Phlorid fly larvae killing slings?

catfishrod69 said:

I was wondering what everyones thoughts were to phlorid flies and their larvae possibly killing slings. Thanks.

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catfishrod69 said:

Well thats what i figured. But i have had a outbreak of phlorid flies recently, mainly in my crickets and roaches. But they have been getting in with alot of my other critters too. They have been laying eggs, and hatching out. They can even get into the tiniest pin holes in the sling vials and cups. Recently i had 3 slings die and it really seems like the maggots were the cause. Two of them were doing absolutely fine one day, then the next day they were dead and maggots were crawling out of them. Then i had another one that refused to eat the past two feedings, and was getting skinnier. I kept a eye on it, and last night i found it dead with maggots practically boiling out of its abdomen. These little phlorid flies are a menace and almost impossible to get rid of. What do you think about those 3 slings? Thanks.

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Toogledoo said:

You know what? I think these are the "gnats" I was struggling with. They've killed a few of my 1st instar slings. I caught one that had eaten half of one of my 1st instar A. Diversipes. I found the maggots crawling out of a few of my 1st instar Versicolors as well. I had to put cloth over all of the holes in the incubator. They were in my roach colonies. I just kept cleaning and replacing the egg cartons and they seem to have disappeared. They are a pain! I honestly believe there's a good chance that they're what caused your little T deaths. Good luck!

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Ivymike1973 said:

I haven't heard about it happening but I don't see any reason why they couldn't considering they can do the same with ants and some bees. I am not an entymologist but it doesn't seem like there would be any reason they couldn't lay eggs on a sling.

From Wikipedia:
Many species of phorid fly are specialist parasitoids of ants, but several species in the tropics are parasitoids of stingless bees. These affected bees are often host to more than one fly larva, and some individuals have been found to contain 12 phorid larvae.

I really hope an arachnologist will have a good reason they can't harm slings. I am having a hard enough time keeping the ants away from my critters. I really don't need another thing to worry about.

My condolences on the loss of your slings.

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Pikaia said:

Neither you nor the other responders up to this point have been doing your homework.

WARNING: INCOMING, UNABASHED, SELF-SERVING SALESPITCH
If this sort of thing offends you, please move to the next post in this thread,

or to the next thread.​

Read page 228 and following of TKG3, "Diptera: Phoridae, Humpbacked Flies..." It was written specifically for you!

END WARNING​

Since that was written there have been any number of instances reported where phorids have been responsible for killing tarantulas. It seems to happen mostly in mid to late summer.

'Nuff said! Enjoy your little 8-legged fly baits!

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grayzone said:

Phew... good thing i immediately removed the two i found in this T. cupreus enclosure http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?233043-What-are-these-in-my-enclosure-Need-help been problem free ever since
Hope you get the situation under control john..

Btw, i deleted a ton of photos, but so people can see, these were what I WAS finding in my enclosures.

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Pikaia said:

The only way of getting rid of phorid flies that I know of is to get rid of the things they preferentially live on. In your case that would be the crickets and the roaches. Don't give them to anyone else! They don't want your flies either.

To stifle our phorid infestation we had to get rid of our T. blondi because they act as permanent hosts for the flies, and are nearly obligate swamp dwellers. It was bad news for us, but we did save the rest of our collection.

Also, keeping the wee baby tarantulas drier (though not bone dry) may help slow the flies down a little. But, it's a fine balancing act that will require your close attention. Marching your babies through the "Tweens" stage as soon as possible and into dry adult cages will also help. The eggs and maggots don't survive really well in arid conditions. I'm appending a description of tarantula care that will explain what a "Tweens" stage is.

Best of luck. I hope this helps. Enjoy your little 8-legged wonders.


CAVEATS: Note that the following rules of thumb apply to nearly all tarantulas except a few obligate swamp dwellers, and to the arboreal species, and those are addressed towards the bottom.

BABY TARANTULAS: Those younger tarantulas with a diagonal leg span (DLS) of about 1.5" (3.8 cm) or less should be kept in a relatively closed container that heavily restricts ventilation. The substrate should be kept slightly damp. All this maintains a constant, elevated (but not excessive) humidity. Do not mist; instead, reread the last few sentences carefully. Do not spend a lot of time, energy, effort, or money on fancy containers. Like humanoid babies, these will outgrow their containers soon, thereby wasting all your finest efforts over and over again.

SPIDERLINGS TO ADULTS: Those younger tarantulas with a DLS of about 2" (5 cm) and larger should be kept in cages with dry substrate and supplied a water dish with clean water. Keep almost all of these as arid species. (See the exceptions below.)

TWEENS: Those tarantulas between the aforementioned two sizes should be gradually acclimatized to a dry cage over a period of 2 or 3 molts. Gradually allow the container/cage to dry out, but be very sure to supply a water dish with clean water. You're gradually removing the higher humidity and substituting a water dish as the primary water source. In response, the tarantula develops a thicker, more impervious waxy layer to prevent excessive water loss from its body. All it needs is a little time to adjust.

