Near-death Avic avic: DKS? Please help!

Lefty

Arachnopeon
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Jun 7, 2013
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My Avic avic is near death. Please help advise me and disambiguate between DKS and (fingers crossed) an extended premolt + stress.

Age: ≈ 4 years
Self-fast period: 3 months
Last bedding change: 1.5 months

The Avic avic, unsexed but will be referred to as she/her herein, first started acting strange 2 months ago where I'd repeatedly find her stuck on the top of her enclosure—seemingly unable to "let go". After observing her climbing behavior in different scenarios, it appears control of her tarsal claws is a factor.

After each "rescue", assuming dehydration I'd physically place her in a horizontal channel of her enclosure, where she'd readily "swash" her sternum left and right in the water and later drag her maxilla/labium across the droplets on the walls.

Her movement for the past month has regressed from stiff/slow to now only responding to external stimuli. To put things into grim perspective, last night I gently placed her on her back. She'd be right where I left her today if I didn't replace her upright.

Her strange movement closely resembles http://youtu.be/lIQTc9JGSKc and not nearly as sporadic as http://youtu.be/Y_jTwAAlpbA.

During the past 2 weeks, she's spent a total of 72 hours in an ICU, where each time I successfully positioned her sternum in [and her book lungs out of] a shallow water dish.

While she has never flicked, she does have a distinctively darker spot on the dorsal side of her abdomen. (Of which I think is thick, velvety fur, not skin.)

Pre and post bedding change, spanning (and exceeding) this 3 month period, she has laid out zero web.

Historically, she molts where she spends most of her time - in one of the vertical channels of her enclosure. I'm worried we both think its circumference isn't large enough this time. If true, could she be restraining from molting? There are plenty of flat open areas she could molt. They are, however, unpopulated with cork bark or other vertical standing material, in case she wants to molt while suspended.

Should I assume the culprit stiffness of premolt and leave her alone? Or assume DKS and hand feed her? Please advise!
 
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freedumbdclxvi

Arachnoprince
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Was she stuck on a screen top? Why assume dehydration when stuck? When was the last molt? You say "last bedding change" - how oftrn do you do this and why? Pics of the spider and enclosure help, too.
 

Lefty

Arachnopeon
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Jun 7, 2013
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Was she stuck on a screen top?
No, ≤ pencil thick factory holes in the plastic. I've masked the majority of them, but I'm now considering inlaying screen mesh.

Why assume dehydration when stuck? When was the last molt?
Good question. With 1+ legs stuck, the rest remain animated, ever reaching. If/when undetected for up to 16 hours, I assumed she'd be thirsty. The last molt was ≈ 1 year ago (unrecorded unfortunately).

You say "last bedding change" - how oftrn do you do this and why? Pics of the spider and enclosure help, too.
I try to once a year. I exclude highly webbed areas. Pics pending...
 

Arachtion

Arachnobaron
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Mar 27, 2013
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I've found this is either usually one of three things, lack of ventilation, dehydration or pesticide exposure, ICU her, then check the enclosure for correct ventilation and change substrate/thoroughly clean (to eliminate any possible residual chemicals) and see if she pulls through. Good luck
 

Lefty

Arachnopeon
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I've found this is either usually one of three things, lack of ventilation, dehydration or pesticide exposure, ICU her, then check the enclosure for correct ventilation and change substrate/thoroughly clean (to eliminate any possible residual chemicals) and see if she pulls through. Good luck
She's in an ICU now but ugh, she looks worse today. While "walking" (awkwardly stumbling), I noticed her right chelicera and fang was extended. I've never seen a healthy T do that (excluding when eating/grooming). To me, that awkward, involuntary asymmetry affirmed my worst case scenario: DKS. I'll attempt to hand-feed her toward a molt, in hopes that the DKS won't succeed it.

To those inexperienced with hand-feeding: I hand-fed my sub-adult Psalmopoeus irminia (Venezuelan Suntiger) for an entire year after she molted without fangs. It was a long year, but her next molt featured a pair of shiny new fangs and she proceeded to molt normally again and again thereafter until maturity. My procedure was nip the heads off king worms and, like a tube of toothpaste, squeeze their innards onto the T's straining hairs & mouth. Most Ts protest handling (obviously), especially being grabbed (by the usual technique) and flipped upside down. Luckily I was able to take advantage of her nasty temperament: 1 puff from me, like clockwork = scary rearing tarantula; of course, being an ornamental-type T, she always rests vertically (vertical alignment + puff = 90° rear or horizontal thorax, ventral side up). Without fangs (knife and fork?), she'd need to press her mouth-parts against the glass to properly shovel it in—which she always did.
 
