Really Just Pets? Really?

I made a recent trip to the pet store. I always get my crickets there. But this time There was a dead G. rosea! Should I buy spiders there from now on?

\unfortunatly pet stores make money by selling well. pets, which can be fine for dogs and cats; but when it comes to exotics- like the ones we buy which have specific care needs, it often means alot of stress to the animal- the pet store will not be able to sel a spider you can never see ( like a obalt blue) and have to limit its space to try and present it better; if it can't burrow can't make proper shelter you can see it go " oh cool!" and buy it. Sad fact is Most pet stores provide only enough care for the animal to be sold; not survive. So while I would love to say "yes, you should not buy from that store any further" I would rather come to the conclussion that you should make a complaint with the store manager, but know it will probably be in vain and know somewhere there is someone who will liberate a tarantula from the petstore and further continue our hobby and even give it a better home. some things are a neccessary evil.

You shouldn't buy spiders from pet shops, period.

I went to my LPS last saturday and they had two almost dead P. regalis. I stopped buying Ts from them after a change in ownership a year ago. It makes me smh that even a LPS that specializes in reptiles and other exotics cant take care of Ts correctly. Most are under bright lights with no hide and no water, just those humidity packs.

our LPS has no idea what they're doing with T's either, of course they only get in rose hairs and pink toes so they're hearty specimen. but whenever the lady there tries to talk to me she has no idea what i'm saying because i have 7 different pink toes and not one of them is an a. avic. they do however know reptile lighting very well so thats been working out.

When first researching care for a captive tarantula, I went to a fellow zoologist who helps me take care of the zoo's reptile room. I've always had a lot of experience with snakes, but little with spiders. I'm still learning a lot. What he told me about tarantula care was COMPLETELY different from what I was told by the people in an exotic pet store I go to. I would never buy a live animal from a pet store. Most have little to no understanding of animal enrichment and husbandry. The people at the pet store told me to mist a G. rosea's tank everyday, to use a heat mat and heat lamp, and to feed her every four to five days. In my own opinion, it wouldn't matter to me if there was a dead tarantula in every tank, or if all of their animals were alive and seemingly healthy. I just don't believe in pet stores selling live animals.

THEY HAVE A COBALT BLUE!!!! BUT IT CAN'T BURROW:cry:

---------- Post added 02-14-2012 at 04:31 PM ----------

About the G. rosea...it had no form of shelter,no water dish,it was on pine straw,and its cage was lit plus it was hot in the @#%@%! cage!

OBT1 said:

THEY HAVE A COBALT BLUE!!!! BUT IT CAN'T BURROW:cry:

---------- Post added 02-14-2012 at 04:31 PM ----------

About the G. rosea...it had no form of shelter,no water dish,it was on pine straw,and its cage was lit plus it was hot in the @#%@%! cage!

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I bought a Cobalt Blue from the petsore and they didn't provide it with enough substrate to burrow. I felt so bad and I bought it from them and gave it lots of substrate and it burrowed after 3 weeks.
I also bought a G. Rosea RCF from there and they had it in wet substrate.
If I had enough money to buy them all I would!
They also had a 3.5" Poecilotheria Subfusca Highland for 100$ with no cork bark just substrate in a small kritter keeper.

This is why I think that we arachnoboards people need to distribute The Tarantula Keepers Guide to all pet stores that we can.

The Weed Man said:

If I had enough money to buy them all I would!

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The point you're failing to comprehend here is that by buying the spiders, you're telling the pet store's management that they will indeed sell, thus encouraging them to get more, and then the ones they use to restock their shelves will receive the same sub-par treatment. You're just creating a cycle of mismanagement of the spiders. So by buying them all, you've done more harm than good.

paassatt said:

The point you're failing to comprehend here is that by buying the spiders, you're telling the pet store's management that they will indeed sell, thus encouraging them to get more, and then the ones they use to restock their shelves will receive the same sub-par treatment. You're just creating a cycle of mismanagement of the spiders. So by buying them all, you've done more harm than good.

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Ah you beat me too it.

Devils advocate here, some petstores can provide perfectly fine for tarantulas. I have come across a few LPS which have at least one person with experience with tarantulas and they have all had healthy tarantulas in perfectly suitable housing.
That being said the same people who understand the tarantulas don't order species like H. lividium unless they have a special request. Pokies don't require cork bark, if they live in a critter keeper that's too "small" for a month with a plastic plant it wont kill them.
As long as their basic needs are being met i fail to see the harm in small critter keepers for short amounts of time. Im not defending all petstores but dotn over generalize because some pet stores have ex-breeders who work for them, and I can say that alot of breeders have similar housing situations for tarantulas which they plan on selling.

