result of RF rosea x rosea?

ArachnoJoost

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
530
Hi all,
I've got a question: what would be the result of a normal phase rosea male breeding with a RF rosea female (in terms of spiderlings ofcourse)? I've paired them up last night, and everything went smoothly, much calmer than I had expected.
Here's a pic of the beginning of the mating, after this pic the batteries of my camera died...:mad:
 

Spydra

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Sep 30, 2003
Messages
305
Ohhhh, what a beautiful red color, I would love to have a red phase :D

Renee
 

rosehaired1979

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 14, 2003
Messages
2,900
Well nothing would really happen since they are the same sp. just a different color morph. You will have a better chance of getting the Red Phase sling out of this if she produces a good egg sac and she lets it live. If a egg sac comes out of this and its successful I am in next in line for a Red Phase G.Rosea after Spydra :)
 

greensleeves

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 28, 2003
Messages
557
Here's a question: how long would you have to wait to tell if a rosea sling was red-phase? Wouldn't the thing have to get to juvie size before any of its colours started to ressemble an adult's?

Greensleeves
 

Telson

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
685
Result of RF male and common female:

Lots of yellow slings!;P

(No clue on how long it'll be before I can tell if there's any RF though....)
 

TheDon

ArachnoDon
Old Timer
Joined
Apr 19, 2003
Messages
836
wow the red on your female is amazing... great pic

peace

TheDon
 

Telson

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
685
Yah, that is a great looking female you got there. I hope you get a good batch of slings out of her!:D
 

ArachnoJoost

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
530
Originally posted by rosehaired1979
Well nothing would really happen since they are the same sp. just a different color morph.
I knew that, otherwise I would not have mated them, don't wanna crossbreed.
You will have a better chance of getting the Red Phase sling out of this if she produces a good egg sac and she lets it live. [/B]
That's what I was interested in, what would the offspring be, red phase or normal, or 50/50. Does anyone have experience with this?
@Telson: was that a RF/normal breeding? Guess it is still too early to tell if there are any RF's in the bunch. Nice photo!
 

Telson

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
685
Yah. Pappa was a RF and mama-san was a common color morph. I didn't get the camera until after I bred them and gave the male to Scott of Scott's Tarantulas, here in town, as he has several females he wanted to breed with a fresh blood line. I wish I'd taken some pics of him, but I might get him back when Scott is done with him. I have no idea if a red phase is even needed in the mix to wind up with some RF slings... I'd imagine it should increase the odds of getting some RFs though. Anyone know how long before G.rosea start showing their colors? Would it be like 3 months, or closer to a year? I've never had a CB G.rosea, much less a hatchling sling, so I'm at a loss to estimate this. Anyone with experience, please chime in. Thanks.:D

On another note, I've seen Latrodectus and other true spiders lay more than one eggsack between molts. Is there any chance that my female G.rosea might lay more eggs now that the sack has been snatched? If another pairing is required to get another sack out of her, would it be inadvisable to do so (after fattening her back up of course), or should I wait until her next molt and get another male?
 

Aviculariinae

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
901
I can tell you mate this is frowned upon by some people,I would advise against it but you have already done it you should have just waited and tried to get a RCF male.
Go to the british tarantula society website and you will see a topic about mixing colour forms.

As for what the offspring will look like i do not know,but my guess would be like the mother more so than the male!

Red forms of these sp are quite hard to come by,its a pity its mixed now
 

Lopez

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
2,040
Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas
I can tell you mate this is frowned upon by some people,I would advise against it but you have already done it you should have just waited and tried to get a RCF male.
Go to the british tarantula society website and you will see a topic about mixing colour forms.

As for what the offspring will look like i do not know,but my guess would be like the mother more so than the male!

Red forms of these sp are quite hard to come by,its a pity its mixed now
Sorry Brendan, can't agree with you there.

P murinus has geographical colour variants. This means that you will generally only find orange ones in the Usambara mountain area (possibly due to evolving a new colour to camouflage with acidic red soil?)

G rosea seems to be different - you get many colour types coming from the same eggsac - some red, some normal, some even darker brown. There appears to be no "dilution" or mixing of colours, and parantage doesn't appear to have a great effect either AFAIK
 
Last edited:

Aviculariinae

Arachnoangel
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 30, 2003
Messages
901
P murinus has geographical colour variants. This means that you will generally only find orange ones in the Usambara mountain area
And thats why you don,t mix captive bred colour forms!
Have you being reading about on the bts!