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Arachtion

Arachnobaron
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377
She's in an ICU now but ugh, she looks worse today. While "walking" (awkwardly stumbling), I noticed her right chelicera and fang was extended. I've never seen a healthy T do that (excluding when eating/grooming). To me, that awkward, involuntary asymmetry affirmed my worst case scenario: DKS. I'll attempt to hand-feed her toward a molt, in hopes that the DKS won't succeed it.

To those inexperienced with hand-feeding: I hand-fed my sub-adult Psalmopoeus irminia (Venezuelan Suntiger) for an entire year after she molted without fangs. It was a long year, but her next molt featured a pair of shiny new fangs and she proceeded to molt normally again and again thereafter until maturity. My procedure was nip the heads off king worms and, like a tube of toothpaste, squeeze their innards onto the T's straining hairs & mouth. Most Ts protest handling (obviously), especially being grabbed (by the usual technique) and flipped upside down. Luckily I was able to take advantage of her nasty temperament: 1 puff from me, like clockwork = scary rearing tarantula; of course, being an ornamental-type T, she always rests vertically (vertical alignment + puff = 90° rear or horizontal thorax, ventral side up). Without fangs (knife and fork?), she'd need to press her mouth-parts against the glass to properly shovel it in—which she did.
Well it's not game over yet, I stupidly used snake mite spray in the "rep room" and have had to ICU around ten specimens and out of those only 2 died, I kept them in a cricket tub with damp tissue and kept them a little warmer also and most made full recoveries.
 

freedumbdclxvi

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I guess my next question is why change the bedding when you knew she was 6 weeks into a fasting period while a molt was possibly pending?
 

goodoldneon

Arachnoknight
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I'll ask the obvious question - are you sure you're not in possession of a mature male?
 

Lefty

Arachnopeon
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Jun 7, 2013
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Welp, she passed. I noticed she pooped herself this afternoon in the ICU. As I dabbed her spinnerets and... tubercle with cotton swabs, she went into a slo-mo death curl. :( When gently touching her abdomen, I noticed it was soft, not firm. That was—off-putting. Has anyone else ever noticed that in a live [or seconds after the death of a] specimen?

I'll fill a report in JC's DKS thread once I have all the facts.

Thanks kindly for all the responses.

I guess my next question is why change the bedding when you knew she was 6 weeks into a fasting period while a molt was possibly pending?
Stupidity? I guess I was hoping a clean enclosure would help. I wasn't as worried about disturbing her as my other Ts because she lived in one of these (sans gerbil, wheel, sawdust, etc.):

Habitrail Ovo suite inteira.jpg
Habitrail OVO Suite. For scale, the larger unit (the "OVO Pad") is ≈ the length of a watermelon. The unit above: a cantaloupe.​

The highly webbed right vertical shafts was where she resided while I changed the bedding (peat moss) in the applicable units.

I'll ask the obvious question - are you sure you're not in possession of a mature male?
She was so small yet. I've had 1 MM in my collection; he did walk like an old man in his end days, but not like this.
 

goodoldneon

Arachnoknight
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All sorts of red flags are popping up over here. Many of them having to do with the veracity of the claims being made, to name one of but one hundred or more or less, give or take.
 

Lefty

Arachnopeon
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All sorts of red flags are popping up over here. Many of them having to do with the veracity of the claims being made, to name one of but one hundred or more or less, give or take.
goodoldneon, I reread your post several times and I'm still scratching my head. I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean.
 

Storm76

Arachnoemperor
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I could be dead-wrong - but why would anyone house an arboreal tarantula (or any T for that matter) in those...things?! I've never seen anything like that before (which doesn't mean it's wrong), but like neon, there are red flags popping up in my head regarding those....

To name some red-flags...
a) water access - your T is not a gerberil that can nom on a metal/plastic ball to make the water flow, so chances of dehydration are high
b) humidty - due to the water being in that enclosed part, it cannot evaporate and hence humidity in that enclosure was possibly not even happening at all really
c) she can't really web anywhere in there except those tubes maybe, but it's a very unnatural place for her most likely and she got confused
d) the bigger "balls" of that thing aren't suitable for any T either it's just space, nothing else - an arboreal will likely totally ignore them
e) the "bedding" you have in there doesn't look like substrate, more like either vermiculite or something else...?

Personal suggestion:
House your T in a correct terrarium (enclosure) with some natural cork-bark, some fake (or natural if you'd like) plants to anchor webbing onto, a nicely sized waterbowl so she can drink and to get humidity up in it and good ventilation (vents, holes, ribs-...whatnot).

I'm sorry that the T died, but seing that enclosure - I'm honestly not surprised. And although this might sound harsh - but that was bad care on your end. Poor Avic.
 
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