spider id, nothing special...i dont think

rustym3talh3ad

Arachnoangel
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so this little one has been around the door of my house for the past few nights, and so i figured id take some pics for an ID, it webbed me all up and was kinda cute, i took some pics and then sent it on its way. sorry about the quality.









let me know what u guys think.
 

What

Arachnoprince
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Looks like a very fat Cheiracanthium sp.
 

rustym3talh3ad

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Looks like a very fat Cheiracanthium sp.
sac spider was kind of my first thought but i wasnt sure, i dont really know as much about true spiders as i'd like to know. one thing that i would say about this one that is different from the Cheiracanthium sp. is the fact that this ones chelicerae are not as curved inward. i know that they arent straight (cuz most true spiders do have a slight curve from what i know) but these are not as curved as most sac spiders i see, which is why i questioned the little one in the first place.
 

Venom

Arachnoprince
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Definitely a Cheiracanthium sp., probably the introduced C. mildei ( I'm 85% - 90% sure ). Don't get bitten.
 

Bastian Drolshagen

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hey jsloan,
nice paper you cite there. Is there a PDF version of it on the net? I´d like to have in my DB ;)
 

jsloan

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hey jsloan,
nice paper you cite there. Is there a PDF version of it on the net? I´d like to have in my DB ;)
There's a PDF download link on that page, over on the right. Then, you have to click a second time on the manual download link when another page comes up. It took me awhile, but I was finally able to download a PDF version. Try right-clicking on that second link and using the "Save Target As ..." option to download it to your desktop file.
 

Venom

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The bite of this spider is not really that bad:

http://www.ajtmh.org/cgi/content/full/74/6/1043
I'm really not impressed with that study, sorry. I've seen it before, and it's wrong. I've observed firsthand what the Cheiracanthium spp. are able to inflict. Granted, they're no recluse spiders, but that study swings the pendulum the other way too far by questioning their ability to cause ulcuration/ necrosis. C. mildei is milder in toxicity than C. inclusum, but it's enough to be worth some caution.
 

jsloan

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I'm really not impressed with that study, sorry. I've seen it before, and it's wrong. I've observed firsthand what the Cheiracanthium spp. are able to inflict. Granted, they're no recluse spiders, but that study swings the pendulum the other way too far by questioning their ability to cause ulcuration/ necrosis. C. mildei is milder in toxicity than C. inclusum, but it's enough to be worth some caution.
Excuse me if I don't take your word for it.

I would consider peer-reviewed studies that show properly verified cases of bites which cause necrosis, though. None of that "suspected" or "probable" stuff, please.
 
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Venom

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Think what you like. I have expertise --hands on, real-world expertise-- with this genus. I don't need your agreement.

Nevertheless, here are some references.

Pennsylvania State University, Department of Entomology says:

The bite is usually very painful at the outset, with developing erythema, edema, and pruritus. The burning sensation associated with the bite will last for up to an hour, with rash and blistering occurring during the next 1-10 hours. Some patients may exhibit systemic reactions with fever, malaise, muscle cramps, and nausea. These symptoms are similar to black widow bite symptoms but are much less severe. A necrotic lesion and ulceration may also occur at the site, but this is less serious than the similar symptoms that accompany a brown recluse bite, and it usually does not result in scarring.

From the Field Guide to Venomous and Medically Significant Invertebrates Affecting Military Operations: Identification, Biology, Symptoms, Treatment. 2006.

Yellow sac spiders are aggressive and will bite defensively. The clinical significance of these spiders is not well known, but they have been shown capable of causing a painful bite with associated necrosis and occasionally systemic effects. However, several species of Cheiracanthum have been implicated in human envenomations, and they reportedly are responsible for upwards of 90% of all dangerous spider bites in South Africa.
The number of species of yellow sac spiders which can inflict dangerous bites is not known, but because some species are considered dangerous, all sac spiders should be considered a potential threat. Many reported ―brown recluse‖ bites outside the known range of Loxosceles reclusa in the United States may be due to envenomation by yellow sac spiders or perhaps other spiders. In the United States C. inclusum is native while C. mildei is introduced. Cheiracanthium mildei was first identified as a cause of necrotic arachnidism in 1970, when it was linked with skin lesions in the Boston, Massachusetts area where it is the most common spider found in houses. This species also is common in houses in New York City, and may well be the cause of "brown recluse‖ bites rumors mistakenly reported from that area. In the late 1970's and early 1980's C. mildei produced a significant number of bites in the Provo, Utah area. Similarly, C. inclusum is reportedly responsible for bites in Georgia and southwestern Canada. Bites by C. inclusum are
probably far more common and widespread than reported, and it is likely that more reports will surface as yellow sac spiders become better known as clinically significant species.
Wisconsin State University, Dept. of Entomology says:

Yellow sac spider bites occur most frequently when the very defensive spider is trapped in clothing. Sac spider bites are not considered as serious as those of the brown recluse or hobo spiders. The severity of bites varies greatly. Typical symptoms of a bite include an immediate stinging sensation (like a hornet sting), followed by redness and mild swelling. Sometimes the bite will make a person mildly ill or result in a blister, which often breaks, leaving a sore that heals over a period of several weeks.
Utah State University says:

These spiders show more aggression than other spiders, and may bite repeatedly if kept in contact with the skin, either by rolling over on one in bed, or by having one stuck inside your clothing next to the skin. The bite is cytotoxic, meaning it can cause skin death, much like a hobo or brown recluse (Loxosceles reclusa), but much less severe.
Initially, bites may be associated with sharp pain, or be painless. Burning at the bite location may occur for 30 to 60 minutes. Occasionally, systemic reactions such as nausea, fever, malaise, stomach cramps, or skin necrosis may occur, but are rare.3 Within 8 hours of the initial bite, a reddened area filled with puss may develop. A noticeable eschar (dead skin tissue that may slough off naturally) may form. In most cases it will come off naturally and the wound will heal in a few weeks.
 
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jsloan

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What I'm asking for are source materials; that is, the papers, studies and evidence from which these web sites drew their information. Have you got links to peer-reviewed, clinical studies showing the necrosis caused by the bites of spiders that were clearly identified by an arachnologist and linked without doubt to the bite? If so, I'd like very much to read those papers.
 
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