applause for your postings? Nowhere did I see any helpful communication from you - only some vague arguments about why you thought I was wrong - which you based on the behavior of your one captive animal?

Noob or not, you might want to look into how to do a constructive argumentation when entering a discussion forum.

Regards
Søren

mattnsariah said:

your right von!!!!..and be care questioning any of the "experts" around here!! cuz them and there "henchmen" love to rip ya a new one!!Remeber they know it all and we (specifically me!)..know nothing!!! Because i havnt traveled to singapore and actually observed or caught the actual spider im raising!!..thanks rochelle..duane and soren for making this "newbie" feel welcomed with my comments and observations!!! ...i love the so called "pros" on this board that make us peons..feel so willing to start a thread and ask..A "dumb" question!!:wall:

Click to expand...

As a relative newbie myself, I remember with dismay the first time I tried to help someone and was contradicted by a more knowledgeable keeper.

I was mortified that not only was I contradicted, but that it was done in public, though I eventually realised that the correction was intended for the good of the animal, and for other keepers who might read my well-intentioned (but incorrect) suggestions.

mattnsariah, please don't lose your enthusiasm and committment or the whole hobby loses; but step back and you'll see that Soren has not insulted you intentionally. He is one of Europe's most respected T Keepers with many years of experience and I've never known him to castigate any other keeper, newbie or expert alike. He has corrected you in open forum - which is never fun! - but hey(!), that's exactly the right place to do this, for the benefit of the rest of us. We're all in this for the spiders, right?

Just a thought, my friend...

Soren, Tarcan, Eman, Lelle and many others have observed spiders in the wild. Their advice goes well before any other gathered from reading or captive observation.

I don't see the point of contradicting them based on behaviors in a glass enclosure far removed from the real natural conditions. It's like when children go mad after their cat for catching a bird, like if it was some gruesome unnatural act.
In their mind the thing eats only Puss N Boots!!!!

Only nature can supply real behavioral clues. What we most commonly see is the animal's adaptation to captivity. But some people go way too far. Most people here are pretty reasonable, but elsewhere...pfeeew!!!

I have heard the story of a strict vegan woman almost killing her cat by forcing it to go vegan. When the vet advised her to give meat to her pet she replied that she'll never give something unhealthy like meat , that will surely make her pet sick. Some people are absolutely shocked to see that some animals are far removed from the disneyesque idilly image they made up in their minds. Some people are actually shocked to learn that wild cats and dogs kill others animals to feed (of course nothing was killed to make the puss n boots or their bimacs or else).

It's a natural tendency to believe that the domestic behavior is the real one and to disregard whatever occurs in the wild. Mistakes made by our fellow arachno keepers are not that bad when I compare to the rest of the population finaly!

to revive the topic.

Phormiglous...how come you seem to refer to both C. sp 'blue' and L. violaceps as the same spider?

Because its the same spider

You beat me to it Frøik ;-) The Cyriopagopus sp. "Blue" has merely been a work name until the identification were established. And the this species has been identified by Volker von Wirth as L. violaceopes. And I concur wholehearted with his id as I have examined Abrahams paratypes of L. violaceopes in Singapore in 2004 and they were identical to the pet trade C. sp. "Blue". So the official name is actually Lampropelma violaceopes.

Regards
Søren

LOL...I've seen C. sp. blue and L. violaceps on dealers lists. Is it possible hobby violaceps are a different locale than the ones known as C. sp. blue?

Are their any other Cyriopagopus/Lampropelma that are bluish in color? It eems some peoples photos show very blue spiders, whereas others(presumably younger ones under 4 inches) are not so blue. Many photos also show turquoise/purple.

One of the problems is that other spiders has been offered for sale as L. violaceopes. But only the C. sp. "Blue" fits the description.

The blue color only appear with maturity and tends to deepend with age, so that young specimens are more lilac with a olive/tan carapace, whereas mature females are more of a royal/midnight purple with a dark carapace. The males are green ;-) The flash and camera also alter the blue, in particular asian digicams tend to add more blue to the photo.

Regards
Søren

dtknow said:

LOL...I've seen C. sp. blue and L. violaceps on dealers lists. Is it possible hobby violaceps are a different locale than the ones known as C. sp. blue?

Are their any other Cyriopagopus/Lampropelma that are bluish in color? It eems some peoples photos show very blue spiders, whereas others(presumably younger ones under 4 inches) are not so blue. Many photos also show turquoise/purple.

Click to expand...

How confusing!

But can I be correct in saying...

The scientists/taxonomists know the genuses Cyriopagopus/Lampropelma very well. The hobbyists have been sticking names onto all the manner of imports without checking with the type specimens.

I think these are probably the most affordable true blue spider...but it might be helped along by the fact that the juvies are not very impressive.

But I bet if the juvie colors were on a terrestrial those guys would be swooning. *ducks and runs*

Some researchers know the arboreal ornithoctoninae reasonably well, but for most it's a mess ;-)

Fot the scientific names and the pet trade names, they are most often not the same. As you mention an importer sticks a name to a spider without checking keys nor types and the name sticks. Additional problems arises when another dealer stick the same name to another species of spider ... this has happened at least twice with L. violaceopes. Originally for H. lividum, which were sold intially as L. violaceopes, and later due to a misidentification the spider Ornithoctoninae G. sp. "Haplopelma robustum" were sold as L. violaceopes (and now by the equally wrong dealer name - in brackets).

The juvenile may not be very impressive - but then again they don't stay like that for very long as you can mature a female in less than 2 years ;-) Which is the reason for the low price = fast growth, easy to breed and medium size batches ;-)

Regards
Søren

dtknow said:

How confusing!

But can I be correct in saying...

The scientists/taxonomists know the genuses Cyriopagopus/Lampropelma very well. The hobbyists have been sticking names onto all the manner of imports without checking with the type specimens.

I think these are probably the most affordable true blue spider...but it might be helped along by the fact that the juvies are not very impressive.

But I bet if the juvie colors were on a terrestrial those guys would be swooning. *ducks and runs*

Click to expand...

Ornithoctoninae sp.

Soren: So for those of us who have the burrowing theraphosid mis-identified as: L. violaceopes, these specimens should be re-labeled as: Ornithoctoninae sp. until such time as the species ID is further clarified? Thanks for the help.
Di

Not to hijack this thread even further, but do L. violaceopes have tibial apophysis, Soren? (And how do we get the / into your name? )