G rosea seems to be different - you get many colour types coming from the same eggsac - some red, some normal, some even darker brown. There appears to be no "dilution" or mixing of colours
I dont know where you heard this but i know you would not come accross a red phase rosea inside a normal phase eggsack!
 

Lopez

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
2,040
Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas
And thats why you don,t mix captive bred colour forms!
Have you being reading about on the bts!
Yes. It doesn't matter with rosea though, having two RF parents will not guarantee an all RF egg sac. This is where they seem to differ from P murinus. As I said, G rosea RCF does not appear to be a "geographical" variant, so your point has no relevance

I dont know where you heard this but i know you would not come accross a red phase rosea inside a normal phase eggsack!
My RF rosea is captive bred and I'm almost certain she came from a sac where both parents were the "regular type"
 
Last edited:

ArachnoJoost

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 6, 2002
Messages
530
Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas
I can tell you mate this is frowned upon by some people,I would advise against it but you have already done it you should have just waited and tried to get a RCF male.
Go to the british tarantula society website and you will see a topic about mixing colour forms.

As for what the offspring will look like i do not know,but my guess would be like the mother more so than the male!

Red forms of these sp are quite hard to come by,its a pity its mixed now
Well, that discussion on the BTS forum was (largely) a discussion between two people, and was about the P. murinus (and later on P. metallica which had nothing to do with mixing colour forms...).
I agree I should have discussed it first, my mistake. I'm interested in this: will the young be either red phase or normal phase, or a mix between the two. If the latter is the case, I agree with you that I should not have bred them.
We'll see,
Joost
 

Lopez

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Feb 18, 2003
Messages
2,040
Originally posted by ArachnoJoost
Well, that discussion on the BTS forum was (largely) a discussion between two people, and was about the P. murinus (and later on P. metallica which had nothing to do with mixing colour forms...).
I agree I should have discussed it first, my mistake. I'm interested in this: will the young be either red phase or normal phase, or a mix between the two. If the latter is the case, I agree with you that I should not have bred them.
We'll see,
Joost
You should get some of each some brown, some red - or maybe no red forms at all.
I did exactly the same as you a couple of months back. If she ever makes a sac I will keep you informed.
 

Telson

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
685
I've read NUMEROUS posts on these boards regarding this, and the common thread has been that G.rosea red phase and G.rosea common color phase are the same species, and that some slings develop in to red phase while others from th same sack develop in to common color phase. I would certainly not cross breed the two color phases of P.murinus, but IMO this is not the same thing.

Additionally, I've spoken with Scott (of Scott's Tarantulas) quite a bit over the course of my breeding these two Ts in the last couple months and he has a theory that red phase G.rosea are possibly no more than a result of their diet. He informs me that he has had WC red phase Ts molt and lose their redish color, becoming a common color phase. He theorizes that something in their natural diet causes them to have this color and over time they can lose this color in captivity.

I bred these two Ts after seeing numerous posts that indicated there is nothing specificly separating red phase from common color phase, and the discussion with Scott came after the breeding had been done already. I must say, I am a bit confused as to how this can be a result of a wild diet if people here have raised captive clutches from the same sack and had some of them color out as red phase. These two claims seem to oppose each other, so either Scott's theory is wrong, or those who have claimed to have raised slings from the same sack to color out into both color phases were mistaken about the sources of the slings, or were making it up. At this time, obviously I have no way to know which is the case, but I'm inclined to think that G.rosea red phase is simply SOME kind of a conditional dimorphism, though I can't say WHAT conditions cause it to occur in some and not in others.

Until someone shows proof that red phase and common color phase G.rosea are somehow separate, as "Usumbara" variant is separate from P.murinus common color phase, I see no reason not to breed them.
 

metallica

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Messages
2,512
I wouldn't have done it! if my normal male would mature, i'd buy a normal female as they cost allmost nothing!! I'd wait for a true red male for this beautifull female! in my oppinion this is a wasted mating!:?
 

Telson

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
685
Originally posted by metallica
I wouldn't have done it! if my normal male would mature, i'd buy a normal female as they cost allmost nothing!! I'd wait for a true red male for this beautifull female! in my oppinion this is a wasted mating!:?
Exactly how and why is this a wasted mating?
 

Telson

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
685
Originally posted by Sham,Tarantulas
Go to the british tarantula society website and you will see a topic about mixing colour forms.
Can anyone provide a link to this please? I would like to read it.
 
Top