A.versicolor Colour Morphs?

Giygas · Apr 18, 2012

After watching a video by Jon3800, i started to wonder if there are actual colour morphs of A.versicolor. Some specimens are a bright cherry red with the signiature green-turquoise carapace and others that are a dark violet red and more of a rich forest green carapace.

I know some G.rosea slings can look different from each other if one is an RCF, but all versis look practically the same as slings. Thoughts?

Storm76 · Apr 18, 2012

Colors in species are usually not 100% exactly the same in my opinion for one, and I think there are 2 forms of A. versicolor which differ slightly in regards to the carapace. Except that, I bet it's mostly only the lighting that causes the differences in colorations.

Although, I'm not 100% certain, so correct me if I'm wrong on this.

jayefbe · Apr 18, 2012

I've never heard of different color forms of A. versicolor. Their coloration will vary dramatically based on size and will vary less dramatically based on the length of time since it last molted. In addition to variation based upon light levels, they can look quite different depending on the situation. Such is the case with all tarantulas.

Storm76 · Apr 18, 2012

jayefbe said:
I've never heard of different color forms of A. versicolor. Their coloration will vary dramatically based on size and will vary less dramatically based on the length of time since it last molted. In addition to variation based upon light levels, they can look quite different depending on the situation. Such is the case with all tarantulas.

Kinda thought so, but I read / hear often people say there are like 2 color forms...*shrugs*...whatever, since no two individuals look exactly the same....

advan · Apr 18, 2012

Check out this one. "Red variant"

Storm76 · Apr 18, 2012

advan said:
Check out this one. "Red variant"

I very much doubt that pic wasn't tempered with, Chad. You aren't serious, are you?

advan · Apr 18, 2012

Storm76 said:
I very much doubt that pic wasn't tempered with, Chad. You aren't serious, are you?

Double negative?

Check the source, I would say it is one of the more reliable ones.

Amoeba · Apr 18, 2012

Mutants happen.

Storm76 · Apr 18, 2012

advan said:
Double negative?

Check the source, I would say it is one of the more reliable ones.

Not my mothertongue, sorry

I know mutants happen, but ...that somehow looks like someone took 2 spiders and messed around a bit with photoshop...either way - interesting

Are pics uploaded there checked before being posted? Else I wouldn't take it as "real" really...

Giygas · Apr 18, 2012

Storm76 said:
Colors in species are usually not 100% exactly the same in my opinion for one, and I think there are 2 forms of A. versicolor which differ slightly in regards to the carapace. Except that, I bet it's mostly only the lighting that causes the differences in colorations.

Although, I'm not 100% certain, so correct me if I'm wrong on this.

No, I think you have a very valid point. Some Ts with irridescent colourations can sometimes look very different in different lighting. Im just wondering why they arent being either sold or researched as a seperate form of versi.

Amoeba · Apr 18, 2012

Giygas said:
No, I think you have a very valid point. Some Ts with irridescent colourations can sometimes look very different in different lighting. Im just wondering why they arent being either sold or researched as a seperate form of versi.

Because color is a terrible way to tell species apart and should probably be the exact last thing you look at.

Giygas · Apr 18, 2012

Amoeba said:
Because color is a terrible way to tell species apart and should probably be the exact last thing you look at.

Hey im just thinking aloud

Other than that, arent most pokies told apart by small details such as bandings and other minor details?
Again, dont point any guns at me guys, im very much aware that colour isnt everything.

Amoeba · Apr 18, 2012

Giygas said:
Hey im just thinking aloud
Other than that, arent most pokies told apart by small details such as bandings and other minor details?
Again, dont point any guns at me guys, im very much aware that colour isnt everything.

Pokies can be identified by *pattern* that is just something that floated to the surface because it's much easier to tell a knob to post a ventral pic than to break out the measuring tape. Arachnologists roll in their sleep/graves when you take the time to ignore their species keys.

EDIT: Here is a quick Pokie study from Sri Lanka http://www.pdn.ac.lk/cjsbs/text/text34.7.pdf

jayefbe · Apr 18, 2012

Morphology doesn't determine what is a different species. It is whether or not populations interbreed in the wild that determines what is a separate species. Morphology used to identify species are a useful tool and is simply an artifact of whether or not there is interbreeding.

Giygas · Apr 18, 2012

Amoeba said:
Pokies can be identified by *pattern* that is just something that floated to the surface because it's much easier to tell a knob to post a ventral pic than to break out the measuring tape. Arachnologists roll in their sleep/graves when you take the time to ignore their species keys.

