do Mice Cause Molting problems for WIld Ts??

Ultum4Spiderz

Ultum4Spiderz

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It is aparently common knowlage Ts .. can die from overdose of "Calcium" Vertibrates can cause a Tarantula to get stuck in its molt " supposably
Despite this.. wild Tarantulas will eat anything they can kill & overpower.. to survive..
is there any account of Tarantulas dying from eating mice in the wild??
If I recall.. Lasiodora parahybana & Theraphosa blondi both have been seen killing & eating snakes in the wild.. on camera

Mice Have sharp teeth... so Id think a Spider would only kill one if it was very large & hungry... or in self defense
Tarantulas should never be fed mice in captivity.. regardless of how wild Tarantulas eat... this is a Fact
 
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Ultum4Spiderz

Ultum4Spiderz

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true.. they actualy threw a Fer-de-lance Viper near a Lasiodora parahybana??? so the spider would kil it? Those snakes are deadly
Its not hard to beilive... Tv shows will do anything for money:mad:
 
jayefbe

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Has it been proven that mice will lead to molting issues? I mean, other than RobC saying it happens in a video? I'm not saying it's not true, but has it been documented in a real scientific setting? Personally, I never feed rodents because I think it's unhealthy, and unsafe. In the wild, I doubt it would cause issues. Wild tarantulas eat a variety of prey organisms so they don't have the same issues that can arise in captivity, when owners typically only feed a single prey type.
 
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Bill S

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Keep in mind that the high calcium content of mice is largely locked up in their skeleton, which tarantulas don't eat. A lot of the information regarding diet and molting is speculative.
 
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Hornets inverts

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not sure about mice but feeding rats has never done any harm to any of my t's. I honestly cant see any reason why it would cause issues
 
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Falk

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There is no evidence that calcium is the cause of death, it is only a theory. I belive that it is wrong nutrients and fat that causes it. Many of the Therephosa spp. in the hobby are so overfed that their abdomens looks like tennisballs and i think it can cause problems with the "blood" circulation.

I also agree with Chris that most of these "wild shots" are staged.
 
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bwusstig

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Never heard of it...

I have never heard this "common knowledge"...True, most calcium of adult mice is locked up in their skeletons, but pinkie and fuzzy mice do have fairly high Ca levels that are not skeletal but I can't imagine why this would cause any problem. I have always fed mine a varied diet of both vertebrate & invertebrate prey and never had this issue, just food for thought...
 
grayzone

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i used to feed my Lp pinkies and feeders too and it never caused a problem. a while back i bought a (at the time) 6 to 7" female A. genic from a lady who raised it from a sling and she said shes been feeding it pinkies and mice ever since it was about 4" at least twice a molt span. i sold traded her at 8+ to 9" to a fellow member here for a 6 to 7" female regalis who will be getting her first pinkie " known to me " soon. i know that mice are a bad idea cuz of the teeth and claws, but i dont see nothin wrong with A PINKIE OR 2 per molt for adult ts... i will cross the " bad for them" bridge and complain about it when i get to it
 
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High_Rolling_T

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jayefbe said:
Has it been proven that mice will lead to molting issues? I mean, other than RobC saying it happens in a video? I'm not saying it's not true, but has it been documented in a real scientific setting? Personally, I never feed rodents because I think it's unhealthy, and unsafe. In the wild, I doubt it would cause issues. Wild tarantulas eat a variety of prey organisms so they don't have the same issues that can arise in captivity, when owners typically only feed a single prey type.
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No, there is no evidence at all, only speculation. There are other reason's not to feed tarantulas mice, but this one is just mere rumor.


Bill S said:
Keep in mind that the high calcium content of mice is largely locked up in their skeleton, which tarantulas don't eat. A lot of the information regarding diet and molting is speculative.
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Also keep in mind that tarantulas' exoskeletons are made of chitin and protein... not sure how the mineral calcium would effect chitin.
 
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022

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Well, I would think that after some bazillion years eating lil reptikes and mammals evolution would have find a way to avoid any harm that calcium cold do
 
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High_Rolling_T said:
Also keep in mind that tarantulas' exoskeletons are made of chitin and protein... not sure how the mineral calcium would effect chitin.
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Shouldn't really affect it at all. There's no calcium in chitin, and the presence of calcium should not displace anything in chitin. (There's nothing closely related to calcium in the chitin that the calcium would replace.) If calcium does impact tarantulas it would be in metabolic ways or in perhaps the neurosystem. But the rumor is that calcium messes up molts, isn't it? So it would be good if someone who advocates against calcium-rich diets could address this.

Actually, the other argument against feeding pre-killed mice to tarantulas has to do with body fats in mice being bad for tarantulas. I'd be very interested to hear the rationale behind this. There are insects that store fat (harvestor ants when they send up clouds of breeders come to mind). And arachnids whose venoms work specifically on lipids (Loxosceles spiders, for example). Fats and lipids might be undigestable to other spiders, but if so then the fats would not be able to be absorbed and would therefore be excreted. If they can be digested - then there's probably a reason spiders can digest them.
 
