issues with loaning out males (rant)

So a while back I had sent out some male T's for the first time. Its almost been five months and I have barely heard a word of how their female is doing after the loan and there is still one male that has never even made it back to me... I sent him a pm a few weeks ago about when he's going to return my male but haven't heard anything back yet, and according to his last activity he hasn't signed on in a while--which could be the reason I havent heard from him but still he has my T and I expect updates!
After some thinking, I figured I could totally get screwd over either by the other party keeping all the slings and claiming a dud sack or not even a sac at all, or let's say the guy who currently has my male for a loooong period of time sent out my male and is loaning him out without my knowing. I'm still going to be loaning males but I'm going to make it clear that I want an EXACT return date or time frame for how long that individual will be keeping my male T, and log it in a journal. All in all first loaning experience dissapointing...

Any good countermeasures for getting screwd over on a loan?

-JohnD.

Sounds like you just got the short straw on your turn. It happens, and cant be completely avoided 100%. Best thing to do is be positive you can trust the person before loaning. Check reviews, send some pms to people who have reviewed that person, be vigilant. About all you can do really. Sorry it happened to you, John.

I was thinking of loaning out my male GBB (since he's clearly ready for more, but my only female wants nothing to do with anyone or anything since their pairing). This is precisely what has kept me from doing so so far. :s

catfishrod69 said:

Sounds like you just got the short straw on your turn. It happens, and cant be completely avoided 100%. Best thing to do is be positive you can trust the person before loaning. Check reviews, send some pms to people who have reviewed that person, be vigilant. About all you can do really. Sorry it happened to you, John.

Click to expand...

From what I saw there were good reviews for the most of them and I wanted to give at least some noobies a chance since we were all there at some point. Now I'm contemplating on whether to add to their reviews about their lack of communication. I'm going to be loaning another set of males out next week and hopefully this time'll be a bit more productive; maybe start a habit of pming the receiver once a week for an update.

JohnDapiaoen said:

From what I saw there were good reviews for the most of them and I wanted to give at least some noobies a chance since we were all there at some point. Now I'm contemplating on whether to add to their reviews about their lack of communication. I'm going to be loaning another set of males out next week and hopefully this time'll be a bit more productive; maybe start a habit of pming the receiver once a week for an update.

Click to expand...

I feel for you here. Always difficult to know just how much it takes to deserve a negative review. In my opinion, communication is imperative when it comes to all classified sales and loans. I ALWAYS make contacting the other party a priority, but have heard that not everyone takes it so seriously. Your idea of touching base once a week is probably a good practice. In the future, it would probably be best to swap regular email addresses as well, to assist in contact when members do not log on to the forums for extended periods.

Sad to see this is a common problem.
Here is SA, there are lots of people who no longer do breeding loans (Myself included).
There are just too many people that try and make a quick buck off of someone here that it's not worth lining someone else's pockets.

Sorry to hear about that.....been there done that

back in the day I had someone burn me on a loan.......said they never got anything and next thing you know they were selling slings

I personally don't do loan trades as I just pass on the MM to anyone willing to collect.

IF I did, communication is key to the success of the operation IMO.

Most mobile phones, and other gadgets have some form of camera these days and are usually linked straight to the net.

It only take a few seconds to snap a quick picture of a tarantula tank of a female guarding a eggsack, would it be too much to ask for one bi-weekly just as an update and a piece of mind that you aren't being scammed?

I also feel thats poor practice on who ever you loaned the males too, if they were aware they wouldn't be around for a certain period of time or something along those lines its only takes a cuple of minutes to log in here and drop the user a PM letting them know the situation.

Shameful really, there are so many people in this hobby that wouldn't even consider the thought of scamming other hobbyists.... then you get the one tosspot who ruins it for everyone and create an air of apprehension surrounding loaning.

i wont loan ever again...

first guy had great communication at first but disappeared off the face of the planet when it came time to send the MM onward.

the next/LAST keeper was even more aggravating. the person had 3 AF's.. so i was stoked to send him my super fresh MM ($50-60 MM) his way. i even payed for express shipping to get him there in a hurry / safely. i was notified of the safe arrival...then i didnt hear from the guy for well over 2 months. i finally messaged him saying:??? whats going on with the projects??? he basically tells me...o sorry i havnt messaged you, i had a death in the family and i havnt been able to work with them...i will in the near future.
another month went by and he gave me an update...."i put him with one of the AF's and he didnt seem interested...havnt noticed any sperm webs either, do you want me to send him back"?
he said he had a longer, more detailed message but accidentally lost/deleted it before sending...plus he wasnt skilled enough to send me any pictures what so ever.
i would have written this guy a bad review...but he sort of redeemed himself with some other MM's i needed a few months later. he never gave me any more updates on the MM i sent. and keep in mind...this was a guy that supposedly has been in the hobby for a long time...i even heard he's written articles for the national geographic.
and before i sent the MM, he told me he had like 10 other MM's on loan he was working with...i wonder if any of them had a good experience...last time i checked his review thread, i didnt see anything positive in the way of loans.

Sorry about your crappy experience! Some people just don't have any integrity. Others are just irresponsible/fickle I suppose.

I'm new to the hobby but I've always wondered how loaning generally works. If I don't breed myself one day I'd like to send some Ts to be bred. Can for anyone tell me how the process usually works, who pays what, how profits are split (I assume the breeder keeps quite a bit more for their trouble?), etc.? Is it rough on the Ts being sent back and forth?

Do most people on here breed or loan?