Note that many tarantulas from semi-arid and arid places like the American Great Plains and the Kalahari Desert can make this transition much earlier in life than these recommended times. But, it does them no harm to wait a little longer either.

SWAMP DWELLERS: These are tarantulas like the species of Theraphosa, Ephebopus, Hysterocrates, Megaphobema, and a few others. These do not have the impervious, water retentive exoskeletons of the other tarantulas and require a constant, high humidity. Keep these in "baby" style cages for their entire lives, adjusting for increased size of course.

Enthusiasts are discovering that wild caught "swampers" will gradually develop a somewhat greater resistance to slightly drier conditions if the transition is done slowly and over an extended period of time. And, those swampers that are bred in captivity fare much better and can tolerate drier cages much better than their wild caught brethren.

ARBOREALS: Wild caught arboreals (assumed to be adults), particularly members of the genus Avicularia fare poorly when first brought into captivity, partly because of "shipping shock" and partly because of the sudden change in environmental conditions. To combat this, they should be initially set up and cared for as babies for the first few weeks (initial recovery period), then quickly switched to a "Tweens" care regimen (secondary acclimatization period) for the first one or two molts. Thereafter keep them as adult, arid tarantulas but maintain a slightly elevated humidity by slightly restricting ventilation. Always supply them a water dish. (In the middle of the night as they hunt for food they'll pussyfoot down to the water dish and take a sip. And being sound asleep, you'll never, EVER know it happened!)

Captive bred arboreals (assumed to be babies or very young spiderlings) usually do not suffer the acclimatization problems that the wild caught ones do, but sometimes suffer shipping shock from bad treatment during transportation. When first received they should be kept as babies (see above) for two or three weeks, then they can be quickly changed over to whatever care regimen is appropriate according to the schedule given here, depending on their size and age.

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Toogledoo said:

You know what? I think these are the "gnats" I was struggling with. They've killed a few of my 1st instar slings. I caught one that had eaten half of one of my 1st instar A. Diversipes. I found the maggots crawling out of a few of my 1st instar Versicolors as well. I had to put cloth over all of the holes in the incubator. They were in my roach colonies. I just kept cleaning and replacing the egg cartons and they seem to have disappeared. They are a pain! I honestly believe there's a good chance that they're what caused your little T deaths. Good luck!

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Directions for using Defenders Hypoaspis Mites against Parasitic and Nuisance Mites on Reptiles, Insects, Tarantulas and Scorpions

Important Note
Animals are often more prone to parasites when already sick or when under stress. You should check that you are providing the right conditions:
 Food and drink - type, quality, quantity and how often you feed.
 Temperature and humidity, lighting and décor.
 That there is no over-crowding and there is minimal disturbance.

If you are concerned about the health of your pet, or the number of parasitic mites is high, please consult a vet. Hypoaspis, being a biological control, cannot be expected to act instantly and cannot cure any underlying illness.

Product Description and Use
Defenders Hypoaspis mites are supplied with a small amount of food (non-parasitic prey mites) in a 500 ml cardboard tube containing an inert peat/vermiculite substrate. Each tube contains 10,000 active stages of predatory Hypoaspis mites.
Hypoaspis are natural predators of many types of small substrate-dwelling pests. This includes reptile mites and other parasitic mites found on invertebrates.
For species that feed on plant material or live crickets, there is often a build-up of nuisance mites, nematodes or flies in the vivarium. Such pests can irritate and often kill invertebrate pets. Defenders Hypoaspis mites are particularly useful for controlling them and preventing their build-up.
Defenders Hypoaspis mites will not harm children, pets or wildlife.

Storage
Storage is not recommended, as once the food prey are consumed, the larger Hypoaspis start to cannibalise their eggs and young and numbers will drop.
However, if you can’t use the product immediately:
 Keep in a cool place, ideally at 15-18oC.
 Keep in the opened jiffy envelope (helps to buffer temperature and humidity).
 Keep out of direct sunlight.
 If product must be stored for more than a day or two, place a damp tissue in the envelope alongside the tube to reduce desiccation.

Environmental Conditions Required by Hypoaspis
In nature, Hypoaspis live in leaf litter and the surface layer of soil. Getting them to work successfully depends on how well you can recreate conditions for their survival in at least part of the vivarium.
Their preferred temperature range is 15-30oC and they require high humidity within the substrate, achieved by misting or wetting to prevent drying out.
Obviously, you still need to maintain the correct conditions for your pet in the other parts of the vivarium.