Ultum4Spiderz

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so your saying?? mice dont hurt the T.. its the over-hi fat diet in the mice?? and chitlen dosnt abosord calcium
goood point !!
 
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Falk

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Bill S said:
Shouldn't really affect it at all. There's no calcium in chitin, and the presence of calcium should not displace anything in chitin. (There's nothing closely related to calcium in the chitin that the calcium would replace.) If calcium does impact tarantulas it would be in metabolic ways or in perhaps the neurosystem. But the rumor is that calcium messes up molts, isn't it? So it would be good if someone who advocates against calcium-rich diets could address this.

Actually, the other argument against feeding pre-killed mice to tarantulas has to do with body fats in mice being bad for tarantulas. I'd be very interested to hear the rationale behind this. There are insects that store fat (harvestor ants when they send up clouds of breeders come to mind). And arachnids whose venoms work specifically on lipids (Loxosceles spiders, for example). Fats and lipids might be undigestable to other spiders, but if so then the fats would not be able to be absorbed and would therefore be excreted. If they can be digested - then there's probably a reason spiders can digest them.
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Yes, but the fat in insects and mammals are not the same type of fats. It would be nice to see a scientific study on theraphosid spiders so all these speculations could end =) One reason for Theraphosa spp. molting problem could have something to do with their size. Many keepers feed them much and i think it is hard for them to pump all the fluids correctly when their abdomens are big as a tennisballs. But in the end there is absolutely no reason to feed with mice in captivity at all. Better to give a big variation of well fed insects instead of taking chances with mice.
 
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Ran

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I'm sure there are many factors invloved that could cause a "bad" molt...husbandry related...obesity (causes problems in all the animal kingdom)...as Rick West noted "they feed mainly on frogs, toads, insects, other T's". I know I have a hard time not overfeeding. In nature they attack whatever wanders by that they feel they can over power. They live in a concentrated ecosystem so opportunities to eat are not too far and few. I wish we could present them with natural conditions..and, I'm sure, we all try! That is why these forums are so valuable..to learn and to pass on a wealth of info and research.
 
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High_Rolling_T

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Bill S said:
Shouldn't really affect it at all. There's no calcium in chitin, and the presence of calcium should not displace anything in chitin. (There's nothing closely related to calcium in the chitin that the calcium would replace.) If calcium does impact tarantulas it would be in metabolic ways or in perhaps the neurosystem. But the rumor is that calcium messes up molts, isn't it? So it would be good if someone who advocates against calcium-rich diets could address this.
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This was more so my main point, again sarcasm doesn't carry well in text. Thank you for going into more detail than I could on the topic, I only knew that generally calcium would have no affect on chitin, so how could one argue that the calcium affects molting due to hardening the exoskeleton. Couple this with the fact that the tarantulas do not eat/digest the bones, honestly the whole claim seems pretty debunked from head to toe...

Bill S said:
Actually, the other argument against feeding pre-killed mice to tarantulas has to do with body fats in mice being bad for tarantulas. I'd be very interested to hear the rationale behind this. There are insects that store fat (harvestor ants when they send up clouds of breeders come to mind). And arachnids whose venoms work specifically on lipids (Loxosceles spiders, for example). Fats and lipids might be undigestable to other spiders, but if so then the fats would not be able to be absorbed and would therefore be excreted. If they can be digested - then there's probably a reason spiders can digest them.
Click to expand...
This I have heard as well, but only ever mentioned as single sentences(pretty much the same as yours: the fats in the mice are bad for tarantulas). I've never really seen any more info on this other than the simple claim of it. Thanks for the extra info, hopefully some more will arise in this thread.

Falk said:
Many keepers feed them much and i think it is hard for them to pump all the fluids correctly when their abdomens are big as a tennisballs. But in the end there is absolutely no reason to feed with mice in captivity at all. Better to give a big variation of well fed insects instead of taking chances with mice.
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I agree with this on both points. Overfeeding is never beneficial to any animal and is very easy to do in tarantulas. And whether mice are harmful to tarantula diets are not, there are many other reasons to not feed them in captivity. Clearly they are not essential, so there is no real reason to feed them.
 
Ultum4Spiderz

Ultum4Spiderz

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SO basically its a Myth??? and Molting issues in Theraphosa possibly started this one???:o_O:
I respect Rob C... but he fed his Ts mice(once a year & before breeding/after molts) ... occasionally and it never seemed to cause issues...
 
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DannyH

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Whos to say they don't die in the wild if they eat to many verts?
Even so, why feed you T a mouse when T's live long happy lives on a diet of insects, you know, other than a creepy bloodlust.

Also, RobC said he only feeds females he wants to breed mice to they get really full.
 
Amoeba

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DannyH said:
RobC said he only feeds females he wants to breed mice to they get really full.
Click to expand...
robc says a lot of things.

I'd love to see if this mouse thread is any more productive than the others... Anyone got an article or legit study to prove anything more than calcium isn't needed?
 
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