Need second opinion on identification of spiders found

I told my wife the other day that I thought it would be cool to have a widow. Well, while I was gone today my son found some in the storm cellar and him and my wife caught them.
I think I know, but if you can, please help with identifying these.
I believe the first is a male?

And the second a female?


Both of them are very small.... Can I use a large mason jar with small holes in the lid for a container? Just put some coconut fiber and sticks in it? I think I read somewhere that they have to have moisture, is that correct? With them being so small, can they still eat small crickets?
Thanks!!!!

The first image looks like a male L. mactans but the female looks like L. variolus.

They do have significant overlap, it's possible you have both in same spot. Anyway you can get pictures of the hour glass? L. Variolus most commonly have a broken hour glass while L. mactans have a complete one. This is the easiest and surest way to separate the two species.

Cool. Didn't know that. Didn't realize there were northern and southern types.
I will try to get a better pic from the bottom side. Not sure how I will do that.... , but I'll try!
Will both male and female have an hour glass?

---------- Post added 06-11-2012 at 07:20 PM ----------

Not sure if these will be good enough, but maybe some of you experts can tell for sure.

Latrodectus mactans Southern widows.

Ciphor said:

Latrodectus mactans Southern widows.

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Thanks Ciphor!
I planned on getting some kind of docile t for my first spiders, but I guess these are!
I'll be ordering my first t's hopefully real soon. Waiting on one that is molting right now....
Now I just gotta get these guys into something for them to live in! That's gonna be fun....

bowyorang said:

Will both male and female have an hour glass?

Click to expand...

Adult male widows normally still have triangular/hourglass markings (along with other markings). However, you should have no trouble distinguishing between a mature male and a mature female.

Got these made up and widows are in them! Man, them suckers are FAST!!!! My heart was beating a mile a minute! Doesn't help that I have a little touch of arachnophobia! Uhhhggg.... I'm glad they are in there now!
Should these be ok for the duration of their life? Is there somewhere, that I can't seem to find, some type of care sheet or instructions on keeping these buggers healthy?
Thanks!

I'd recommend no substrate at all and turning the enclosures upside down, that way when you have to get in there, you can unscrew the lid on the bottom and not destroy webbing in the process. They'll construct a good amount of webbing, and you'll be going into the enclosure a good amount too for routine reasons, so it's best to turn the enclosures upside down and include a big stick or something to which they can anchor their webs.

Edit: I should add: they are going to migrate towards the top of the enclosure, and that's why you want the lid at the bottom. You're less likely to disturb them with maintenance if you unscrew the lid from the bottom as opposed from the top.

paassatt said:

I'd recommend no substrate at all and turning the enclosures upside down, that way when you have to get in there, you can unscrew the lid on the bottom and not destroy webbing in the process. They'll construct a good amount of webbing, and you'll be going into the enclosure a good amount too for routine reasons, so it's best to turn the enclosures upside down and include a big stick or something to which they can anchor their webs.

Edit: I should add: they are going to migrate towards the top of the enclosure, and that's why you want the lid at the bottom. You're less likely to disturb them with maintenance if you unscrew the lid from the bottom as opposed from the top.

Click to expand...

This is a good method, a lot of latro owners on this site use this upside down enclosure for true spiders.

That being said I personally use other methods that work very well for me. My Theridiids all seem to like their hides at the bottom, and my southern widow definitely likes her substrate. She uses the substrate to cover up other spots around her hide, it's pretty neat. I've noticed a lot of true spider keepers on this forum do not offer their true spiders hides, but offer their T's hides insisting they need it. I would definitely recommend giving the spider somewhere it can feel safe and retreat to when disturbed. I also feed my spiders appropriate sized food, this is important. A lot of people get their spider and feed it stuff X2 bigger then the spider, which results in a partially eaten meal that gets discarded, molds, etc. If you stick to feeding her meals 1/5 the size of the spider (small crickets, etc.) there wont be anything left that will cause mold, and really, I've never had to clean my jars because I follow this rule to the T.

Theres a lot of different ways you can keep your spider though, just make sure you are careful before anything else, this is a potentially deadly spider, and everyone reacts differently to venom.