Acanthoscurria fracta question

I just picked up a pair of Acanthoscurria fracta one thing I noticed is they are very aggressive. More aggressive than a geniculata or any other Acanthoscurria sp. that I have come across with. So my first question is I notice that The World Spider Catalog does not have listed A. fracta did the name change by any chance? The care for this sp. will it be the same as geniculata or somewhat similar? I have been waiting a long time for this species so I am new with this one so any information would be helpful. Here is a couple of photos of the female. Thanks!

Nice rare spider. Definitely hard to come by. A. fracta is synonyms with A. natalensis. See this paper. To confuse things, A. natalensis was in the hobby some years back, but it was actually Nhandu carapoensis, so if you google A. natalensis, most of the pics are N. carapoensis. ( I hope that makes sense) I haven't had A.fracta/natalensis in probably over a decade, but I had no problem keeping them like any other Acanthoscurria.

Later, Tom

Philth said:

Nice rare spider. Definitely hard to come by. A. fracta is synonyms with A. natalensis. See this paper. To confuse things, A. natalensis was in the hobby some years back, but it was actually Nhandu carapoensis, so if you google A. natalensis, most of the pics are N. carapoensis. ( I hope that makes sense) I haven't had A.fracta/natalensis in probably over a decade, but I had no problem keeping them like any other Acanthoscurria.

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Thanks. I thought it was odd that the artist known as 'A. natalensis' looked surprisingly a lot like N. carapoensis, but assumed it was convergent evolution. That explain the similarity.

Is this the case with Lasiodora crista and Nhandu chromatus too? One and the same? I've also read that some taxonomists think that chromatus, which has bounced around in a couple of genera, isn't a particularly good fit in Nhandu either.

Tom, it is confusing for me to fully understand what it says on that paper. Quite honestly this species of the female and male are evil, she and he attacks and puts up a fight when I first tried to put her in her new environment. They literally flipped on their back side when I was trying to put them in their enclosure. Definitely a very aggressive species I was not expecting this behavior from them. They make some old world aggressive species look silly. No doubt one nice rare species. The female is about 6" inches and the male about 4" inches I hope they live long enough for breeding which they should but anything can go wrong. Thanks for the info.

Jose
www.exoskeletoninverts.com
support@exoskeletoninverts.com

The only other one I've seen was absolutely defensive to a ridiculous degree. I have heard this is normal for them.

jose said:

Tom, it is confusing for me to fully understand what it says on that paper.

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Basically the proper label for this spider is now Acanthoscurria natalensis.

Poec54 said:

Is this the case with Lasiodora crista and Nhandu chromatus too? One and the same? I've also read that some taxonomists think that chromatus, which has bounced around in a couple of genera, isn't a particularly good fit in Nhandu either.

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Yes exactly, Lasiodora cristata is the old name for what we now call Nhandu chromatus, so if you Google L. cristata you get a bunch of old pictures and info on N. chromatus. I've also heard that N. chromatus isn't the best fit for Nhandu so I wouldn't be surprised if the name is changes again one day. I'm not a taxonomists by any means , but a pretty well known trait of Nhandu is the long hairs that grow on the carapace. I suspect that's where the confusion comes from.

Notice the clean look of N. chromatus compared to the others....
1. N. chromatus
2. N. carapoensis
3. N. tripepii ( use to be N. vulpinus)
4. N. coloratovillosus



Later, Tom

You didn't happen to pick up that pair from snakecollector at JTreptiles did you? I didn't see he had a pair until they were listed as sold! Beautiful species. Hope you have luck breeding them.

natebugman said:

You didn't happen to pick up that pair from snakecollector at JTreptiles did you? I didn't see he had a pair until they were listed as sold! Beautiful species. Hope you have luck breeding them.

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Yes! They came from them. Here is a photo of both of them, they both did not want me to clean up after their food that they had last night. They attacked the tweezers that I was using to remove the left over. It was not just the thread pose that they were doing, they attack!


Jose
www.exoskeletoninverts.com
support@exoskeletoninverts.com

New member of the Acanthoscurria natalensis/fracta family!

Earlier this year I purchased two Acanthoscurria natalensis/fracta one 6" inch female and the other a 4" inch immature male. For a while I kept thinking that the immature male was probably female do to the fact by ventral sexing and taking to long to molt. As of today it has not molted since I received it. Today I received two new member to this species one did not make it in transit though. No this thread is not about me complaining about the dead spider or the immature male being a female. This thread is about getting another member of the Acanthoscurria natalensis/fracta family. The good thing with this new member it is definitely a immature male after absorbing the ventral view of the two that are closely equal in size. This made my day! I really want to breed this species and get babies out to the hobby. I'm glad I was able to get one more that someone had in his collection. Here is a photo of the trio... The top one is the new member immature male and the other two are the females. And it is true what people say about them, this species is the devils pet!!!

Awesome good luck man, I will definitely be taking some slings if you get lucky with them. Good Luck!

Later, Tom

Philth said:

Awesome good luck man, I will definitely be taking some slings if you get lucky with them. Good Luck!

Later, Tom

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Thanks Tom! I'm hoping to get good results. The position that this spider put me in was scary cause of their attitude nature that they have. I tried to put him in the container as you can see he climbed up my hand and it took me a while to get him off. Never again! He is very skinny but alert I will have to do some heavy feeding.


Jose

I'll be wanting some slings as well, Jose. I love the angry T's, and yours are some of the meanest I've seen.

Philth said:

Basically the proper label for this spider is now Acanthoscurria natalensis.



