SUPPORT NEEDED to research sick tarantulas. nematodes/yeast/white goo on mouth. Help the hobby!

AgeAye · Jan 16, 2012

Dear fellow arachnoboard members,
There seems to be a lack of research and treatment of certain afflictions prevalent in the hobby. I've read as many posts I could find of T's with the infamous white goo in the mouth, and I'm sure I am not the only T owner who has had a sick T and has been frustrated at the lack of help and information from both vets and the T community.

My goals are simple, and I feel someone should have addressed these problems before with a professional approach.

1. IDENTIFY SUSPECTED PATHOGENS
2. PERFORM ANTIBIOTIC SUSCEPTIBILITY TESTS
3. POSSIBLY PERFORM ANTIBIOTIC TREATMENT ON LIVE SUBJECTS

I believe an answer, and possibly a cure is not an impossible feat and will benefit many T hobbyists in the future.

If I can gain verbal support, shared experiences, people willing to donate their dead T's and possibly Living sick T's I might be able to find both an answer and a cure.
With the proper support to back me, I will apply to conduct independent research so I have the proper tools to solve this issue.
I would be conducting my research at the University of Buffalo within the biomedical sciences department.
UB is world renown for its research
Here is a short video on how research on tarantula venom at UB may yield a cure to muscular dystrophy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPKfmLDxsGk
Here is the class
http://undergrad-catalog.buffalo.edu/coursedescriptions/index.php?cid=10961&abbr=BMS&num=498
Here is a video of my sick T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69zPKF2fwsI&feature=youtu.be her progress can be tracked on the thread I started for her.

I need support by the end of the week before it is too late to apply. The sooner the better. Even a simple post of "I would support this" would be helpful in convincing UB that this is an issue that needs a solution
I can assure you that even if I cant get your support, I will still ask to informally do research on the swabs collected from my sick T because I am interested in an answer to her sickness, and hopefully of a recovery.

Thank you,
-Adam

grayzone · Jan 16, 2012

glad to be your 1st voter... id help in any way i could, since the means to do the research are there

Bigboy · Jan 16, 2012

Could you supply us with your list of credentials, publications and University affiliation?

Comatose · Jan 16, 2012

I support this... it looks like a very fascinating project.

jbm150 · Jan 16, 2012

I would certainly donate any specimen for your research...though I hope I never have to

Theist 17 · Jan 16, 2012

I'm with BigBoy on this. Sounds great, but some credentials would be a big help in getting support for you.

AgeAye · Jan 16, 2012

Bigboy said:
Could you supply us with your list of credentials, publications and University affiliation?

No publications, just a degree in Clinical laboratory technology, Board Certified by the American society of pathology, and licensed to practice in NYS (NY holds higher standards for competency to practice).
If you would like to know more here is a link describing my profession.
http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/clt/clpbroch.htm
Registered at the University of Buffalo in the same program, Medical Technology so I can advance my degree.
I also worked two years for my last school prepping the labs, making media for micro, maintaining our stock supply of 25+ types of microbes, (streaking new plates every two weeks), and typing bloods.

Although young I can assure you I am competent enough to ID the pathogens, culture them, and perform antibiotic susceptibility tests. I don't see this as some huge feat of research, just something that was unfortunately overlooked. With the right tools, the help of my professors, and good samples I should be figure it out. I've taken classes on parasitology as well and was held accountable on my boards to microscopically identify nematodes, including their eggs. If you froze your tarantula after death there is a good chance that the eggs of the parasite are still viable and could be cultured.

I don't know what you want me to say. I'm not doing this monetary reasons or bragging rights, I'm doing this because Its something I'm passionate about and I care about the well being of my sick T and was frustrated at the lack of knowledge when it comes to this problem.

GregorSamsa · Jan 16, 2012

jbm150 said:
I would certainly donate any specimen for your research...though I hope I never have to

Me as well. Also, support given.
Good luck.

Shell · Jan 16, 2012

Sounds interesting to me. I would support it in any way I can.

jayefbe · Jan 16, 2012

I'd support anyone doing this kind of work with tarantulas. We're at a level where even the most basic research will likely be informative.