Application of the Hypoaspis mites
Almost all parasitic mites of vertebrates and invertebrates spend parts of their life off the host and this is mainly when they will fall prey to the Hypoaspis.
With the right environment, the Hypoaspis will remain active for up to 6 weeks, a time-scale that should break the life cycle of the parasites.
For best results:
 Place substrate close to resting places of affected animals.
 Substrate can be laid out in trays that are strapped against raised platforms/branches etc., if necessary.
 Don’t scatter thinly - place in clumps at least 7cm across and 2cm deep.
 Mist/wet the substrate whenever the surface of the peat starts to dry (the colour lightens as it dries). Ensure it is kept moist but not waterlogged.
 If you need more substrate, use garden peat or fine bark or coir.

What to Expect
Please note that any discolouration to the outside of the tube is caused by pigments from the peat passing through the cardboard and is not a problem.
When you open the packet, familiarise yourself with the size and appearance of the Hypoaspis mites. Hold the tube top cap down and remove the base bung. Look at the peat surface and inner sides of the tube to spot the adult Hypoaspis. If you see nothing at first, tap the tube gently on a hard surface. The disturbance should bring a few mites to the surface.
After application of Defenders Hypoaspis, a reduction in parasitic mite numbers is normally noticeable within 2 weeks.
For continuous protection, more mites can be released every 4-6 weeks, depending on need.
Due to the nature of this product and its use in conditions beyond our control, no guarantee of its effectiveness can be given. We do not accept liability for loss, damage or consequential loss (other than human death) arising from the failure of Defenders products to control pests or otherwise.

Defenders Ltd, Coldharbour Farm, Amage Road, Wye, Ashford, TN25 5DB
Tel. 01233 813121 Fax. 01233 813633
Website and online shop: www.defenders.co.uk

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How do I recognise sciarid flies?
Sciarid flies, (sometimes known as fungus gnats), are black midge-like insects about 3mm long. Their young are small white maggots, 4 to 6mm in length, which can be found in the top few millimetres of soil.

What are Hypoaspis mites?
Hypoaspis mites is a soil-dwelling predatory mite which lives on the larvae of soil-living pests such as sciarid flies. The female Hypoaspis are pale brown and up to 1mm in length. The Hypoaspis larvae are almost white.

When is the best time to start controlling sciarid flies?
Hypoaspis miles should be applied at the first sign of sciarid fly infestation. Trials have shown that Hypoaspis can survive without food for several weeks and therefore can also be introduced purely as a preventative treatment.

How long does Hypoaspis take to act?
This will vary according to your conditions, As a rough guide, 4 weeks at 20˚C (68˚F).

Are any special conditions required for Hypoaspis?
Hypoaspis works best in moist conditions with temperatures between 15˚C (60˚F) and 30˚C (86˚F). Temperatures below 12˚C (54˚F) will seriously reduce egg-laying and the build -up of the predators.

How do I apply Hypoaspis?
Very simply. First rotate the tube gently for about ten seconds to thoroughly mix the mites and the protective carrier, and then sprinkle the tube contents evenly between the pots to be treated.

Can I store Hypoaspis before use?
Yes. Two days if the tube is stored on its side at 12-18o C.

Is Hypoaspis harmful to anything else?
Hypoaspis may attack springtail eggs and thrips that pupate on the soil or compost.
Hypoaspis are harmless to children, pets and wildlife.

Does Hypoaspis become a pest after controlling the sciarid fly?
No! Defenders biological controls do not become pests in their own right.

How many Hypoaspis do I need ?
Defenders supply Hypoaspis miles in units of 10,000 mites.

Product Code: HYP01. As a general guide, this is enough to treat 10sqm (or 140 x 30cm (12”) pots) – using approximately one small teaspoon per pot.

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peterUK said:

I had a bad infestation of these nasty little **** which came in on a new spider. They settled in my roach bins and just multiplied and multiplied no matter what i did.
I've finally found a way of really lowering their numbers reasonably quickly and now its just a case of slowly getting rid of the remaining few . . . if that is possible.

The solution ? Predatory Hypoaspis mites.
Recently i been slowly changing my collection over to Asians and the slings prefer it on the damp side, which is the same conditions the phorid flies prefer.
Luckily this is the Hypoaspis mites preferred condition also they eat the fly eggs and larva
I put a reasonable amount of the mites into the roach bins (after spraying them to raise the humidity) and then sprinkled some of the medium that holds the mites around the spider tubs, especially the damper ones. I have also hung non-toxic sticky fly papers around the roach bins which seems to catch the few that are flying about.
So compared to about a month ago I have 95% LESS of the pesky things flying around :biggrin:
I will be buying another application of mites in the very near future for a second dose which will hopefully fully eradicate these pests.

I'm in the UK but there must be a US company that supplies natural pest control.

I have permission from the company that supplied the Hypoaspis mites to copy and post their information sheets.

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goodoldneon said:

A bit off topic, but, if possible, I’d like your opinion, Stan. ...

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catfishrod69 said:

... What gets me, is how do the maggots work? I dont think there is anyway to get inside the sling while the sling is still alive. Horribly enough one of the slings was 1 of my only 3 Idiothele mira. ...

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