Buying WC Tarantulas.

[MexicanRedKnee]

So initially I planned on buying only CB spiders, but lately I've been considering getting some WC a. chalcodes and other USA T's due to the low price and also their very slow growth. My questions are: 1. What differences if any are there in WC T's? Are they eager eaters? Are they more reclusive? More defensive? Any diseases I should worry about? Thanks for your info.

Also, are any of our USA T's threatened?

[Mack&Cass]

Honestly, I make a point not to buy WC, however we do have about 6 WC T's in our collection. Mites are often an issue on WC tarantulas, but the benefit of WC T's is fresh genetics. If you're worried about any parasites/diseases transferring to your other T's, you could always just keep it away from your collection until it molts just to ensure that everything is okay.

As far as behaviour and eating go, I haven't really noticed much difference. Of course, WC specimens are usually at least subadults, so they're not going to eat nearly as much as slings or juvies...especially Aphonopelmas who don't eat as ravenously to begin with (in my experience).

Some people are really against WC just because taking the animal out of their natural habitat, and so on. But if it's for sale, and you don't buy it, someone else will. It would be different if you only bought WC T's, but if you want a larger T but don't want to pay tons of money for it, WC is often the way to go. Buying CB is more expensive for a reason: less of a risk of problems. You just need to remember that they're could be underlying issues, and quarantining is always a good idea until you're sure that it's safe to put with the rest of your collection.

Cass

[jayefbe]

Some people are really against WC just because taking the animal out of their natural habitat, and so on. But if it's for sale, and you don't buy it, someone else will.

That's a really shortsighted way of thinking about things. Buying them will only encourage further collection. Aphonopelma moderatum is being collected to the point that it is of great detriment to wild populations. The only way to combat something like that is to boycott the purchase of them. "If I don't buy it someone else will" is a common refrain (actually, it's more of an excuse) when it comes to some WC species, but at some point people need to respond in an ethical fashion and make a statement by not supporting a habit that may be hurting wild populations.

For the record, I'm very much pro captive breeding but not necessarily against WC. I just hope that those that do purchase WC specimens ensure that they are not being overcollected in their native habitat.

[Mack&Cass]

That's a really shortsighted way of thinking about things. Buying them will only encourage further collection. Aphonopelma moderatum is being collected to the point that it is of great detriment to wild populations. The only way to combat something like that is to boycott the purchase of them. "If I don't buy it someone else will" is a common refrain (actually, it's more of an excuse) when it comes to some WC species, but at some point people need to respond in an ethical fashion and make a statement by not supporting a habit that may be hurting wild populations.

For the record, I'm very much pro captive breeding but not necessarily against WC. I just hope that those that do purchase WC specimens ensure that they are not being overcollected in their native habitat.

The thing is, we can 'boycott' all we want, but that's still not going to do anything, because people are still going to buy them no matter what....how many threads are started on here about tarantulas bought at LPS'? A few a week, at least. And that's just in this community - think of all the people who aren't on here that do it.

I'm not using the statement that "if you don't buy it, someone else will" as an excuse or as permission to go ahead and do it. The truth of the matter is, if it's in a pet store, it's either going to get bought or die...it may die at the pet store or get sent back to the supplier and get passed around until it dies. Do you think that if it doesn't get bought, they release it back into the wild? No. Most suppliers to pet stores, at least around here, are in it for the money...that's why they're going to keep buying WC tarantulas from importers and then continue on to sell them to pet stores, because people continue on buying them. It's the same with fish, and with reptiles.

If someone is against buying WC, then they can do their part by not buying T's from pet stores, standing up for what you believe in is extremely honorable, but unless an extreme majority of people refrain from buying WC T's, then they're going to keep being collected. The best we can hope is that if something does start being overcollected, then they'll be placed on CITES like B. smithi, and like G. rosea should be.

It's the same thing with fur, for example. I don't agree with wearing real fur, but lots of people drop tons of money on it, so I highly doubt animals are going to stop being farmed for their fur.

As long as there's a market for it, it's going to keep happening. It sucks, but it's true.

Cass

[Kirsten]

The thing is, we can 'boycott' all we want, but that's still not going to do anything, because people are still going to buy them no matter what....how many threads are started on here about tarantulas bought at LPS'? A few a week, at least. And that's just in this community - think of all the people who aren't on here that do it.

I'm not using the statement that "if you don't buy it, someone else will" as an excuse or as permission to go ahead and do it. The truth of the matter is, if it's in a pet store, it's either going to get bought or die...it may die at the pet store or get sent back to the supplier and get passed around until it dies. Do you think that if it doesn't get bought, they release it back into the wild? No. Most suppliers to pet stores, at least around here, are in it for the money...that's why they're going to keep buying WC tarantulas from importers and then continue on to sell them to pet stores, because people continue on buying them. It's the same with fish, and with reptiles.