What's your time frame for this? How long are you going to have access to the lab in order to run these tests/cultures? My worry would be actually obtaining enough samples to say anything conclusive. If I ever had any samples I'd be willing to send them your way, but I haven't lost a single T to disease/parasites after quite a few years of keeping a LOT of tarantulas. Hopefully more people will chime in that have had tarantulas lost to disease/parasites.

AgeAye · Jan 16, 2012

jayefbe said:
I'd support anyone doing this kind of work with tarantulas. We're at a level where even the most basic research will likely be informative.

What's your time frame for this? How long are you going to have access to the lab in order to run these tests/cultures? My worry would be actually obtaining enough samples to say anything conclusive. If I ever had any samples I'd be willing to send them your way, but I haven't lost a single T to disease/parasites after quite a few years of keeping a LOT of tarantulas. Hopefully more people will chime in that have had tarantulas lost to disease/parasites.

I need to obtain approval by friday and it would last until april 30th. (I can also apply for may 23-aug 12 after this semester) My first subject will be elvira, my poor sickly avic avic

until I receive more specimens.

jayefbe · Jan 16, 2012

How many specimens will you need to get credit? Is there an expectation on how many hours you'll spending in the lab, etc?

Jared781 · Jan 16, 2012

[B said:
I need support by the end of the week before it is too late to apply. The sooner the better. Even a simple post of "I would support this" would be helpful in convincing UB that this is an issue that needs a solution[/B]
I can assure you that even if I cant get your support, I will still ask to informally do research on the swabs collected from my sick T because I am interested in an answer to her sickness, and hopefully of a recovery.

Thank you,
-Adam

Hit me....

AgeAye · Jan 16, 2012

jayefbe said:
How many specimens will you need to get credit? Is there an expectation on how many hours you'll spending in the lab, etc?

I intend on volunteering and do not intend on receiving course credit for my research. There is no set amount of specimens needed to get started. I will use the samples taken from my avic to start but I hope to receive more. I plan on spending 5-15 hours a week but it really depends on the progress. I will write out a detailed plan of attack tomorrow afternoon. Its the first day of the semester tomorrow, I will speak with a professor or two to see if they will accept to mentor me, and I will talk to assistant dean. I hope to apply Wednesday or Thursday once I have my application and everything else organized.

AgeAye · Jan 17, 2012

advan said:
I would be willing to send you this girl. I received her like this on the 7th. She is still alive. - Chad

aww I'm sorry about your girl. Are you sure this is the result of a bacterial or parasitic infection? A little more information would be helpful. From a glance this looks more like a muscular/neurological issue and If that is the case its much more heavy research material, and there isn't much I could do. For anything muscular or neurological, tests would have to be ran on the hemolymph and normal values from healthy T's would need to be established for comparison, considering the variety of T's I don't think this is an easy feat, In addition the machines that would be testing the hemolymph, would be testing for human chemistries and humans dont have hemocyanin! even foelix's biology of spiders, the most in depth book I've found on spiders lacks a lot of information in that department; The constituents of hemolymph and functions of these constituents. To top it all off, histological slides would need to be made of healthy and sick T's for comparison to try and understand why it isn't moving properly, and then drugs would be administered to attempt to restore balance. (breath) I'd love to do research on DKS/DKS like illness, but like jayefbe said "the most basic research would be informative".... You need to learn to crawl before you learn to walk. If I get approved for this research I have to obtain a permit in order to receive animal pathogens, but I could send sterile swabs and tubes with directions for collection for anyone who does suspect a parasite/fungus/or bacteria, along with the proper postage and documentation from my school. (but somehow you can send a sick tarantula via mail? and not be charged for doing anything illegal) I'm half asleep now so I apologize if this is a bit ranty of a post.

jim777 · Jan 17, 2012

I would support you in any way I can.

