Mating or fighting?

I thought these two females were fighting, because it gets pretty violent and they seem to be trying to flip and sting each other. People told me no, they are mating. So I looked up a bunch of scorpion mating vids and none looked this aggressive. I've also seen H. arizonensis doing a different type of "dance" that is much less violent. So I went back to thinking they are fighting. Anyone have any thoughts?

[video=youtube;NcLbiUf1aUk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcLbiUf1aUk[/video]

It seems to start as mating, yes. But I wonder why the specimen switch who grips who on the chelae, that is strange. Did you sex them correctly??
But you did not give them nearly enough space and more importantly (which is important for mating) a way to escape post mating, and nothing to place a spermatophore on. So I am not surprised that this did not turn out as a proper mating...

Regards
Finn

Greenjewls said:

I thought these two females were fighting, ...........People told me no, they are mating. So I looked up a bunch of scorpion mating vids and none looked this aggressive.

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Why would 2 females try and mate?...and if people were telling you they were mating then all you had to do was say..."er, they are both female!"

Greenjewls said:

Anyone have any thoughts?

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Yeh, my thoughts are you just put 2 females together in a small enclosed space, started your cam rolling and stood back hoping for a fight

Hadrurus are apex predators in their natural environment, known for both inter and intraspecific cannibalism....these guys, if they start fighting ,would most probably try to predate on eachother....Chelal grasping and pulling does not normally occur in agressive feeding behaviour. With the latter behaviour they would simply grab on another anywhere they could and start stinging etc..so I still think a mating, that results in fighting....



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That was interesting, really looked like combat of some kind. Ime normally a male quickly grabs the female very aggressively and stings her ASAP as if he is going to kill and eat, I've seen the aculeus go pretty deep into the pleural membrane, it was with 'pallidus" that I witnessed this. The male and female freeze for a few seconds there then the typical "dancing" goes on.

Yeah, it is interesting! I have to thank everyone for input. I was not attempting to mate them. When I found them in the desert they were doing this. I thought they had some sort of grudge to settle, such as who is bigger/stronger and deserves that hunting ground. For all I know, there is a different process for territorial dominance than for predation or mating rituals. I did sex them correctly, and they are both females. In the wild I have seen this species eating each other, even specimen of equal size. I never sexed them in those cases, but I wish I had! I have also come across them mating, which looked similar to this but a lot less movement and "tail wrestling". I have also seen them doing a strange "sizing up" dance where they seem to be trying to determine who's tail is longer, then they break away and the smaller one flees the area.