An unfortunate find…

I just processed the execution bit....sorry to hear that.
For future refence Ive found that a night or three of arid conditioins kills the 'todes and then manual removal in necessary. Once they find a nice damp cavity it seems to be over....= (. Those pics must go into any future T books along wiht the accounts.

Nich said:

I just processed the execution bit....sorry to hear that.
For future refence Ive found that a night or three of arid conditioins kills the 'todes and then manual removal in necessary. Once they find a nice damp cavity it seems to be over....= (. Those pics must go into any future T books along wiht the accounts.

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Please share your method of curing nematodes. I was under the impression that they were more of an internal problem and only emerged to lay eggs whether on the spider itself or in the enclosure and that manual removal was only marginally effective.

Nematodes and mites are two different things. Mites are parasites that will suck the tarantula dry from the outside and actually need moist conditions to live because they absorb water through their exoskeleton.

Nematodes (at least the ones in question) eat the spider from the inside out and have tough eggs that are meant to withstand almost any condition before they hatch.

Either way, drying out the enclosure should do next to nothing as nematode eggs are practically unkillable. Spreading of nematodes amongst collections has been documented in keepers who keep their enclosures bone dry with only a water dish.

Randy, be sure to kill anything that could make it's way from one enclosure to another. Phorid flies, fungus gnats, friut flies...they can all transmit eggs on the pads of their feet in a similar (if not identical) manner that cockroaches transmit foodbourne illnesses.

May I ask what species is it, and if you ever fed it any wild...

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Acanthogonathus francki (prob. WC), and we would never feed any wild prey.

Randy, be sure to kill anything that could make it's way from one enclosure to another. Phorid flies, fungus gnats, friut flies...they can all transmit eggs on the pads of their feet in a similar (if not identical) manner that cockroaches transmit foodbourne illnesses.

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If it flies it dies, and we've changed out all substrate in every cage as a precaution. While some remote possibility exists that this could be transmitted, I don’t believe it’s a significant concern considering the circumstances. But I'm as vigilant as I can be right now.

Have you considered manual removal of them?

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The issue wasn’t “can this one be saved” (and I agree your described treatment method doesn't seem sound), it's “what is the risk to the collective to even try”? Either way, I feel it was too advanced in this case to consider treatment.

thanks for the pics. those great.
Those will help alot of T owners.:clap:

Nich said:

Have you considered manual removal of them? Saved a pede or 2 form mites ans otherr nasties ime. Wosrt comes to worst just dry out the enclosure....has worked for me.

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Yeah, I too would like to hear how you go about doing this. As was already stated, nematodes are *not* mites.
In tarantulas, nematodes are injested...thus, taken into the stomach where they lay eggs and release a bacteria (I hope I'm remembering this correctly) that the offspring feed off of. Thus, the offspring grow, lay eggs, and the cycle continues. They mass reproduce inside the tarantula's stomach until the spider is so complely consumed they start *falling out* via the mouth and anus.
RIESM has been working on a fix for nematode infestation....I hope they get it mastered soon.

Drying out the container would, IMO not be very effective, seeing as how the nematodes are *inside* the spider's body. The spider would suffer from the effects of dehydration long before the nematodes would.

wonderfvl said:

I don't know much about them, but the insect killing kinds are being used in agriculture. Apparently, nematodes are everywhere. Check out this site which lists "CURRENT USE OF NEMATODES AS BIOLOGICAL INSECTICIDES".

It's kind of scarry to me. There may be some in my refrigerator!

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This is terrifying, I feed my roaches store bought produce almost every day.

Do you think it's really possible for roaches to get nematoads from produce and spread them to my tarantulas?

6StringSamurai said:

This is terrifying, I feed my roaches store bought produce almost every day.

Do you think it's really possible for roaches to get nematoads from produce and spread them to my tarantulas?

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Like any other parasite. Why not.

For those who are unaware, I just wanted to point out that the spider shown here is not a theraphosid ("tarantula").

Some very nice photos of an unfortunate event.

Eric

GoTerps said:

For those who are unaware, I just wanted to point out that the spider shown here is not a theraphosid ("tarantula").

Some very nice photos of an unfortunate event.

Eric

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Don't leave us hanging, do you know what it is?

cheetah13mo said:

Don't leave us hanging, do you know what it is?

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Yeah, Acanthogonathus francki member of the Nemesiidae family.

I thought true spiders had fangs that that point in towards each other. (Apose each other) That looks like they point down like a Therephosid. (Go in the same direction) Is this true or are there some true spiders that have fangs that work the same way?:?

For those who are unaware, I just wanted to point out that the spider shown here is not a theraphosid ("tarantula").

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Maybe someone could move this thread to the correct forum?

The focus of the thread is not the spider but the nematodes. I believe the thread is in the right place.

It is not a true spider, I messed up with my post...
Nemesiidae is a family of the myglamorphs, just like Theraphosidae.

Ok, Thanks for clearing that up. :worship: I wondered about that.

I might have missed it, but if you still have the sample, PLEASE put it in rubbing alchohol or 70% ethanol so that they might be ID'd.

I've tried off and on over the years to get a sample (thanks schlyne!!!) and have access to scopes and parasitologists...

Just a thought.

Dr.Zuum posted a cure here, but it involves some chemistry, but at this point, no risks. Here is HIS quoted protocol:

Originally posted in 12 06 2003,formula normal
and dmso variant created and tested and used in treatments in 2000.
The chemicals are easy to find and obtain.And im only relating my
experience in developing it and use of it.

