Second opinion from breeders pls. P. subfusca HL suspect male

Keith B · Apr 6, 2014

I've suspected this T to be male for awhile now by the ventral aspect, but it twisted the molt so badly that I couldn't salvage it. Apologies cause I tried hard with the camera but I just couldn't get the pics to come out 100% clear, but they may be clear enough. Just looking for some other opinions from those who are used to ventral sexing a lot of Poecilotheria. Thanks for your input

Also not everybody looks at the sexing threads often, and I need some quicker answers, cause this was sold to me as sexed, hence why I put it here.

viper69 · Apr 6, 2014

On male Rufis, they have a raised "dot" between the anterior book lungs as early as 1.75-2" DLS. If that's true for all Poki, yours appears to be female, but it's hard to say as the images are a bit blurry. I'm no expert!

Keith B · Apr 6, 2014

I've seen ones with raised dots being sexed as male which is why I'm looking for answers. Most pics I've seen the dots are males and long white slits from lung to lung are females. It looks male to me, but I have little experience sexing pokies at this time. They don't appear as obvious as new world's to me

viper69 · Apr 7, 2014

Where's your dot then, I couldnt make it out, hence my choice for female.

Keith B · Apr 7, 2014

The infernal camera flash is reflecting off of it and obscuring it lol.. the line between the anterior lungs is tight and flat, with a small white dot in the middle, seemingly surrounded by a darker patch of setae, leading me to think that its male. I'll try to get more pictures later if need be, but it's hiding now.

viper69 · Apr 7, 2014

To help you help US hehe, the best way I've found is to use a flashlight with some off target illumination, and take a pic w/out flash if you are having glare issues. Of course, you know Keith, just man-up and pick up that slow, docile T and take a pic

A dot? MALE. On my male Lv (mind you different color contrast), I can spot it a mile away when they are really young.

LordWaffle · Apr 7, 2014

Yeah, flip the bugger over in your hand and don't be afraid of those fangs. I saw it on YouTube. It's totally cool.

Exoskeleton Invertebrates · Apr 7, 2014

Keith B said:
I've suspected this T to be male for awhile now by the ventral aspect, but it twisted the molt so badly that I couldn't salvage it. Apologies cause I tried hard with the camera but I just couldn't get the pics to come out 100% clear, but they may be clear enough. Just looking for some other opinions from those who are used to ventral sexing a lot of Poecilotheria. Thanks for your input Also not everybody looks at the sexing threads often, and I need some quicker answers, cause this was sold to me as sexed, hence why I put it here.

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It is a male. What size is he?

-J

Keith B · Apr 7, 2014

jose said:
It is a male. What size is he?

-J

Thanks jose. I was pretty sure since it was a molt smaller but my pokie sexing experience is extremely limited. He's about 3" dls, a little under 2 when all scrunched up lol. Plenty large enough to sex ventrally I would think

Exoskeleton Invertebrates · Apr 7, 2014

Keith B said:
Thanks jose. I was pretty sure since it was a molt smaller but my pokie sexing experience is extremely limited. He's about 3" dls, a little under 2 when all scrunched up lol. Plenty large enough to sex ventrally I would think

At 3" inches it is a definitely male. And it is true females will not have the "Dot".

-J

Keith B · Apr 7, 2014

Thanks. By the dot though I didn't mean it in the typical sense of the usual darker dot of denser setae. On the Pokie it's like a little raised white dot just above the line between the anterior lungs in the center, but the setae around it seem denser, like the dot on some other species, which I take it is the Pokie male appearance?

Exoskeleton Invertebrates · Apr 7, 2014

Keith B said:
Thanks. By the dot though I didn't mean it in the typical sense of the usual darker dot of denser setae. On the Pokie it's like a little raised white dot just above the line between the anterior lungs in the center, but the setae around it seem denser, like the dot on some other species, which I take it is the Pokie male appearance?

Yes on male pokies is a lighter white dot. Some terrestrial will have a darker black dot like the Homoeomma sp. "Blue".
If your subfusca was a female it will be one solid color that will completely cover the section of the male dot. Specially at 3" inches. I hope I made sense what I just wrote. Pokies have been one of my favorite to ventral sex. Quite honestly I try not to ventral sex pokies no less than two inches. Some people may do it but I won't chance it any less than two inches.