EDIT: Here is a quick Pokie study from Sri Lanka http://www.pdn.ac.lk/cjsbs/text/text34.7.pdf

Thanks for your input, Ill definately give this a good read

Much appreaciated.

---------- Post added 04-18-2012 at 10:17 PM ----------

jayefbe said:
Morphology doesn't determine what is a different species. It is whether or not populations interbreed in the wild that determines what is a separate species. Morphology used to identify species are a useful tool and is simply an artifact of whether or not there is interbreeding.

That really crossed my mind at the time, I was certain that various sp. of Avic interbreed with each other, hense a lot of specimens being listed as Avicularia sp. and so on. At the back of my mind, theres the memory of the whole discussion of the G.rosea RCF being listed as G.porteri, UNLESS ITS THE OTHER WAY ROUND, so correct me if im wrong.

jayefbe · Apr 18, 2012

Anytime a name is listed as sp. "whatever" means it is a species that has not been formally described or the tarantula itself is unidentified. Most Avicularia sp. are labelled as such because the whole genus is a taxonomic nightmare. It's unclear what are actually distinct species and it's also very difficult to identify them. Lampropelma sp. "Borneo Black" on the other hand, is clearly its own distinct species. It just hasn't been formally described yet, so it is currently sold as L. sp "Borneo Black". Often you will see unidentified or undescribed tarantulas being identified by the collection location.

Storm76 · Apr 18, 2012

jayefbe said:
Anytime a name is listed as sp. "whatever" means it is a species that has not been formally described or the tarantula itself is unidentified. Most Avicularia sp. are labelled as such because the whole genus is a taxonomic nightmare. It's unclear what are actually distinct species and it's also very difficult to identify them. Lampropelma sp. "Borneo Black" on the other hand, is clearly its own distinct species. It just hasn't been formally described yet, so it is currently sold as L. sp "Borneo Black". Often you will see unidentified or undescribed tarantulas being identified by the collection location.

I've lately seen a lot of Avic sp. that I've never heard of before. I think part of the problem is, that breeders/sellers sometimes also "make up" some "fitting" name for a specimen when it can't be correctly 100% identified?

compnerd7 · Apr 18, 2012

advan said:
Check out this one. "Red variant"

"All images are available in high-quality slide format. Please contact us for pricing and information about ordering these images, and many others not currently in our on-line database." Hmmm.... ???

jayefbe said:
I've never heard of different color forms of A. versicolor. Their coloration will vary dramatically based on size and will vary less dramatically based on the length of time since it last molted. In addition to variation based upon light levels, they can look quite different depending on the situation. Such is the case with all tarantulas.

Agreed.

jayefbe · Apr 18, 2012

Storm76 said:
I've lately seen a lot of Avic sp. that I've never heard of before. I think part of the problem is, that breeders/sellers sometimes also "make up" some "fitting" name for a specimen when it can't be correctly 100% identified?

The whole A. avicularia group is such a mess right now. Unless you have a pair from a single import, and you can guarantee that they were collected in the same location, then it's pretty much impossible to guarantee that there isn't hybridization going on. The absence of a clear taxonomy only adds to the confusion. Hopefully once the genus undergoes its reclassification it won't be so difficult. There's a reason that I've stuck with the clearly distinct Avicularia species.

I was just thinking about it, I could very easily do some population genetics work that could reveal the relationships among many of these Avicularia. It would cost thousands of dollars though.

Storm76 · Apr 18, 2012

jayefbe said:
The whole A. avicularia group is such a mess right now. Unless you have a pair from a single import, and you can guarantee that they were collected in the same location, then it's pretty much impossible to guarantee that there isn't hybridization going on. The absence of a clear taxonomy only adds to the confusion. Hopefully once the genus undergoes its reclassification it won't be so difficult. There's a reason that I've stuck with the clearly distinct Avicularia species.

I was just thinking about it, I could very easily do some population genetics work that could reveal the relationships among many of these Avicularia. It would cost thousands of dollars though.

Yeah, Avic genus (and Aphonopelma, too, like I heard from Jon?) is totally messed up. Obviously there's not a year passing without a "newly discovered Avic species" which probably is just another wild-bred hybrid or color form of an already described species I guess?

A.versicolor Colour Morphs?

Arachnosquire

Arachnoemperor

Arachnoprince

Arachnoemperor

oOOo

Arachnoemperor

oOOo

Arachnolord

Arachnoemperor

Arachnosquire

Arachnolord

Arachnosquire

Arachnolord

Arachnoprince

Arachnosquire

Arachnoprince

Arachnoemperor

Arachnobaron

Arachnoprince

Arachnoemperor