Genus Hapalopus

Ok, so for a while I have been trying to make sense of the Hapalopus genus. I have a Hapalopus sp. "Colombian/large" (purchased from Tarantula Canada, so I trust the labelling) and I have also heard to them referred to as Hapalopus sp. Pumpkin Patch, and somewhere else someone claimed that it's Hapalopus formosus. So are they they same species, or are other people just as confused with the genus as I am?

Hoping some people out there with more knowledge on Hapalopus can give me some insight into the genus, and a less confusing list of what species are involved.

I have been searching around for quite some time, but just haven't come up with enough to really make sense of it. Maybe someone has some links I've overlooked, or some info I am not aware of.

Thanks so much.

Im not really going to be of much help, but I was reffering to them as Hapalopus sp. columbia. But then seen it as H. formosus. So I thought that they had given them a name, and decided that's what they are. But I'm glad you asked this also, I would like to know for sure too.

catfishrod69 said:

Im not really going to be of much help, but I was reffering to them as Hapalopus sp. columbia. But then seen it as H. formosus. So I thought that they had given them a name, and decided that's what they are. But I'm glad you asked this also, I would like to know for sure too.

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I had been under the impression that H. formosus was different, but it is very possible that I missed it if the species had actually been named. There's also Hapalopus sp. "Colombian/small" and others. It seems muddy, and I'm curious to know a breakdown of the species in this genus.

Im not really sure. I have never heard of the small or large either. Hopefully there isnt a few different subspecies, or mixed up like Avicularia.

Shell said:

I had been under the impression that H. formosus was different, but it is very possible that I missed it if the species had actually been named. There's also Hapalopus sp. "Colombian/small" and others. It seems muddy, and I'm curious to know a breakdown of the species in this genus.

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catfishrod69 said:

Im not really sure. I have never heard of the small or large either. Hopefully there isnt a few different subspecies, or mixed up like Avicularia.

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When I bought mine (June 2010) Tarantula Canada had both sp. Colombia/large and sp. Colombia/small, with pictures on their website. They do look similar but different, I preferred the look of the large. I have just not been able to come up with any definitive answers as to it all, and wondering if it's just me who is confused, or if the genus is messed up.

I suppose I could ask Martin, but I was cuious to see the resulting discussion to this thread.

Yeah hopefully someone will chime in, and give us some positive info.

I just checked the tarantula Canada site last night (darn you with all your Cyriocosmus species! I want them! Why can't you be in the US!) and they had both Hapalopus sp Columbia large and Hapalopus sp Columbia small. The pictures they had do look pretty much the same, which is wild. Sympatric species that look identical, only a difference in size?

jayefbe said:

I just checked the tarantula Canada site last night (darn you with all your Cyriocosmus species! I want them! Why can't you be in the US!) and they had both Hapalopus sp Columbia large and Hapalopus sp Columbia small. The pictures they had do look pretty much the same, which is wild. Sympatric species that look identical, only a difference in size?

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It is pretty wild, the whole genus has me curious. They look very similar but there is a slight difference, at least there was to me last I looked at those pictures.

They are two distinct species (the small and the large one).

The person who collected them and bred them had Hapalopus sp. large first available, sold them as such and always has sold them as such. Some people started labelling them as H. cf. formosus (because presumably it could be that species) and eventually at one point some poeple decide to remove the cf. for marketing reasons if I had to guess. They should be sold as H. sp. large, but I guess for some people, they prefer to sell it easier with a name on it, it could also be because Rick West decided to label the animal as H. formosus on his site.

I do not follow US common names, so I cannot comment on the pumpkin patch thing. You would have to source out when it was invented for which of the two species.

The large and the small species are very different looking (very distinct prosoma among others), the large is quite... large LOL I have seen full sized female at easily 4" to 5", very impressive (but of course will breed at smaller size). The small one is more similar in size and looks as H. triseriatus.

And if you are confused, wait until the other species become available!

I hope this helps.

Martin

Thank you so much for your input, Martin. That definitely helps to clear things up a bit for me.

Great post. Why aren't you in the states?! There's plenty of things above the border I'd snatch up in a second.

Is the moral of the story "what you buy it as - sell it as", unless a clear research paper is published on the topic?