advan · Jan 17, 2012

AgeTheLabTech said:
aww I'm sorry about your girl. Are you sure this is the result of a bacterial or parasitic infection? A little more information would be helpful. From a glance this looks more like a muscular/neurological issue and If that is the case its much more heavy research material, and there isn't much I could do. For anything muscular or neurological, tests would have to be ran on the hemolymph and normal values from healthy T's would need to be established for comparison, considering the variety of T's I don't think this is an easy feat, In addition the machines that would be testing the hemolymph, would be testing for human chemistries and humans dont have hemocyanin! even foelix's biology of spiders, the most in depth book I've found on spiders lacks a lot of information in that department; The constituents of hemolymph and functions of these constituents. To top it all off, histological slides would need to be made of healthy and sick T's for comparison to try and understand why it isn't moving properly, and then drugs would be administered to attempt to restore balance. (breath) I'd love to do research on DKS/DKS like illness, but like jayefbe said "the most basic research would be informative".... You need to learn to crawl before you learn to walk. If I get approved for this research I have to obtain a permit in order to receive animal pathogens, but I could send sterile swabs and tubes with directions for collection for anyone who does suspect a parasite/fungus/or bacteria, along with the proper postage and documentation from my school. (but somehow you can send a sick tarantula via mail? and not be charged for doing anything illegal) I'm half asleep now so I apologize if this is a bit ranty of a post.

I am not sure what is exactly wrong with her or others with these symptoms. It is very possible some sort of pathogen(parasite,bacterial,viral) is attacking the central nervous system. I thought it would be a step in the right direction to swab the mouth and take a closer look at fecal matter. I understand you would also need samples from perfectly healthy specimens too and not just in my girl's case your Avicularia's case also.

I can send a sick tarantula just as carefully and legally as a healthy specimen.

ijmccollum · Jan 17, 2012

As I understand your post, you are polling for how many/ who would support your research on an independent microbiology investigation at University of Buffalo. With an accepted application does UoB donate lab, space, time, consumables or will you need to apply for a grant – or is this application considered grant from UoB?

While you have stated what your goals are, you will need to provide protocols and most likely go through IACUC. If this is for graduate work and you are unable to accomplish this for this semester of study, you may want to consider it for future independent study, yes, for credit and with faculty mentoring.

While you appear quite passionate on this topic, a 3 – 4 month study seems rather short to adequately explore the topic - but it would be great to see someone kick-start invert pathology of this nature.

The short of it, I feel it is a worthy topic for research. Unfortunately, I am not the one you need to sell it to.

Comatose · Jan 17, 2012

advan said:
I would be willing to send you this girl. I received her like this on the 7th. She is still alive. - Chad

That's very generous of you to donate one of your specimens to research dude. Big ups.

AgeAye · Jan 17, 2012

advan said:
I am not sure what is exactly wrong with her or others with these symptoms. It is very possible some sort of pathogen(parasite,bacterial,viral) is attacking the central nervous system. I thought it would be a step in the right direction to swap the mouth and took a look at fecal matter. I understand you would also need samples from perfectly healthy specimens too and not just in my girl's case your Avicularia's case also.

I can send a sick tarantula just as carefully and legally as a healthy specimen.

Ok I will be keeping in touch!
I will be speaking with my potential mentor later today after class, I will probably be showing her this thread as well within the near future.

---------- Post added 01-17-2012 at 12:22 PM ----------

ijmccollum said:
As I understand your post, you are polling for how many/ who would support your research on an independent microbiology investigation at University of Buffalo. With an accepted application does UoB donate lab, space, time, consumables or will you need to apply for a grant – or is this application considered grant from UoB?

While you have stated what your goals are, you will need to provide protocols and most likely go through IACUC. If this is for graduate work and you are unable to accomplish this for this semester of study, you may want to consider it for future independent study, yes, for credit and with faculty mentoring.

While you appear quite passionate on this topic, a 3 – 4 month study seems rather short to adequately explore the topic - but it would be great to see someone kick-start invert pathology of this nature.

The short of it, I feel it is a worthy topic for research. Unfortunately, I am not the one you need to sell it to.

There is not much information given about about lab space, time, and supplies. I know from my labs last semester that UB charges reasonable prices for some instruments http://www.research.buffalo.edu/scientific/instrumentation/databaseF.htm (a quick search but this is what came up) I believe that most the tools I will need are available within the microbiology department.

SUPPORT NEEDED to research sick tarantulas. nematodes/yeast/white goo on mouth. Help the hobby!

Would you support this research?

Yes!

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