Yes exactly, Lasiodora cristata is the old name for what we now call Nhandu chromatus, so if you Google L. cristata you get a bunch of old pictures and info on N. chromatus. I've also heard that N. chromatus isn't the best fit for Nhandu so I wouldn't be surprised if the name is changes again one day. I'm not a taxonomists by any means , but a pretty well known trait of Nhandu is the long hairs that grow on the carapace. I suspect that's where the confusion comes from.

Notice the clean look of N. chromatus compared to the others....
1. N. chromatus
2. N. carapoensis
3. N. tripepii ( use to be N. vulpinus)
4. N. coloratovillosus



Later, Tom

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Wow those pictures make me happy I'm getting Chromatus rather than any other Nhandu!

Yentlequible said:

I'll be wanting some slings as well, Jose. I love the angry T's, and yours are some of the meanest I've seen.

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Man I tell you I'm hoping for the best with this species. I'm really glad I was able to get another one and which it turned out an immature male so I will have two females for him when he matures. It could be another year but it will be worth the wait. Some of you are probably thinking they just look like another brown spider, but their attitude, long legs and when they are freshly molt makes up the beauty in this monster devil species.


Jose

Acanthoscurria natalensis/fracta spermathecae

I want to post a photo of the Acanthoscurria natalensis/fracta spermathecae. This spermathecae photo is of my 4" inch female, she just molted this morning. I have a 6"+ female that I'm waiting on for her to molt so I can get a better photo of an adult spermathecae. I did not see a photo of this species when I did a google search of the spermathecae, so if there is one out there sorry I missed it. Hope this photo will be in some use for the future and hopefully the beginning of having some offsprings of this species in the hobby once my immature male matures. Here is some photos of the spermathecae and a freshly molted Acanthoscurria natalensis/fracta female. Since it is cold outside I had to take this photos inside. Thanks for looking!


Jose

Acanthoscurria natalensis/fracta redescription

As some of as are aware of the new description of the Acanthoscurria fracta is now natalensis. I'm providing a link to the ABSTRACT rediscription of this species. I have a few issues with the new description, problem number one:
The photo provided with the ABSTRACT description of the spermathecae is not the same as the Acanthoscurria fracta that I have.
Second problem:
The photo provided with the ABSTRACT description of the spider itself is not the the same spider that I have or most of us has know as Acanthoscurria fracta. In the hobby we have seen photos of what the Acanthoscurria fracta has always looked like from Rick West website to doing a google search on some previous owners that have had this species. After speaking with a couple of people about the change some of them think that the Acanthoscurria fracta that we have known in the hobby is probably a species that has been identify but under a different name. Which one? Or it has not ever been identify at all! My opinion is I think the person who redescribed this species might up screwed up. This is only my best opinion based on that the Acanthoscurria fracta are from the Northern Brazil the state of Para and parts of Guyana. The Acanthoscurria natalensis are from southern Brazil I know the Amazon river splits the two species apart whether this means anything I don't know?
Now I don't know what to call my spider wether to stick with Acanthoscurria fracta thinking that this person screwed up describing this species or Acanthoscurria sp. Guyana since that is where they were imported from and of the possibility that this species has not yet been described. I could also call it Acanthoscurria sp. Para since the common name is Para Mongo Zebra of this species. If anyone has any additional information please provide. For all we know the species I have or others have might get transferred back to its original Acanthoscurria fracta name, since it has happen in the past with other species. Here is the link please take the time to look thoroughly. http://www.scielo.br/pdf/zool/v28n4/v28n4a15.pdf


Jose

Dangit. I want all the Acanthoscurria that I can get my hands on. Their attitudes are what makes them so awesome to me. One of my favorite species. But I really dislike having T's that I'm not sure on their species (as then, what do I say if/when I breed?)

Of course here in New Mexico we have the same issue. We (friends and I) have collected something like 15 Aphonopelma species from within a 20ish mile radius, and almost all of them are uniquely colored. Because they are so dang slow growing, it'll be sooooo long before we have molts to compare spermethecae for the females.

Tarantula identifying: A lesson in patience like no other!

Whatever they are, I hope breeding goes well....I want one, too!!!

Latest update

The latest update I have on the Acanthoscurria fracta is, when my adult female molts I will be sending the molt to Rick West (Canada) and than Rick West will be sending the molt to Dr. Rogerio Bertani (Brazil) to do a further investigation research on this species. I'm determine to try to find out why this species is no longer under the name Acanthoscurria fracta.
It seems a few years ago at a research lab facility in Brazil was caught on fire and some specimens that were burnt were 100 year old, rare and extinct species were lost also. Here is the link to what happen in research lab facility in Brazil. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8685921.stm my understanding to data or specimens were not save from the fire. This is a huge loss to humanity!
Well I hope once the molt of my adult female Acanthoscurria fracta gets sent to Dr. Rogerio Bertani he will be able to find some answers.


Jose

---------- Post added 02-14-2014 at 03:48 PM ----------

cold blood said:

Whatever they are, I hope breeding goes well....I want one, too!!!

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I'm hoping for good results once the male matures. I do find this species on the slow growing side. I don't mine though I can't wait until the male matures I hear that they are very pretty.


Jose

Good old fashioned taxonomic hell as usual lol.. yeah this change has been in effect for a little while now. I'm as lost as you or most other people would be. What's on Rick Wests site and what some owners had has Pamphobeteus-like coloration, and what most people post as fracta looks like insubtilis or juruencola, all of which look very similar in search results. On top of that, what people ALSO have had in the past they listed as natalensis looks nothing like the natalensis in the article. It's a total confusing mess. Maybe one of us has to hunker down and read through description articles? *cue scary music* Real tragic that fire.. what a horrible loss for arachnoculture