Ive always been pretty lucky when sending out males on loan. Always had communication back. I dont need it to be every week or so. But every once in a while is fine with me, as long as they make the effort. If the female is looking gravid id like to hear that. Or if anything even better than that, they should tell me. Ive also been a very good person to send males to. I keep great communication, and do just as they ask. If they want the male back, i send it back. If they want him forwarded to someone else, i forward him when im done. If they need help finding someone else to loan the male to, i help out. I let them know how the pairing is going, if the female is remodeling or looking gravid, when a sac is laid, and provide pics in my pairing thread, when the sac is pulled, more pics, when the slings are molting, more pics, when they are ready to go, more pics. And i am sure to get their address, and keep in contact with them to make sure the slings arrived in good shape. If nothing with the females seems to be happening, and they dont hear from me in a couple weeks, they send me a pm, and i immediately let them know whats going on.

Communication is key to interacting with people on here. Even some of the best people to deal with have lacking communication. Then some people that have no reviews at all have excellent communication. I completely understand when life gets in the way, and they are unable to contact me for a little while. But when someone can login every day, and never answer back, that just isnt right. So basically its trial and error to who you send your males to. You never know whats going to happen.

fyic said:

Sorry to hear about that.....been there done that

back in the day I had someone burn me on a loan.......said they never got anything and next thing you know they were selling slings

Click to expand...

im interested to know what action you took, did you leave a bad review? One thing I would get stuck on is, do I have enough proof to prove that the other party screwed me over.

I try to sell most of my MM's or trade them off. I personally am not a huge fan of loans just because it can sometimes take forever to see a return on your loans or their female can molt out and then your out those slings and the money that you spent on shipping. I don't mind having someone loan me a male and I try to keep them updated and informed as much as possible but you also have to think that you might go two months before you even know if your female is gravid so during that time there's not really much you can tell that person. I prefer to just try and find a male for sale and buy it outright that way if anything goes wrong I'm only hurting my own wallet.

Sometimes its worth it though. A while back i received a mature male P. irminia on loan from a member. I produced 220 slings, and have 60 more in the incubator. So he definitely will be getting hooked up well for his one mature male.

gizmosdeath said:

I personally am not a huge fan of loans just because it can sometimes take forever to see a return on your loans

Click to expand...

I would add something here, but catfishrod already covered everything perfectly. Soooooo... I will just emphatically concur to both of his previous posts!

Wow. I'm amazed that people are so lax about sending an animal that they have spent so much money and time to take care of, to someone they have never met and only talked to in an e-mail. No way I'm sending one of my animals to some stranger without copies of a valid drivers license and a current bill, such as electricity or water with the same address. Then I would need them to sign a legal contract specifically describing the arrangement and time frame this would happen. Why are there not more posts with members blasting these people on the forum? Other members need to know who these people are so they don't have to go thru all this trouble.

Mariner1 said:

Wow. I'm amazed that people are so lax about sending an animal that they have spent so much money and time to take care of, to someone they have never met and only talked to in an e-mail. No way I'm sending one of my animals to some stranger without copies of a valid drivers license and a current bill, such as electricity or water with the same address.

Click to expand...

A mature male's time remaining is short. So you can hold onto it for the last 6 months, year, and watch it die in vain, or you can take the chance and attempt to give it a chance to procreate. If you loose out completely, its not like its female and you are losing out on the next 10+ years, you are basically just missing out on being able to watch it die, the one part of the t's life I would rather not have to see...lol. I am actually surprised that people want their MM's back for the final weeks. Unless you are sending him to another female it seems like undue stress to an animal already on its last leg, so to speak.

I agree though, I would get as much info as possible, full names, phone numbers, addresses, etc.

Mariner1 said:

Wow. I'm amazed that people are so lax about sending an animal that they have spent so much money and time to take care of, to someone they have never met and only talked to in an e-mail. No way I'm sending one of my animals to some stranger without copies of a valid drivers license and a current bill, such as electricity or water with the same address. Then I would need them to sign a legal contract specifically describing the arrangement and time frame this would happen. Why are there not more posts with members blasting these people on the forum? Other members need to know who these people are so they don't have to go thru all this trouble.

Click to expand...

I think that would kind of take away from the fact that this is a hobby to most of us and not a business. Yeah, it's really nice to be able to get money out of a group of slings to further your collection and sure there are many on here that have made a great career out of something that they love doing but if people were taking things that far it would kind of shoot down the hobby aspect of collecting T's. Personally, if I was to send off a male for a loan I wouldn't have very high hopes of getting it back and I would also keep in mind that not every single person you meet is going to be honorable but that's why we have the reviews section. I think that out of all my dealings on AB so far they have all been positive and I haven't had one person that has screwed me over and I would hope that I have also been fair in my dealings with others.

Mariner1 said:

Wow. I'm amazed that people are so lax about sending an animal that they have spent so much money and time to take care of, to someone they have never met and only talked to in an e-mail. No way I'm sending one of my animals to some stranger without copies of a valid drivers license and a current bill, such as electricity or water with the same address. Then I would need them to sign a legal contract specifically describing the arrangement and time frame this would happen. Why are there not more posts with members blasting these people on the forum? Other members need to know who these people are so they don't have to go thru all this trouble.

Click to expand...

There's a review section lower on the forum list.

Getting a copy of a valid license and another form of cross ID and signing a legal binding contract is a bit of an extreme route to take..... Most MM go for around £20-30. Personally I wouldn't deal with someone requesting all of those items, not because I'm planning on conning them, more so that it really isn't worth all that hassle.

Yep I have sent many a MM's off to meet there dream girls, only to have one time success in recieving some slings ,would I send some more off yes that is there role in captivity and the wild go off and die but have fun a doing it .I dont like watching a old male shrivel up and die for nothing.but I do want communcation on how a pairing went or atleast what happened