Anything strange about this regalis?

Shrike

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The enclosure it's being kept in has fake hardwood laminate substrate?
 

Ceratogyrus

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Lol. :) That's my desk. :)
The spider has a folio stripe on either side if the abdomen instead of down the centre. :)
 

Bugmom

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I knew it had something to do with the abdomen looking different, but I couldn't quite place my finger on it (I don't keep pocies)
 

grayzone

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I sure have been seeing a bit more of this lately.

This is the 3rd or 4th "abnormal folio" topic ive seen in the past couple months.
I wonder if there is a significant cause behind these cases (ie possible long term captive inbreeding? etc) or if its merely coincidence?

This case is the strangest of all lately, usually its a wobbly or slanted folio.


Is there any interesting/ out of the norm behavior being observed with your T?
 

madamoisele

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I sure have been seeing a bit more of this lately.

This is the 3rd or 4th "abnormal folio" topic ive seen in the past couple months.
I wonder if there is a significant cause behind these cases (ie possible long term captive inbreeding? etc) or if its merely coincidence?

This case is the strangest of all lately, usually its a wobbly or slanted folio.


Is there any interesting/ out of the norm behavior being observed with your T?
You know, many animals start to demonstrate color mutations (going white, or whiter, for example) when they get so far along in the generations of captive breeding. Your comment makes me wonder if we're starting to see the first signs of semi-domestication.
 

grayzone

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at this point, anybodys guess is as good as mine..
Its just strange that there have been multiple cases being shown lately (keep in mind its international as well) .. maybe multiple generations of breeding with the few WC that started it all in each area is starting to catch up..

I wonder if the tarantulas that are slightly off (in one way or another) are somehow handicapped? Are tarantulas even ABLE to be handicapped the way humans and other living things are (ie down syndrome)
 

Hobo

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I believe it's a not-so-exteme case of a conjoined abdomen.
I wouldn't breed anything like that.
 

zonbonzovi

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As a fan of medical anomalies in humans, that reminds me of a monozygote that began to develop into two spiders but for whatever reason remained fused. Kind of like Kyuzo's two-tailed scorpion or the two-headed turtles/snakes that turn up at reptile zoos.

Edit: Hobo is so quick on the draw!
 

grayzone

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I believe it's a not-so-exteme case of a conjoined abdomen.
I wouldn't breed anything like that.
While i understand and am quick to agree that it looks like it is a possible conjoined, im in a bit of a disagreement on the 2nd part.
Why NOT breed it?

Not for sale, or for trade or anything like that, but raising up the entire batch of slings to see if similar symptoms pass to offspring would be rather interesting. Use the OFFSPRING as breeding projects as well, and see how far this goes.
Would be cool to see if its hereditary.
 

AvicVerso

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Hey also how do we know its not more of a chance mutation? I mean evolution happens by just weird anomalies like that. Its like moths that are grey in industrial areas (blend in better on soot walls so grey is selected for) but are brown in the surrounding country-side (because bark is brown so it is selected for) could it be that a dual folio is just an aberration and should be treated more as a different hair color than a down-syndrome spider?

Aka not a big deal and breed it because it is simply a recessive color form.

basically I am making the same argument as madamoisele (and am interested in that "captive mutation" argument, never heard of that before) but I am trying to say that maybe if someone was to collect ALL the p.regalis a dual folio would be present normally in the population, just really small numbers
 

zonbonzovi

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I'm not a geneticist, nor do I play one on TV but the symmetry makes me think its' strange "pants" were developed at the developing egg stage.
 

Hobo

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Remember that the heart, and other important organs are located in the abdomen.
I would think that selectively breeding individuals with physical deformities especially in the abdomen wouldn't be a good thing, if not completely irresponsible. This doesn't seem to me to be just a "color form", IMO.

Google "conjoined abdomen tarantula" and you'll see how extreme they can get. I don't see how it can be an advantage in any situation, seeing as how very few make it past first instar let alone adulthood.
 

grayzone

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yes, i am aware of that.
And I still cant see how breeding the ts with abnormalities can be called irresponsible, if done responsibly. There are lots of people (im sure) that have done controlled experiments with these guys (not to mention other living things). Take for example, the people that have tried the H word (not going to start the debate in this thread) to experiment, then froze the slings.
Sometimes, its a good way to learn more about them in general?

I will just quit typing before i get too jumbled. I wish i had the word, or the smarts to back up what im trying to say
 

Storm76

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I've seen some pictures of that stuff, one was actually by TC (was it Amanda who posted it up?) - correct me if I'm wrong Hobo! Wouldn't breed such a T either. Personally and this is only an assumption out of the blue with no data to back it up - I'm starting to assume such things might be more likely to occur due to the inbreeding? OR it's plain simply a "birth defect" like some childs experience in humans? Either way - I'd try keep that one alive until such time where it obviously has health problems...
 

grayzone

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which is kind of why i think it WOULD be cool to see breeding done storm.

Would be interesting to see if the deformities are a recessive trait, and could the study COULD EVENTUALLY PROVE that long term inbreeding in captivity could be bad!
A LOT of people sort of stick to the tried and true in the hobby, which i respect seeing how im a hobbiest.
I just see no wrong experimenting as long as its a controlled experiment, and whoever is doing so has pure intentions.

Raise the offspring up to adulthood. If there ARE offspring with the same (or different) apparent abnormalities, pair them up amongst themselves (as well as with the "normal" siblings .. repeat.. repeat.. Keep track of numbers, keep good records, and report.
All the while ensuring none of these creep their way into the hobby
 
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