Why this kind of thing is bad for us all.

[esmoot]

This is a continuation of the "7in. H. gigas bite"

Steve's review was on this site a while back but it may have been removed. It got pretty intense with a lot of back and forth he said she said.

I was going to buy some t's from Steve a few months ago and was about to send him some $$$ but when I saw the review and asked him about it. He that some t's had dies in shipping and that's what started the bad review. I asked him why he thought the t's had died and he said that he has had t's die when he shipped almost every time. I have a good reputation told him to check it out om this site and told him what he was doing wrong in his shipping practices. There was no way I wanted to pay up-front to someone who has many problems with shipping so I asked him to ship first he decided not to so we parted ways.

I believe Steve does have t's because I have seen him post a males needed for 50/50. I'm not picking on a person for no reason but either way he is bad for the tarantula community. If he is telling the truth about the bites, it send a bad message to everyone who hears about it. The doctors, his parents, the people on this site everyone he tells, everyone his parents tell and the story will continue to spread. I can tell you that being bitten twice in a short period by known defensive tarantulas is due to plain stupidity and being irresponsible. It does not really matter if the story is true or not, it still generates unneeded fear and adds negatively to the myths of tarantulas.This can eventually lead to problems for all of us. If he is lying the same thing happen so a smaller scale. There are very few laws regulating our hobby. Let's keep it this way.

[Cooper]

Shouldnt we wait to judge to harshly until we here the true story?

[Vys]

Perhaps jinx stalks him, who knows? If you are going to say the entire man is bad for the community, at least spend some time proof-reading your own post.

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Cooper
Shouldnt we wait to judge to harshly until we here the true story?

Not really.

You lie to your parents about the defensiveness of the Ts you have.
You get bit by an H. maculata and wind up at the hospital.
Your parents order you to get rid of all your Ts because you've lied to them and they're concerned for your health.
You tell them you'll get rid of the aggressive and/or medically significant ones, for some reason this appeases them.
You lied, you just get rid of the Pokies.
You then get bit by an H. gigas a few weeks later.

Even if it's 100% true, this story is just crap for the hobby and is the result of an unprepared kid who is a liar. Still, you tell me who Joe Average is going to blame?

[Vys]

They will blame him if they think like you, so let's both hope like hell they do, and pray to the gods they don't.

[Cooper]

Has he even been on since that last post? Maybe he is still hurt? Code monkey, now that you put it that way I think you are right, this hobby doesnt deserve lieing, unprepared people. I am 14, and have been dealing with tarantulas for four years, and other exotic animals for several years more. Even now I am just getting my first pokie. I am taking alll the precautions and will be taking NO risks. I believe myself to be responsible enought to deal with these animals. He, however, does not appear to be preapared, ressponsible or "smart"(as in not stu[pid and taking risks) as many on this board.

[Code Monkey]

Exactly, Cooper. There is nothing wrong with kids and teens having Ts. In many ways they are the perfect pet for teens - tolerate neglect, don't need to be played with, and cheap to maintain. I got my first T when I was 11 and, to be honest, didn't know what I was getting (a P. cancerides) but I learned what there was to learn at the time (talking early 80s here) and gave the very fast spider a LOT of respect because I didn't need web boards and care sheets to tell me that it wasn't a loveable hamster.

But, even with the advent of web boards, mailing lists, and a whole extended community, I can say with some certainty that the general public is every bit as ignorant and fearful about tarantulas as they were in 1982 and horrified to find out my mother let me keep those horrible things.

So, the last thing we need is anyone of any age being cavalier about giving these things the respect they need and deserve, and it's even worse when it's a minor because people don't hold young people responsible for their actions all too often. I can even see how some parents would blame the extended community for "drawing their son in" to keeping more and more dangerous specimens.

[deifiler]

Man how petty you all are really amazes me... Having a go at one person for their mistakes, that I can't see how they effect you.

I'm 18, I've had my own spiders since I was 7; spiders prior to that that belonged to my dads. I've never been bitten - hell, urticating hairs havn't even got me. Not once.

Yet if I did get bitten, to you guys I'd just be another statistical stupid kid? Bollocks to that, sorry but I can't see how this kid being bitten twice and keeping these spiders is an invite for you vultures to pick fault at. Maybe he doesn't take caution around the spiders as he should, yes that could be classed as 'he isn't ready for them'. But is it really any of your businesses? How many people on here have bought an "advanced spider" with little experience? Just because they havn't been bitten is that the going qualification? If so, I must be professional now.

If my nasty spiders bit me I wouldn't sell them, my mother wouldn't even suggest it either. She understands I'm responsible enough, and I'm prepared for being bitten one day - if you arn't prepared for that possibility maybe you should think again about keeping them. That statement will cause controversy as it's very ambiguis, so I'd majorly appreciate if none of you use it to start a new bitching arguement towards me, and accept the basic point that it says.

Cooper you're taking risks by even buying one, (yes, by buying ANY spider for that matter) so quit with the pretentious holier than thou attitude. Wow four years of feeding the same spiders now means that you're qualified to own those that can move faster and 'have hot venom'

I most certainly wouldn't appreciate you guys calling me stupid, ignorant and un-educated, and telling me I'm not fit to keep what have been my primary interest from childhood.

[Buspirone]

Originally posted by deifiler
But is it really any of your businesses?

I think he made it our business by posting his lack of competence to the board.