If someone is against buying WC, then they can do their part by not buying T's from pet stores, standing up for what you believe in is extremely honorable, but unless an extreme majority of people refrain from buying WC T's, then they're going to keep being collected. The best we can hope is that if something does start being overcollected, then they'll be placed on CITES like B. smithi, and like G. rosea should be.

It's the same thing with fur, for example. I don't agree with wearing real fur, but lots of people drop tons of money on it, so I highly doubt animals are going to stop being farmed for their fur.

As long as there's a market for it, it's going to keep happening. It sucks, but it's true.

Cass

Sadly, I concur.

[paul fleming]

I did buy a WC S.dichromata from the spider shop but when I realised how they may have been transported,I now do my best to never buy WC.......you just can't be sure how they got to you,no matter what you are told.
Each to their own though and if anyone else wants to buy WC,it is up to them and I have no bad feeling towards them.....it is just a thing I try my best not to do anymore.
I only speak for myself on this matter.....do what feels right.
The thing about "if I don't buy them,someone else will" is pretty shallow.
You could say the same about stolen goods or in fact,anything.
That argument does not wash with me.

[Jilly1337]

I try to buy CB but I've had a couple WC's in the past. They are sometimes in a little rougher shape, ie bald spots...small abdomen. Usually by the next molt they look like any other T. You run the risk of nematodes and mites so you should prob keep it seperate and use seperate tools for a while. If you get a female, they can sometimes be gravid. I was lucky enough to have it happen once with I spider I got at a herp show. I didn't know it was WC when I got it but assumed it was once it laid a sac. I suppose they can be a little more defensive than their CB brethren but that can be attributed to individual temperment differences too.

[Exo]

Also, are any of our USA T's threatened?

Many of them are, at least in some areas, A.moderatum especially.

[paul fleming]

I must also say that breeders do need new stock (WC).......if we are to continue having CB T's
That,in my eyes,only applies to proffesional breeders who are trying to expand the hobby though....and make a few bob as well

[jayefbe]

I'm not using the statement that "if you don't buy it, someone else will" as an excuse or as permission to go ahead and do it. The truth of the matter is, if it's in a pet store, it's either going to get bought or die...it may die at the pet store or get sent back to the supplier and get passed around until it dies. Do you think that if it doesn't get bought, they release it back into the wild? No. Most suppliers to pet stores, at least around here, are in it for the money...that's why they're going to keep buying WC tarantulas from importers and then continue on to sell them to pet stores, because people continue on buying them. It's the same with fish, and with reptiles.

Of course I don't think the T is going to be released back into the wild. But buying them is only going to encourage the stores to continue selling WC T's, which is going to encourage further collection. See how things work? It's easy to just pass the buck, and play it off as if it's a hopeless situation that will never end. In the end, all we can control is our own actions, and for me, that means caring for my T's as best I can, and doing my best to not support anything that may be damaging wild populations of tarantulas. Yes, a lot of naive T owners don't know any better. But that doesn't mean it's ok for those of us who do to support overcollection. Instead, it should be our duty to not support those habits and try to educate others.

If I saw something like a WC Aphonopelma moderatum (which is being overcollected) at a pet store, I would rather it died at the pet store than buy it myself. If I were to buy it, all it would do is encourage the store to carry more of the species which will only put a further strain on wild populations.

[paul fleming]

Of course I don't think the T is going to be released back into the wild. But buying them is only going to encourage the stores to continue selling WC T's, which is going to encourage further collection. See how things work? It's easy to just pass the buck, and play it off as if it's a hopeless situation that will never end. In the end, all we can control is our own actions, and for me, that means caring for my T's as best I can, and doing my best to not support anything that may be damaging wild populations of tarantulas. Yes, a lot of naive T owners don't know any better. But that doesn't mean it's ok for those of us who do to support overcollection. Instead, it should be our duty to not support those habits and try to educate others.

If I saw something like a WC Aphonopelma moderatum (which is being overcollected) at a pet store, I would rather it died at the pet store than buy it myself. If I were to buy it, all it would do is encourage the store to carry more of the species which will only put a further strain on wild populations.

Very good point........just because somebody else does it,it does not mean we should.
The cycle has to be broken somehow.

[Roski]

If you buy WC, you're adding to the demand for WC specimens.

"Someone else will buy it if you don't" is like saying "cause has no effect."

[Xian]

I guess we should all start supplying our pet stores with inexpensive captive born species.

[paul fleming]

I guess we should all start supplying our pet stores with inexpensive captive born species.

Do you even know the implications of buying WC ?
I think not.
When I said "breeders"....that did not include pet stores who normally buy in bulk,wherever they can get them from and sell for as much as they can get.There are always exeptions but I happen to know the owner of a pet store so I know how it works.
Did you even think about that ?
BTW xian......this is perhaps one of the most serious debates I have been invovled in since joing AB........you should have a think about what you post in future in a serious thread like this.

[Xian]

I guess some people may think I wasn't serious about my comment. I have supplied slings to my local pet store before, that is why I suggested it.