Poecilotheria identification

KelliH · Aug 17, 2003

After reading some of the posts regarding the misidentification of P. miranda, as well as talking with another tarantula enthusiast about Poecilotheria species being misidentified recently, i decided to take a good look at some of my young Poecs.

This spider was sold to me a few months ago as P. subfusca. It recently molted and when I got a good look at it tonight I was surprised to see that it looks identical to my P. ornata. I have a feeling that this is not subfusca at all :-(

another (not very good) picture of the same spider:

I also received a P. formosa in the same shipment, I am pretty sure it is indeed formosa but figured it couldn't hurt to ask for expert opinions. Here it is:

another of the same T:

What do you guys think? I will greatly appreciate any help you can give me.

MrDeranged · Aug 17, 2003

Hey Kelli,

Definitely NOT subfusca. subfusca does not have yellow on the ventral surface of the legs. What you have is either ornata or rufilata. Personally I would go with rufilata. Need a better picture of ventral leg patterns.

Not sure about the second, need ventral leg patterns as well....

Scott

Edit: Thinking about it further, I'm not seeing any blue where I should if it was rufilata. Can you get a better pic of the underside? Leaning towards ornata now.....

KelliH · Aug 17, 2003

Here is a ventral view of the first spider, what do you think?

KelliH · Aug 17, 2003

Yeah, it looks identical to my subadult male P. ornata. Bummer huh. Well, I'll try and get a decent pic of the other one now. Thanks so very much for your help.

KelliH · Aug 17, 2003

Here are a couple of really crappy pics of the other spider that was sold to me as P. formosa. It is quite a bit smaller than the other one so a tad more difficult for me to photograph. Let me know what you think:

Telson · Aug 17, 2003

This spider was sold to me a few months ago as P. subfusca. It recently molted and when I got a good look at it tonight I was surprised to see that it looks identical to my P. ornata. I have a feeling that this is not subfusca at all :-(

Who sold you the T's, and what was the listed price diff between comparible sized P.subfusca and P. ornata (assuming they listed both) ?

I'm certainly not knowlegeable enough about Poecs to determine which is which myself, and I don't know if there is generally much difference in price, but if there is and you got the cheaper T for the higher price I'd be talking to the dealer about what they'll be doing to make up for the mistake... Even if you got the more expensive T for a cheaper price it's still not a deal if it wasn't what you wanted obviously, so I'd still be a bit miffed.

Valael · Aug 17, 2003

I don't own any of the above species, but I'd have to lean towards ornata, also.

From all of the rufilata pictures I've seen, the..er..dorsal (I'm trying to sound all technical like, but I feel like I'm talking about a freaking fish.) of the legs looks more yellow.

P. ornata always seems a bit more orange (Like yours.)

Sucks that you didn't get what you wanted, but I have to confess, I'm jealous -- P. ornatas are probably one of my favorite (Not counting P. miranda and P. metallica)

KelliH · Aug 17, 2003

Yeah, ornata is a beautiful species, I agree.

I am dissapointed that it is not a subfusca though. I am certain it was an honest mistake by the person I got them from, as he is a good guy and very reputable. They were both small slings when I received them, and I am sure he had no idea it was not a subfusca.

Michael Jacobi · Aug 17, 2003

Kelli,

That is definitely Poecilotheria ornata.

All,

I will put a PDF file on my site that is a pictorial key to the genus Poecilotheria using ventral leg patterns. This file is available through the yahoo group Theraphosid_Description_Papers, but you can download it from my site using the following link: <link removed at the request of the original copyright holder -MI>

Henry Kane · Aug 17, 2003

Your second pokie doesn't resemble formosa either. The lighter parts of P. formosa's under side are very pale, almost white. The T in your pics shows a much more vivid yellow. Actually, the top side of P. formosa is quite pale in comparison to your pics as well. Your second pics remind me of P. fasciata. Just my guess though.

Damn shame about the mis-id of the first one. P. subfusca is (in my opinion) the second most beautiful pokie. Ornata is my third favorite though.

Kelli, would you mind pming me where you got them from?

Atrax

Michael Jacobi · Aug 17, 2003

Unfortunately, Atrax is right about the second spider. It appears to be P. fasciata, although I'd like to see a clear photo of the ventral surface of leg IV to be sure. Both P. formosa and P. fasciata have almost no banding on the underside of the femur of Leg IV. In formosa the band is almost absent and in fasciata it is very thin. Also, as pointed out, fasciata has yellow ventrally on Leg I, whereas in formosa the coloration is pale. (P. fasciata has a narrower band on the venter of the femur of Leg I than any other Poecilotheria).

MrDeranged · Aug 17, 2003

Have to agree with the previous concensus and say that based on the ventral patterns of the second T, it's a fasciata, not a formosa.

Scott

Cooper · Aug 17, 2003

What are ventral legs I and IV? Could someone tell me please?

Lopez · Aug 17, 2003

Originally posted by Cooper
What are ventral legs I and IV? Could someone tell me please?

Ventral = The underside view of a spider (Dorsal is the top view, looking down)

Leg I = The first leg after the pedipalp (ie the front leg)

Leg IV = The fourth leg after the pedipalp (ie the back leg)

Henry Kane · Aug 17, 2003

Hi Cooper. Ventral just means the underside. leg 1 would be the first leg next to the pedipalp. leg 4 would be the last leg, closest to the abdomen. this applies on each side of the T. In other words, there is no leg 5 or 8, only 1-4 on each side.
Hope that helps.

Atrax

Henry Kane · Aug 17, 2003

LOL!

Jinx, Lopez. :}

Atrax

Michael Jacobi · Aug 17, 2003

Originally posted by Cooper
What are ventral legs I and IV? Could someone tell me please?

Ventral (venter) refers to the underside (topside=dorsal). There are not "ventral legs", but ventral surfaces OF THE legs.

The legs of a spider are numbered I, II, III, IV from front (anterior/proximal) to rear (posterior/distal) on one side of the spider. In other words the forelegs are Leg I and the hindlegs are Leg IV.

Lopez · Aug 17, 2003

Originally posted by SpiderShoppe
Ventral (venter) refers to the underside (topside=dorsal). There are not "ventral legs", but ventral surfaces OF THE legs.

The legs of a spider are numbered I, II, III, IV from front (anterior/proximal) to rear (posterior/distal) on one side of the spider. In other words the forelegs are Leg I and the hindlegs are Leg IV.

A spider with both dorsal and ventral legs would certainly be worth seeing!

Immortal_sin · Aug 17, 2003

in my limited experience, I'd agree...
bummer about the P subfusca...they are substantially more expensive then ornata too.
I also have P formosa and P fasciata, and would agree that the lower pic resembles P fasciata more as well.
I'd at least ask for the difference back on the ornata for sure!

tarantulakeeper · Aug 17, 2003

Michael, thanks for the ID chart for Poecilotheria. I'm really increasing my numbers of this genus and this is really beneficial. Is there a general instar when the yellow coloration shows up? (if present) John

Poecilotheria identification

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