Avicularia variations...

Telson · Aug 11, 2003

As we all know all too well, it's not uncommon to pick up a T from a local pet store and wind up with something other than we thought we were getting. I recently (well, about 2 months ago or so anyhow) bought a T sold as a juvanile Avicularia avicularia. Not being well versed on the various ssp. of Avicularia, I was looking at a link that shows some of the various Avics on the market in hopes of seeing what the others look like and which is which, and for the life of me I fail to see a noticable difference between Avicularia geroldi, Avicularia velutina, Avicularia braunshauseni, and the "common" Avicularia avicularia!!

The pics I'm reffering to are here: http://www.vogelspinnenwelt.de/arten2.htm

Can someone enlighten me? What is the identifiable traits of each of these that would allow an owner to know for certain what he has? Also, since they appear to be so extremely similar, why do some of them cost so much more than the A. avic??

Hairyspider · Aug 11, 2003

try this one

www.birdspiders.com

This site is better, the pic shows the diff, ever so slight they may be.

Later

William

Code Monkey · Aug 11, 2003

Re: try this one

Originally posted by Hairyspider
www.birdspiders.com

This site is better, the pic shows the diff, ever so slight they may be.

Except that the only one pictured is the braunshauseni because I know Rick West doesn't consider geroldi a valid species and if my memory is working right, ditto for velutina. Geroldi is believed by many/most who know their stuff to just be a minor color morph of A. avicularia and I think the same goes for velutina, but don't quote me on that last one.

As for why they cost more, welcome to the wacky world of tarantula selling. Because so many people get caught up in the fun of collecting them like baseball cards or comics, if you can convince somebody that this blue-green tarantula with the blue-tipped guard hairs is really different than this blue-green tarantula over here with just dark blue-green guard hairs, you can not only sell 2X the tarantulas, but charge more while you do it.

The Avic I'm scratching my head at right now is the P.R. pinktoe (laeta) that has recently become available in number. OK, so it starts off looking much like a versicolor, that's good, and it gets people to buy it. But then it grows up into one of the most, if not *the* most bland Avic out there - but it commands prices higher than a versicolor simply because people say "it's rare".

Lopez · Aug 11, 2003

Re: Re: try this one

Originally posted by Code Monkey
Except that the only one pictured is the braunshauseni because I know Rick West doesn't consider geroldi a valid species and if my memory is working right, ditto for velutina. Geroldi is believed by many/most who know their stuff to just be a minor color morph of A. avicularia and I think the same goes for velutina, but don't quote me on that last one.

As for why they cost more, welcome to the wacky world of tarantula selling. Because so many people get caught up in the fun of collecting them like baseball cards or comics, if you can convince somebody that this blue-green tarantula with the blue-tipped guard hairs is really different than this blue-green tarantula over here with just dark blue-green guard hairs, you can not only sell 2X the tarantulas, but charge more while you do it.

The Avic I'm scratching my head at right now is the P.R. pinktoe (laeta) that has recently become available in number. OK, so it starts off looking much like a versicolor, that's good, and it gets people to buy it. But then it grows up into one of the most, if not *the* most bland Avic out there - but it commands prices higher than a versicolor simply because people say "it's rare".

Agreed, especially regarding Avicularia laeta. I was enthralled when I saw the spiderlings, but the adults are plain beyond belief. Very disappointing.

SpiderTwin · Aug 11, 2003

I have most of the Avic's except for a couple, the couple I don't have is the A. braunshauseni and the A. laeta. The reason I don't have these is for the reason you gave, they just look too much like the other Avic's or in the case of the A. laeta they are too plain.

With the A. geroldi you can tell a difference, they are entirely blue/green without the red. As for them being a color morph of the A. avic, who knows, could be but I like the A. geroldi just the same.

A. velutina? Never heard of it:?

Telson · Aug 17, 2003

Looked at birdspiders.com....

Yup.... Avicularia geroldi & Avicularia velutina not listed, Avicularia braunshauseni, and the "common" Avicularia avicularia pics are almost identical there too.

Although A.avics are kewl looking, docile, and have the added attraction of potentially keeping a number in a single enclosure for an awesome display, the only ones that truely strike my interest are A.versicolor, and A.minatrix. I'm seriously thinking of adding these two species to my "must have" list.

Steve Nunn · Aug 17, 2003

Originally posted by Telson
Avicularia braunshauseni, and the "common" Avicularia avicularia pics are almost identical there too.

Rick West has mentioned he thinks these may be synonymised too, if the genus ever gets reviewed, so I'm not surprised you couldn't see a difference. I've heard A.braunshauseni get bigger then A.avicularia though, although this doesn't really mean too much.

Cheers,
Steve

Aviculariinae · Aug 18, 2003

is there anyone looking or trying to sort out the avicularia mess

Telson · Sep 1, 2003

New Avics....