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by deifiler
Man how petty you all are really amazes me... Having a go at one person for their mistakes, that I can't see how they effect you.

Go re-read all of Poecilotheria's posts, read about how he's lied repeatedly to his parents and lied to us on these various boards, read about how he said the Ts were the only thing stopping him from physically beating his father *repeatedly*, and then tell me you've got all these crocodile tears for him. Save the self-righteous BS for someone who might actually deserve it, Poecilotheria is not it, and I am still VERY skeptical that either of the bites were anything more than an attempt at getting attention (he was PM'ing people on this board and others trying to buy more Ts at the same time he was having a firesale in the classifieds because he was getting out of the hobby).

[Cooper]

Cooper you're taking risks by even buying one, (yes, by buying ANY spider for that matter) so quit with the pretentious holier than thou attitude. Wow four years of feeding the same spiders now means that you're qualified to own those that can move faster and 'have hot venom'

I know I am taking a risk, I am just taking the necessary precautions so that I probably wont get bit. My point wasnt that I was taking care of the same old spiders. I am constantly getting new ones and am no starnger to old world tarantulas. I have a H. "longipedum" and an OBT among others for comparison. I have gloves, tongs and a locking container with a narrow opening. And of course what he is doing is all of our business. What if someday he gets bit by a pokie or something and goes into anaphylactic shock and dies? That will attract a lot mnore media attention than a care crash that kills four. It might become illegal to keep these creatures. Do you want that? As code said, look at his posts! He does not seem to be responsible or "stable" enought to have these animals! He does not seem to live in a happy home and he said it himself he get into tarantulas because it pissed off his stepdad! That is not the right way to get in to hobby at all.......

[sunnymarcie]

There are very few laws regulating our hobby.
Let's keep it this way.


I agree with the above statement.
Being a parent of 5 I know kids go through a lot of crap.
My step-son went through his share.

I think this kid needs someones help, not the knocking around
he gets here.

He is NOT ready for T's, not by a long shot!

He needs to take care of HIMSELF first.

[Code Monkey]

Originally posted by Buspirone
I think he made it our business by posting his lack of competence to the board.

Somehow I missed this post earlier, but I agree 100%.

You post something to a publicly accessible board you open yourself up to the fallout.

The 1st time he got a 3 page sympathy fest, the 2nd time he gets critiqued.

At what point does it become politically correct to criticise whether someone has any business keeping Ts, or if they're even being honest about their T keeping experiences, the 3rd bite report in a month, the 4th? In the space of 2 weeks we got a bite report for a H. maculata and a H. gigas, all we need is some kind of Pokie thrown in there for the triple crown of tempting fate.

[MrDeranged]

Originally posted by deifiler
Man how petty you all are really amazes me... Having a go at one person for their mistakes, that I can't see how they effect you.

Maybe here in the US we'd rather not have Pet Activists demonstrating outside of every animal show so that they're all closed down. We don't have any Federal rules regulating the trade at this time and would rather keep it that way.

I'm 18, I've had my own spiders since I was 7; spiders prior to that that belonged to my dads. I've never been bitten - hell, urticating hairs havn't even got me. Not once.

Good, that shows that you're either a keeper who takes precautions when working with his spiders or someone who has been extremely lucky

Yet if I did get bitten, to you guys I'd just be another statistical stupid kid? Bollocks to that, sorry but I can't see how this kid being bitten twice and keeping these spiders is an invite for you vultures to pick fault at. Maybe he doesn't take caution around the spiders as he should, yes that could be classed as 'he isn't ready for them'. But is it really any of your businesses? How many people on here have bought an "advanced spider" with little experience? Just because they havn't been bitten is that the going qualification? If so, I must be professional now.

Not at all, personally, I think you're one of the more knowledgeable keepers on the boards. We can pick fault when he proves to us that he didn't learn his lesson well enough the first time he got bit about 2 weeks ago.

As Buspirone said, when he posts about it on the boards it's our business. If his parents are the type of people to sue the store that sold him the T and to bring media attention to it that might get us rules like some countries over in Europe have, yes it's our business.

Not getting bitten isn't a qualification, but it's a start

If my nasty spiders bit me I wouldn't sell them, my mother wouldn't even suggest it either. She understands I'm responsible enough, and I'm prepared for being bitten one day - if you arn't prepared for that possibility maybe you should think again about keeping them. That statement will cause controversy as it's very ambiguis, so I'd majorly appreciate if none of you use it to start a new bitching arguement towards me, and accept the basic point that it says..

I agree with you on this one. Everyone who keeps T's should be prepared for being bitten one day. It's one of the risks you take in keeping an undomesticated animal (sometimes even a risk with domesticated ones). I don't see anything ambiguous about your statement. Not only should you be prepared to be bitten, you should also be prepared to take any blame upon yourself. What it comes down to is that we're keeping "wild animals" and they can revert to that "wild" state at any time. It's not their fault if they act according to their instincts...

I most certainly wouldn't appreciate you guys calling me stupid, ignorant and un-educated, and telling me I'm not fit to keep what have been my primary interest from childhood.

You would have every right to not appreciate it But getting bit 2 times in 2 weeks means one of 2 things:

1. You're not giving T's the respect they deserve by being careless around them and shouldn't be keeping them.

2. You're extremely unlucky and might want to rethink keeping "significant" (bitey or "hot") species.

Scott

[Mojo Jojo]

I'm not a computer genius, but is there anyway to trace where this dudes internet connection is coming from?


Jon