The dosages were calculated using 100
uninfected test subjects of various species
at 2.5 to 3.5 inches,LDL
was established with those test subjects.
Also im not seeking
laurels or validaton i could care less about that.
Besides its not like anyone that uses something from my
work that proves sucessful for them as well is going to give credit
to me a non Phd anyway.lol
Im doing it for the T and as a test of my proficiency and skill,
in dealing with invertebrates.

I have to say this if the T or other invert is in bad shape,i mean
at deaths door then the medication is
going to kill it.But if its still strong or at
least mobile it should work, various formulas
were tried a lot of Ts died to get one that didnt kill right off the
bat.
The following formula
worked best for nematodes and thier associated bacteria.
26 infected Ts were given it 17 lived no sign of
nematodes afterward.

I dont consider this treatment perfect but it is a ongoing cure,as
T's that were infected by me on purpose are alive and no longer
infected.
The formula below kills them within 5 to 13 days depending on the
seriousness of the infection early treatment is best.


polymyxin b 1/2gram

neomycin sulfate 1/2 gram

maracyn II 1/4 gram

oxylinic acid 10 microgram

I found out in my earlier uses of this with parasite treatment in
centipedes that i was using way too much big time over kill.

Mix with 4 oz distilled water. Store in fridge will
keep 15 days to 1 month depending on sterility during mixing and
temp before maracyn goes bad.Use light proof bottle with eyedropper.

Dosing, the following are various methods of dosing
depending on the Ts condition.

If eating, withhold food and water 24 to 48 hrs
depending on your Ts schedule or eating habit.
This is just to start,waterdish can be maintained in cage.The
secondary
effect of the maracyn 2 is increased appetite.

method 1
10 cc syringe, 1cc per cricket total of 2 crix
or 2cc for one big large crix or roach feeder inject it into them
then feed.

method 2
1 round drop equals 1 cc standard eyedropper,
using a deli cup(the 4 or 5 inch tall ones you know potato salad
type.)
fill with paper towel to within 1 inch and a quarter of the rim,
(this is general,youre trying to match the filling
to leave just enough room for the T) once done
place over T slide lid sideways gently allowing
the T to step up onto it. Place lid in position T
will be immobilized upside down when you turn
the cup up.Have a small hole precut in the lid
about 1 inch from the rim, turn lid to
positon hole over mouth administer 1 to 2
drops over a period as it drinks it up.
(ldl is 12 to 15 drops)

Method 3 involves direct injection but
im not going to give it. I
gave a guy a method for getting
a stuck sling out of a moult and
he ended up tearing it apart.
I still feel bad about that.
My manual dexterity is well above
average,and my hands dont shake,
ive done procedures from zooanthellae grafts
in coral,to resecting fish intestines.
Thats not something everybody
can duplicate so rather than have
somebody attempt and botch it forget
it direct injection takes more
than just husbandry skills no,
disrespect intended.

Method 4 involves dmso And i dont think dmso is a good idea for the
general public to use.
Even though its readily available.Use 1 tablespoon of pure dmso
pharmaceutical grade the other solvent grade horse crap has too many
impurities in it and they will hinder the drugs its piggybacking
took more than 1 B.smithi to find that out.

Give once in the morning once at night,can be sprayed directly on T
or used with any of the above methods.
for no less than 1 to 5 days,check for infestation
joints,mouthparts,anus,etc.daily.
If clear discontinue use, during treatment also give
fresh water between doses.Whether returned to tank or kept
immobilized.

Nich said:

I just processed the execution bit....sorry to hear that.
For future refence Ive found that a night or three of arid conditioins kills the 'todes and then manual removal in necessary. Once they find a nice damp cavity it seems to be over....= (. Those pics must go into any future T books along wiht the accounts.

Click to expand...

So you're saying that you've had spiders infested with nematodes and you've managed to save them by drying them out?

Randy - excellent image. I do hope that it hasn't already spread to anything else in your collection. Personally, I'd isolate anything else that I suspected of possibly being infected and would drop it in alcohol the moment any others proved to suffer the same fate.

Good luck.

Becca

becca81 said:

So you're saying that you've had spiders infested with nematodes and you've managed to save them by drying them out?

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I think he's mistaken nematodes for mites or something.:?
It wouldn't make any sense that drying out would kill them, the things live inside the T.

Personally, I'd isolate anything else that I suspected of possibly being infected

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I don't suspect anything else is infected. As I've mentioned - this spider was not mine. We had it, along with a few others for a few weeks prior, and they was kept isolated in another part of the room (All visting tarantulas were moved to a different room far away the hour this one was found). Additionally we don’t keep live prey items in the house, thus we also don’t really have any flies to speak of (as a possible vector). But as a precaution we dumped everyone’s substrate, replaced it with dry, and hung lots of fly paper.

I’d be very surprised if anything made it over to my guys – we’ll see over the next few weeks to a month, but the chances aren’t very high to my mind.

As far as treatment goes – Unless you literally do a close check daily (we check our 75 speicmens about every 5 days), saving one would be tough. Whatever this guy had, it took him fast, as it was near death within 2-3 days of showing outward signs.

Look at the second photo again. The large mass to the right of the photo appears to be a maggot of some sort while the smaller white nematodes are clustered around it. It looks like a case of dual parasitism, with one species possibly being opportunistic, taking advantage of the spider's weakened condition. If the specimen can be preserved and examined by a parasitologist, the results should prove interesting. Sorry about the loss, but thanks for the great pics.