-J

Keith B · Apr 8, 2014

jose said:
Yes on male pokies is a lighter white dot. Some terrestrial will have a darker black dot like the Homoeomma sp. "Blue".
If your subfusca was a female it will be one solid color that will completely cover the section of the male dot. Specially at 3" inches. I hope I made sense what I just wrote. Pokies have been one of my favorite to ventral sex. Quite honestly I try not to ventral sex pokies no less than two inches. Some people may do it but I won't chance it any less than two inches.

-J

Yeah that's what I suspected. I'm all good when it comes to sexing most other tarantulas, but with the Pokies I went back and looked at a lot of pictures to get the idea. I was pretty sure I had the right idea, and I figured I had it pegged for a male when it was a molt smaller, but waited for the molt, which turned out to be a mess. Thanks so much for the extra opinion, cause I wanted to be absolutely sure. He was sold to me as female, and as soon as I got home and housed him I thought he was male. Now it's complicated cause I have to speak with the vendor, who's very nice (I kind of got the impression he didn't breed this spider, but got it from somebody else.), and guaranteed I could be refunded or whatever if it turned out male. The complicated part is I love this T, and want to keep it, so I'll just see how it works out when we talk. Thanks again

Exoskeleton Invertebrates · Apr 8, 2014

Keith B said:
Yeah that's what I suspected. I'm all good when it comes to sexing most other tarantulas, but with the Pokies I went back and looked at a lot of pictures to get the idea. I was pretty sure I had the right idea, and I figured I had it pegged for a male when it was a molt smaller, but waited for the molt, which turned out to be a mess. Thanks so much for the extra opinion, cause I wanted to be absolutely sure. He was sold to me as female, and as soon as I got home and housed him I thought he was male. Now it's complicated cause I have to speak with the vendor, who's very nice (I kind of got the impression he didn't breed this spider, but got it from somebody else.), and guaranteed I could be refunded or whatever if it turned out male. The complicated part is I love this T, and want to keep it, so I'll just see how it works out when we talk. Thanks again

If you want to be sure, going by the molt you would have to wait at least when he is 4" inches to know for sure that your subfusca is a male, and that's if you get a good molt out of your subfusca. The spermathecae on a 4" inch female from what I recall is still pretty small.
Going back to the vendor that is always hard to do, but you have to let the vendor know that it is looking male. He or she will probably would want a molt which it will still take some time. But I can't speak for that person what he or she will ask for or do for you!
My belief looking at the ventral shot of your spider is a male someone else might tell you different.

-J

viper69 · Apr 8, 2014

Of course you could have used the famous Leggy Theorem

Keith B · Apr 8, 2014

Lol! like that would work with pokies. They're all legs regardless.

viper69 · Apr 8, 2014

Keith B said:
Lol! like that would work with pokies. They're all legs regardless.

Do you challenge the Leggy Theorem Master? How insulting! Oh I know they are, that's why I dropped that in here

On the sexing forum, I don't blame you for putting it in here. When I post the sexing pic in the other section I don't get as much as feedback at all. It's quite discouraging actually.

LordWaffle · Apr 8, 2014

It's easy. ===>O<=== female. ====>o<==== male. See? Leggy.

Exoskeleton Invertebrates · Apr 8, 2014

viper69 said:
Do you challenge the Leggy Theorem Master? How insulting! Oh I know they are, that's why I dropped that in here

On the sexing forum, I don't blame you for putting it in here. When I post the sexing pic in the other section I don't get as much as feedback at all. It's quite discouraging actually.

I have never liked that section myself, I hardly take a look in there.

-J

viper69 · Apr 8, 2014

jose said:
I have never liked that section myself, I hardly take a look in there.

-J

I look at times. The problem is, myself included, is getting good clear pics. However, I always get a faster response when I post a clear pic in the Tarantula Chat forum. In fact, I had a pic posted in the ID forum and it languished for about a month I think w/no response. Plenty of views, but no responses. I dropped it into the TChat forum and a few people answered right away, case closed.

Second opinion from breeders pls. P. subfusca HL suspect male

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