LucasNorth said:

Devils advocate here, some petstores can provide perfectly fine for tarantulas. I have come across a few LPS which have at least one person with experience with tarantulas and they have all had healthy tarantulas in perfectly suitable housing.
That being said the same people who understand the tarantulas don't order species like H. lividium unless they have a special request. Pokies don't require cork bark, if they live in a critter keeper that's too "small" for a month with a plastic plant it wont kill them.
As long as their basic needs are being met i fail to see the harm in small critter keepers for short amounts of time. Im not defending all petstores but dotn over generalize because some pet stores have ex-breeders who work for them, and I can say that alot of breeders have similar housing situations for tarantulas which they plan on selling.

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I don't doubt for one second your assertion that there are pet stores out there that are the exception to the general rule. One of them is located in the city in which I live. Very small mom-and-pop type operation that takes very good care of their tarantulas. One of the staff there breeds them and is very knowledgable, and I go in there just to chat with him often. What I want people to take away from this thread is "rescuing" tarantulas from pet stores in which they're given sub-par treatment does more harm than good.

paassatt said:

I don't doubt for one second your assertion that there are pet stores out there that are the exception to the general rule. One of them is located in the city in which I live. Very small mom-and-pop type operation that takes very good care of their tarantulas. One of the staff there breeds them and is very knowledgable, and I go in there just to chat with him often. What I want people to take away from this thread is "rescuing" tarantulas from pet stores in which they're given sub-par treatment does more harm than good.

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Agree 100%, i just didn't want people to assume all petstores are terrible. Most big name petstores don't take the time to educate their staff about tarantulas, the most basic husbandry is ignored (insert rant) and even when i told the cashier that they need to provide a water dish for an adult rose hair she just said that they mist the tarantula daily(exit rant). Boycott is the only way to prevent that sort of treatment, but I would say that you can appeal to them in a nice way and hope to educate them on at least basic husbandry.

I would call their superiors, send in a story to the news paper, write a review online on the yellowpages site and/or their facebook site if they have one.
If they get a call, AND they realize you're threatening/are making their bad practices public knowledge and damaging their sales they might be more likely to listen... or at least stop selling spiders at that specific store. I had to do that/are still working on doing that to this disgusting store called PetsOne in Yorkville. If anyone wants to read my review look on their facebook, I saw two of their snakes with their mouth agape, weezing with slime coming out their noses, seed bedding for tarantulas... a fully grown goliath in a 2gal tank... the list goes on. I havn't gotten a response from the owners yet but shortly after I posted that stuff, other people started posting their complaints, be it simple <exit> like costumer service or other animal horror stories. Even if you don't make a difference, making it public knowledge about their practices is a good thing. And Arachnoboards isn't really public knowledge haha, only us tarantula freaks exist on here.

LucasNorth said:

Devils advocate here, some petstores can provide perfectly fine for tarantulas. I have come across a few LPS which have at least one person with experience with tarantulas and they have all had healthy tarantulas in perfectly suitable housing.
That being said the same people who understand the tarantulas don't order species like H. lividium unless they have a special request. Pokies don't require cork bark, if they live in a critter keeper that's too "small" for a month with a plastic plant it wont kill them.
As long as their basic needs are being met i fail to see the harm in small critter keepers for short amounts of time. Im not defending all petstores but dotn over generalize because some pet stores have ex-breeders who work for them, and I can say that alot of breeders have similar housing situations for tarantulas which they plan on selling.

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How do you know if a T will be in a KK for a short amount of time? What if no one buys it in a year? Up the road from me is a major reptile importer with the initials S.R., they have a room full of WC Ts in deli cups waiting for pet stores to purchase them. Who knows how long those Ts have living in those conditions.

Ok they don't need spiders period! The guy says its molting but it obviously dead!

---------- Post added 02-14-2012 at 09:35 PM ----------

The store is a Just Pets in the Zachary LA area.

My LPS has a H. liv on a thin layer of woodchips. I said, in these exact words "Excuse me, but I think this speices of tarantula likes to burrow. It would be better to keep it on a few inches of coconut fiber substrate"
He also had avics in a very baren cage with woodchips on the bottom, so I told him it would be better to keep its cage more humid and put in some cork bark for it to web on.
Both T's looked like they were in really bad shape too.

He got pissed, said I was wrong and told be about his "vast knowlage" of tarantulas.

I've gone through this thread now a few times, and I am not sure how to exactly to lable my thoughts beyond my first post; Pet stores bring an influx to new keepers, new keepers provid demand, demand brings us new spiders; yes, they are poorly kept, yes they often give bad information, but part of the reason sites like arachnoboards.com exist; is to help educate the fellow keeper to the said flaws.

One of which has been mentioned, a non burrow providing enclosure for a cobalt blue- do you think they would be able to sell a cobalt blue if it was in its optimal habitat? Ie a pet hole? even if they could provide accurate care; it is countered by the need to move product. Yes, they can show pictures of the animals they have in stock but as most of us can agree; They dont do justice to the real deal, or can be skewed.

