Spider Identification please?

tarantula3898

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Messages
48
When I was a kid my buddy found this spider in the forest about 10 miles outside of Milwaukee. We searched for days on the net trying to match a picture to this guy. Our best 2 matches was a wolf spider and Tegenaria agrestis.
Well I was digging in the closet and found this old photo and was hoping someone could solve my age old mystery. I am a little more knowledgeable now, and my best guess is Tegenaria gigantica, but I can only make that guess from net pics.
Hope you have better luck than I have.
 

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tarantula3898

Arachnopeon
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Messages
48
Bump............

I'm bumping this in hopes that someone can help me out with some good solid Gigantea pics. I have found some decent Hobo, and Domestic pics and there is no way it is one of them. I'm going to add that this spider at some point was longer than 2 quarters, and that it's body size alone was slightly longer than a single quarter.

Found in the woods just outside Milwaukie, Oregon.
 

ErikWestblom

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
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Apr 19, 2008
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533
Yeah looks like Tegenaria duellica (same as Tegenaria gigantea), but the Tegenaria species are very similar, so a positive ID might be hard :(
 

Placeboani2

Arachnoknight
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Aug 16, 2009
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190
I don't think thats a T.duellica. T.duellica tend to have a yellow pattern on their abdomen, Not sure what it could be, but im sure it isnt duellica..
 

Ciphor

Arachnoprince
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Sep 2, 2011
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1,640
I don't think thats a T.duellica. T.duellica tend to have a yellow pattern on their abdomen, Not sure what it could be, but im sure it isnt duellica..
In England, you guys have a far greater variety of Tegenaria sp. then here in the states. It's also very important to understand Placeboani2, that morphology is most impacted by location, for example; T. agrestis is more commonly dark brown in WA, making it hard to distinguish from T. gigantea to the untrained eye, while the further east the spider is found, it tends to be much more tan in color, with less well defined wishbone markings. This is true for all spiders, and in some species, the actual markings themselves vary based on geographical location.

Here is a T. agrestis from Utah http://bugguide.net/node/view/13441/bgimage
Compare with a T. agrestis in the PNW http://bugguide.net/node/view/600343/bgimage where you can plainly see with the naked eye, that it has more contrast, and a more well defined wishbone pattern. Now this is not true for the whole population, but is instead what we generally see the most often when comparing the two regions collections. As you can imagine, this effect can be seen when the same spider is found on two different continents, and sometimes, they change so much, that you will start to find sub-species.

Here is what I can tell you from my experience.

Only one species is considered to occur in your area T. domestica, though you may very well have hobos as they continue to spread eastward. That spider definitely is not T. domestica, as it is simply to large, and lacks the banded legs. The two other species of Tegenaria that are found in the US are, T. agrestis (Hobo) & T. gigantea (Giant House Spider). Of those two, it very much looks more like T. gigantea which generally have very dark femurs, while T. agrestis generally has lighter femurs, and the legs darken around the tarsus, kinda like some sac spiders but with far less contrast. It is easier to see with the naked eye, then with a photo for some reason.

Now I have definitely seen some amazingly dark colored hobos, that fooled me at first glance. They get pretty darn big too, and are comparable in size to T. gigantea females. However that is here, and you are there. I suspect if it was a hobo, it would be lighter vs. darker, that being said, I'd bet on two things here. One that spider is most likely T. gigantea, and two, it wound up on your property by way of accidental transportation, as this spider really doesn't do well outside of the PNW here in the states. (a darker hobo getting transported is just as viable, and really, so is a dark hobo just happening to be in your area) You can find out for certain if it is not a hobo, by checking her sternum. If the sternum strip is surrounded with dots, it's definitely not a hobo, making it conclusively a T. gigantea. Unfortunately if spots are not present, it could still be either, as sometimes the spots are to light to see, and it winds up looking like a hobo sternum. Really solid comparison of the sternums on this PDF. http://pep.wsu.edu/pdf/pls116_1.pdf

As a last note, I will say that Giant house spiders do often have a very "Yellowish" hue to their wishbone pattern, but this is far from every case, as I can show you a mountain of photos of Mature Giant house spiders that vary from lots of yellow, to brown, to zero yellow with an almost jet black appearance. I find age also impacts color to a degree, newer mature females tend to be much blacker, turning browner and losing some of the black & yellow as they get close to 12 months as an adult.

This gal for example, seen eating a sub-adult female hobo, was very old when I took this picture. When I first found her, I was excited by how black she was, then slowly she turned browner and greyer up till her death.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/gallery/showimage.php?i=22536&catid=member&imageuser=60981

There are many images of Hobos & Giant house spiders on my gallary if your interested in seeing more.

(EDIT TO ADD: To avoid confusion, T. duellica & T. gigantea are the same spider, the giant house spider. There has been a debate on which nomenclature is correct, that still goes on today.)
 

loxoscelesfear

Arachnoprince
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Messages
1,096
looks like a Lycosid to me. can't see the eye pattern so the mystery will remain a mystery.
 

Ciphor

Arachnoprince
Joined
Sep 2, 2011
Messages
1,640
looks like a Lycosid to me. can't see the eye pattern so the mystery will remain a mystery.
Loxo it is definitely a Tegenaria spp.

There are two patterns that together make it conclusive. Wishbone pattern on abdomen, and the arrow pattern on carapace. Though similar morphology can be found in other species, they are only found together in this genus.

I've literally owned and looked at a lot of these gals.

Also, no wolf spiders have a wishbone pattern, or arrow.
 
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