It's important with many dealers to ask them what they themselves bought stock as, and from who. The names Columbia/large and
Columbia/small clearly associate this with the german stock sold as Columbia/GroB=big and Columbia/klein=small ... if you
have something sold as 'pumpkin patch' or similar, you should be asking if its just a rebranded of these two above or another source.

sjl197 said:

if you have something sold as 'pumpkin patch' or similar, you should be asking if its just a rebranded of these two above or another source.

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That's part of why I posted this. Mine was purchased as Hapalopus sp. "Colombian/large" although there is no doubt in my mind that it has the correct label, given that I purchased from Tarantula Canada ( Tarcan and the Red Queen on here.) I was not confused about the spider in my possession, but with the ones being labelled with other names, if they are actual seperate species, or just a bunch of different names being applied to these species.

I was curious as to what other members knew about the other names being applied to spiders of this genus. Martin (Tarcan) cleared it up pretty well for me though.

I understand.

I see some that match with the Hapalopus sp gros/large now being sold as H.formosus i suspect because they match a picture on Rick Wests website that is labeled as H.formosus, though his picture is credited to the same european source who is responsible for the Hapalopus sp Columbia gros/large. Im just amused that petcenter.usa is also selling some as H.formosus which are different, and which match those sold in europe as Hapalopus triseratus..

Good luck with cross-breeding everyone!

sjl197 said:

Good luck with cross-breeding everyone!

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It could very well get muddy if they keep being sold the way you described.

I am lucky that I have a friend with a male, purchased from the same place as my female, around the same time. So at least we know we both have the same species before we attempt anything.

Hello all and hello Stuart... indeed getting scary, never quite understood why when a spider crosses the ocean, it changes name! I myself is a bit guilty of it since I opted for the simple translation as you pointed out, but for those interested, indeed the original German name of the Hapalopus sp. large is Hapalopus sp. groß. Since we do not have the eszett in our alphabet, I decided to change the name (translate it), I guess I was worried people thought this species would only eat "grubs" in captivity!lol Anyhow, not sure why I changed it in retrospect since in the past I sold some Xenesthis sp. weiß. Funny story on the Xenesthis, it was also being sold under Xenesthis sp. hell, I asked my friend why he gave it such a "killer" name (great for commercial purpose though) and he bursted out laughing letting me know that "hell" in German means "clear", referring to the pale yellow legs of the babies (the reason why we call it sp. "white").

Anyhow, just a complement of information in order to confuse things a little more. Dirk confirmed to me that Hapalopus sp. groß IS NOT the real Hapalopus formosus (not to be confused with the fact that the H. formosus sold in the hobby is Hapalopus sp. groß!). At first he tought it COULD be and had mentionned it to me, but had asked me not to put that name since he was not sure. I guess a lot of people jumped the gun and were in a hurry to put a name on it. But there you have it, of course unpublished data, but from the best source possible on the suject. Hopefully people will stop referring to it with this name.

All the best

Martin

Another great post! Thanks so much for updating us, Martin.

lol , I always thought X. sp. "hell" was just a really cool locality of Xenesthis. Always wondered who had the balls to go collect them. Thanks for clearing that up Martin!

Later, Tom

LOL, Tom, never actually thought of it as a potential locality... imagine going to hell and back to collect Ts!

Hello all,

So martin are you saying ..
Xenesthis sp White=Weiß=weiss=clear=light=hell ... ?
hehehe.I think you are (actually i heard the same, though im still a little uncertain Weiß=hell).
but but.. my adult female is black, doesnt match, but she is mean as hell... (yah i know light coloured legs as spiderlings..., and ps. i was also initially quite confused/dismayed by the name spec 'hell')
So are we all signed up for a fieldtrip to hell now? (im sure i went on one of those already..)

I would have favoured changing Hapalopus sp Columbia Groß into Hapalopus sp Columbia large/Gross ..
and i wonder would a spider labeled 'gross' have sold better than one labeled 'grub' ? tough call.
Yes, i understand the benefits of changing the german to english, so i've no problem with substituting the word Groß for its english equivalent of 'large', its just the removal of anything to specify spec 'large' or 'small' and the random addition of either the unfounded 'formosus' or 'pumpkin patch' or both later added names that i hope the buyers/owners will now question the dealers about...

THanks for your thoughts everyone. Now hopefully some in the US track down which traders rebranded (and why without any reason to)

ps. DONT do a google image search for Gross !! Rather disgusting images, except for pics of Halley Wegryn Gross