In closing, yes I agree many Rose hairs, pink toes, Cobalts and sometimes others meet their demise in a petstore; but how many people become hobbyists from getting their first tarantula there? I got bit by the bug from a poor kept rose hair whom I named Scarlett, I have since provided countless better homes for coutnless other spiders and their generations, I even began captive breeding, I think the # of spiders I have raised/produced counters the losses of spiders from the one pet store I visited, and I am just one customer.

Ninja edit:

furthermore, even top breeders like Tarcan (tarantula canada) and the american counter parts provide * lousy* housing when it comes to displaying their spiders as yes, I shall say it, product. and while yes what they tell you as the individual owner is probably better information then the average petstore, they are not responsible for the customer; Doing research often will yield information saying the teller is false; some logic and responsibly has to be given to the prospective buyer, for not taking things full on the nose from one person as fact.

I do know a few pet stores that do take very good care of their tarantulas. But those are generally stores where the general manager is a little tarantula or exotic pet nutjob like the rest of us. A few years ago I worked at a petco where the manager and reptile specialists were extremely knowledgable about Tarantulas, the specialist was actually the one who taught me that .. THERE ARE TARANTULAS THAT ARE NOT JUST BROWN FAT LAZY THINGS! When the color of her green bottle blue hit my eyes I fell inlove.. with the spider not her. She then sold it to me, and told me she wouldn't miss it among the 32 other spiders she had at her house. She's been my spider mentor since then, and all of the info she's given me in the past I've backed up on here.

But I think petstores in general shouldn't keep tarantulas unless they know how to care for them.. I mean honestly aside from high humidity + High Ventilation set ups.... a proper set up is not costly, large, or hard to maintain. Infact they would probably save money if they stuck to some easier to maintain T's and kept them properly. I know some people like to make the hobby sound so much more complicated than it is.. but most of the T's someone new to the hobby would get, even some of the more advanced ones are pretty simple compared to Iguanas, and Birds, and Fish. After having tropical fish of all sorts for over 8 years I've had to teach myself how to get rid of all sorts of parasites, odor, algae, all sorts of crap. Birds are so sensitive to chemicals, and act like a 2 year old, reptiles... I've had more scares with my big, fat, lazy boa constrictors than I have with my T's.

My tarantulas the biggest issues I've run into is "D: OH NO ITS NOT EATING WHAT DO I DO WITH THESE EXTRA CRICKETS...... *looks at the Green Bottle Blue and then back at the pain in the ass Avicularia.* >_> *feeds the fat ass GBB even though he knows he shouldn't*

Everything else is stuff that most people can overcome, like the ventilation vs. humidity issue. And you can keep like.. 20 Tarantulas for the cost of one boa.. and my boas only eat twice a week.

T's are pretty simple, there are exceptions but for the most part they're easy and cheap... there is no excuse for petstores lacking proper care.

---------- Post added 02-15-2012 at 12:23 AM ----------

Malhavoc's said:

I've gone through this thread now a few times, and I am not sure how to exactly to lable my thoughts beyond my first post; Pet stores bring an influx to new keepers, new keepers provid demand, demand brings us new spiders; yes, they are poorly kept, yes they often give bad information, but part of the reason sites like arachnoboards.com exist; is to help educate the fellow keeper to the said flaws.

One of which has been mentioned, a non burrow providing enclosure for a cobalt blue- do you think they would be able to sell a cobalt blue if it was in its optimal habitat? Ie a pet hole? even if they could provide accurate care; it is countered by the need to move product. Yes, they can show pictures of the animals they have in stock but as most of us can agree; They dont do justice to the real deal, or can be skewed.

In closing, yes I agree many Rose hairs, pink toes, Cobalts and sometimes others meet their demise in a petstore; but how many people become hobbyists from getting their first tarantula there? I got bit by the bug from a poor kept rose hair whom I named Scarlett, I have since provided countless better homes for coutnless other spiders and their generations, I even began captive breeding, I think the # of spiders I have raised/produced counters the losses of spiders from the one pet store I visited, and I am just one customer.

Ninja edit:

furthermore, even top breeders like Tarcan (tarantula canada) and the american counter parts provide * lousy* housing when it comes to displaying their spiders as yes, I shall say it, product. and while yes what they tell you as the individual owner is probably better information then the average petstore, they are not responsible for the customer; Doing research often will yield information saying the teller is false; some logic and responsibly has to be given to the prospective buyer, for not taking things full on the nose from one person as fact.

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You do bring up valid points, but a picture + a shallow burrow/ hide cave would work too. Tons of fish, reptiles, and especially snakes get sold much more than Tarantulas, and (snakes especially) appear to be one big empty cage with a lump under the substrate. When a costumer wants to see it, they pull it out of the hide or dig it out. They could do that with a shallow burrow or a hide cave in a in-store set up.