Well, I posted a thread the other day regarding my new 20 gal comunal setup... Had one A.avic and the local store got a bunch shipped in of about the same size as mine, so I decided to pick a couple up to try the comunal thing... Picked up 3 though, and "one of these spiders is not like the others".

One of them was a dark chocolate brown, with white tipped hairs all over, a little more "slight" in build though. Dunno if this is the difference between male and female A.avics, or if this isn't an A.avic at all... I REALLY wish I had a digital camera so I could post some pics for everyone to look at and give their impressions.

One more question though... Can anyone tell me why most pics of Avicularia species look so extremely fluffed up when I don't think I've EVER seen one look that "groomed" in real life??

SpiderTwin · Sep 1, 2003

Telson,

I'd be interested to see the pic of the T you just bought.

As for your question, I'm not what you mean by "fluffed" and "groomed". Let me know, the Avics are my fave and any info we can share would be great.

Immortal_sin · Sep 1, 2003

I have both A avic and A braunshauseni, and got them when they were about 1". I cannot tell the difference.
They are now about 3" or so, losing the striped abdomen, and getting adult coloration, and if I let them all loose, and had to ID which was which, I don't think I could.
I'm curious to see what will happen as they mature

greensleeves · Sep 1, 2003

Originally posted by SpiderTwin
As for your question, I'm not what you mean by "fluffed" and "groomed". Let me know, the Avics are my fave and any info we can share would be great.

Maybe T breeders style the T's hair before photographing to make them look more appealing - a little hairspray here, a little teasing there... =D

Greensleeves

Telson · Sep 4, 2003

Originally posted by greensleeves
Maybe T breeders style the T's hair before photographing to make them look more appealing - a little hairspray here, a little teasing there... =D

Greensleeves

LOL!! Some pics I would say almst look like it!!

I'm hoping to fit a decent camera in to my budget soon and when I do I'll definately start tossing pics to pages. This unknown just molted though, and is still a deep chocolate brown rather than the typical black I've seen on A.avic. I've not been able to get a good look cause it's staying in a log, but maybe nxt payday or the one after that, I'll be able to get a decent camera.

On that subject, I need to know more about what to buy in order to get really good pics of slings and close ups of features on my T's. What exactly IS "macro" and what features should I look for in a camera that will primarily be used to high detail closeups at very close range? I'm looking at one with a 3.5 optical zoom, and a 3x digital zoom, 2 megapixel. Dunno anything about macro though and need to know if that's something they list as a feature, how it works, etc... Does this one sounds like a decent camera for about $160?

greensleeves · Sep 4, 2003

Originally posted by Telson

Originally posted by greensleeves
Maybe T breeders style the T's hair before photographing to make them look more appealing - a little hairspray here, a little teasing there... =D

Greensleeves

Click to expand...

LOL!! Some pics I would say almst look like it!!

Oh caligulathegod...

Greensleeves

Michael Jacobi · Sep 4, 2003

A month ago or so, Rick West hinted on the ATS_Enthusiast list that a revision of some of the Avics is in the works. Whether he has any role in that project I do not know, but he does favor synonymizing some of the Avic species in the trade. I got the impression that work on this genus is in progress.

As a retail dealer I would like to defend our position. We purchase these spiders by the same names we sell them as. We pay more on our end just as you pay more at the retail end. As an arboreal tarantula specialist, I find many of these "species" to be distinct as adults, although many are very similar prior to maturity. A. braunshauseni gets larger than A. avic and is typically aggressive instead of docile. Does this make it a different species? Of course not. Possibly it is simply a population of A. avic with an attitude problem and the genetics to produce larger average adults.

The comments regarding A. laeta are very interesting. Yes, they are quite "plain" compared to others (not to mention aggressive), but I'm not sure why that is a bad thing :? - I personally enjoy subtle beauty as much as gaudily colored animals.

greensleeves · Sep 4, 2003

Originally posted by Martin H.
.

hmmm... I still like Avicularia laeta (or that thing what is sold under this name), even as adults:

My, what beautiful eyes!

Greensleeves

Loudog760 · Aug 18, 2009

Very good old school thread.

Mr. Gone · Aug 19, 2009

Loudog760 said:
Very good old school thread.

agreed, some of the best threads on here are from the 2002-2004 era. I wish we had more threads being made like this now. The moderators almost never post anymore.

Avicularia variations...

Telson

Arachnodemon

Hairyspider

Arachnobaron

Code Monkey

Arachnoemperor

Lopez

Arachnoking

SpiderTwin

Arachnoangel

Telson

Arachnodemon

Steve Nunn

Arachnoprince

Aviculariinae

Arachnoangel

Telson

Arachnodemon

SpiderTwin

Arachnoangel

Immortal_sin

Arachnotemptress

greensleeves

Arachnobaron

Telson

Arachnodemon

greensleeves

Arachnobaron

Michael Jacobi

ARACHNOCULTURE MAGAZINE

greensleeves

Arachnobaron

Loudog760

Arachnoknight

Mr. Gone

Arachnosquire