Whew..

Elytra and Antenna

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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Sep 12, 2002
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I saw the broodsac crack open near the back from the female inflating and deflating her abdomen two days ago and the postembryos did not seem to have any interest in hatching. I checked on her every few hours and no progress. Each check I was growing closer to expecting to see a broodsac of dead postembryos lying on the cage floor being eaten by isopod scavengers. Failure is not a rarity with Heterophrynus and I had been waiting with some worry for a little over five and a half months.

Fortunately I got this nice pic of the postembryos beginning to hatch out (I got a ton of different developmental photos for the book but not this stage of this species, Heterophrynus batesii, unfortunately). They are very active as they arrange themselves on the mother and then settle down and hold tight. This was a pretty massive broodsac and her entire opisthosoma is now covered, front, sides, and back by white colored 1st instars, two thick in some parts.

HbatesiiHatchingSmall.JPG
 
A

Ambly

Arachnobaron
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Congrats! Absolutely jealous! Enjoy, looking forward to more pictures
 
Spepper

Spepper

Arachnodemon
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Jul 22, 2013
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Nice! I have a question though. I have heard people talking of first and second instar... but what does instar mean exactly?
 
M

Michiel

Arachnoking
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Nice E and A! Glad it went well for you..

An instar is the period between molts in scorpions. Since whip spiders molt throughout their lives, the term instar is not used. In whips we speak of praenymphs, protonymphs,deutonymphs, tritonymphs and so on.....These are praenymphs and after their first molt they are protonymphs.....

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Elytra and Antenna

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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An instar is an immature developmental stage between molts for arthropods. It is somewhat standard across crustaceans, arachnids, and insects but as Michiel points out there are secondary terms various workers have applied to different groups, but without the consensus he implies. Michiel has given you pseudoscorpion terminology but pseudscorpions do have an ultimate molt so his explanation is suspect. Also, he is confused because he assumes these are hatching from eggs rather than postembryos which developed from eggs three months earlier. I would request that Michiel begins his own threads discussing differences in developmental terminology among arthropod workers than poison other's threads with off topic opinion.
 
M

Michiel

Arachnoking
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I adopted this terminology from Weygoldt. He uses these terms in his papers on amblypygids. My post was about giving one answer to the question about what an instar is, not to 'poison' your thread. You seem rather sensitive about it by the way.

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Elytra and Antenna

Elytra and Antenna

Arachnoking
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Michiel said:
I adopted this terminology from Weygoldt. He uses these terms in his papers on amblypygids. My post was about giving one answer to the question about what an instar is, not to 'poison' your thread. You seem rather sensitive about it by the way.

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I am a huge fan of Weygoldt but where did he say "an instar is (only)the period between molts for scorpions." ? Where did he write instar is not allowed? If you quote someone it is unfair to inject your own opinions.
 
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Shell

Shell

ArachnoVixen AKA Dream Crusher AKA Heartbreaker
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Mod Note

Keep it civil, and on topic people. Childish bickering will not be tolerated, and if we see any more this thread will be closed and infractions handed out as needed.

People will have varying opinions, that's life. You don't have to like that, but if you're going to post on the forum you have to at least accept that. If anyone has issues with someone, take it to PM's.
 
Ciphor

Ciphor

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Science ceases to be science when you deal in absolutes.

"An instar is a developmental stage of arthropods, such as insects, between each molt (ecdysis), until sexual maturity is reached."
Allaby, Michael - A Dictionary of Ecology page 234. Oxford University Press, USA, 2006.

"Ecdysis is the moulting of the cuticula in many invertebrates. This process of moulting is the defining feature of the clade Ecdysozoa, comprising the arthropods, nematodes, velvet worms, horsehair worms, tardigrades, and Cephalorhyncha."
Ewer, John - How the ecdysozoan changed its coat - PLoS Biology 2005

Forgot to add, sometimes, science gives a more specific term to a broadly defined process or feature. For example, in spiders, the broad term for the rear segment is the abdomen, which it is an abdomen, but it is also defined as the opisthosoma. Calling it the abdomen and opthisoma are both accurate.

So, you are both likely correct on some level, you are just experiencing what many experience in science, varying words to describe the same thing.
 
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BiophilicGinger

BiophilicGinger

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Jul 19, 2013
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I acquired seven Heterophrynus batesii out of this brood on October 9, 2013. Four of the seven are fourth instar (or whatever you prefer to call them) and the other three are very close to ecdysis. Awesome creatures! I'm glad everything worked out and gave me the opportunity to work with this species. I hope he has repeat success...I need more. :)
 

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