Q: What's scarier than a fast OBT?

A: A slow one!

Today I was doing a little "redecorating" in some of the enclosures (adding more substrate, putting better hides, etc.,) including an adult female OBT. Unlike most of what I've heard and experienced with the other two that I own, rather than making mad dashes and only threatening me when cornered, she pretends to be a pet rock before angrily striking my feeding tongs! It is so difficult to get her to move, all she wants to do is KILL

On another note, I could use some helpful advice as well. I really wanted to fix up her housing today because I'm hoping she has a fair amount of little buns in the oven I paired her last week, and was a little concerned that because she ALWAYS has herself blockaded in her cork hide, I wouldn't know she had laid a sac until I woke up to little brown devils all over the place. Not to mention, she could've used more sub and a little spot cleaning (not much, she is pretty neat). Here are some photos of the remodeled set up:
Sorry for the lousy quality, in the back corner you can see where I put a nice "neat" pile of spaghnum moss in case I needed to up humidity:


The inside of the log is now visible from the side:


I taped black poster board over it so that she wouldn't feel the need to block it out herself, leaving me a convenient window to check for a sac every once in a while:


Here is the pretty girl:


Questions:
1) Once she lays a sac and I remove the water dish (thanks Rick!), should I be keeping her humidity relatively high or just bump it up a tiny bit?

2) When should I pull the sac? I have heard all sorts of reasons to pull it one day or another but is there a species-specific day that I should pull this one? I'd prefer to not have little OBT slings running around in the enclosure but I also prefer to grab around 1i or later if possible.

3) Please share any personal experience you've had breeding these that may come in handy

Thanks everyone!

Don't worry about removing the waterbowl. These spiders lay fixed sacs so they won't be carrying them around dumping them in waterbowls.

Ceratogyrus said:

Don't worry about removing the waterbowl. These spiders lay fixed sacs so they won't be carrying them around dumping them in waterbowls.

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Right. It's only the species with ball sacs that may dump them in their water bowl.

Murinus always seem to make sacs after pairing, and sometimes double clutch a few months later. They're very prolific. She'll usually stay in touch with the sac, often laying or standing on top of it (may massage the eggs too). I'll give them an occasional big, fat female cricket (one at a time), which she'll usually eat. It she don't eat it, take it out so it doesn't annoy her. The slings will emerge as 1st instar (white and slow). I'd leave the mother in until them. Before they shed into 2nd instar take her out so you catch the babies. If you're lucky you can gently pull up the hammock and get them all at once. Then put her back in and give her plenty of food and water to replace what she's lost.

Not 100% true! I had an I. mira pull her sac out of her tunnel, and toss it in the water dish. Only 3 slings out of that sac survived. And the sac had near 50 slings in it .

Ceratogyrus said:

Don't worry about removing the waterbowl. These spiders lay fixed sacs so they won't be carrying them around dumping them in waterbowls.

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catfishrod69 said:

Not 100% true! I had an I. mira pull her sac out of her tunnel, and toss it in the water dish. Only 3 slings out of that sac survived. And the sac had near 50 slings in it .

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I've had a few ball sacs wind up in waterbowls, never a hammock. My experience with hammocks is that they have a better overall survival rate than ball sacs.

Thanks for the great replies everyone! What about humidity? I normally just keep her dry with a water dish. Should I raise it at all while she is "with sac"?

I just bred mine not too long ago and didn't pull the water dish or mess with humidity besides for the occasional overfilling the water dish. I have a set up similar to yours with a little window in the side so I can see whats going on. Just found out the other day that she dropped a second sack for me. I pull my sacks relatively early as I like to have eggs that are close to hatching but haven't so I pulled my OBT sack at 12 days and they hatched a couple days later. My only problem is that I didn't notice a hole in my incubator that was just large enough for second instar slings to escape from. I have a few OBT slings running around my house somewhere lol.

CitizenNumber9 said:

Thanks for the great replies everyone! What about humidity? I normally just keep her dry with a water dish. Should I raise it at all while she is "with sac"?

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Moderate humidity. Too dry or too wet could impact the eggs/slings. You don't want them drying out, or being so moist they attract mites. You've got 30 days from the time they're laid til when they hatch (EWL's) so it isn't that long. When they come out as 1st instar, I'll give them a light mist a couple times a week.

Poec54 said:

Moderate humidity. Too dry or too wet could impact the eggs/slings. You don't want them drying out, or being so moist they attract mites. You've got 30 days from the time they're laid til when they hatch (EWL's) so it isn't that long. When they come out as 1st instar, I'll give them a light mist a couple times a week.

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So with how hot it has been, misting the moss every once in a while should offer just a little more humidity to help the eggs, correct?

---------- Post added 06-21-2014 at 09:48 AM ----------

gizmosdeath said:

I have a few OBT slings running around my house somewhere lol.

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Yikes! I hope you don't have a cat or dog or child as well. P. murinus take no prisoners!

CitizenNumber9 said:

So with how hot it has been, misting the moss every once in a while should offer just a little more humidity to help the eggs, correct?

---------- Post added 06-21-2014 at 09:48 AM ----------


Yikes! I hope you don't have a cat or dog or child as well. P. murinus take no prisoners!

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I don't use moss with adult Pterinochilus, Ceratogyrus, Pelinobius, etc as they're from fairly dry areas. I'll use moss for slings vials/containers when I take them out of the mother's cage (when they're too small for water bowls). The mistings on the nursery silk in the mother's cage are so they can drink, not as much for humidity.

And yes, you don't want murinus loose in your house. The slings are harmless and probably wouldn't last long between dehydration and house spiders. But an adult...

Yeah i couldnt believe a hammock ended up in the water dish. So thats why i always either pull the water dish or let them dry up. Then just moisten the substrate. For sure hammock sacs seem to be way more advanced when it comes to survival rate. I wish either all tarantulas laid hammocks, or i could focus on only tarantulas that lay hammocks.

Poec54 said:

I've had a few ball sacs wind up in waterbowls, never a hammock. My experience with hammocks is that they have a better overall survival rate than ball sacs.

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Poec54 said:

I don't use moss with adult Pterinochilus, Ceratogyrus, Pelinobius, etc as they're from fairly dry areas. I'll use moss for slings vials/containers when I take them out of the mother's cage (when they're too small for water bowls). The mistings on the nursery silk in the mother's cage are so they can drink, not as much for humidity.

And yes, you don't want murinus loose in your house. The slings are harmless and probably wouldn't last long between dehydration and house spiders. But an adult...

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Well then I guess it'll just look pretty in there while it's dry :sarcasm:

Could I separate them at 1i and keep them moist? Or should I just wait until they are 2i?

---------- Post added 06-21-2014 at 10:15 AM ----------

Separate them from each other I mean.

You can seperate them at 1st instar. Hammock slings grow to 1st instar quickly. So i wouldnt doubt if around day 21 they are 1st instar and hatching out. So leaving them together in a incubator, with mom, or seperating is up to you. Personally i would just seperate them, makes it alot easier. And i would pull the sac at 21 days. Better than digging through everything for the slings.

CitizenNumber9 said:

Could I separate them at 1i and keep them moist? Or should I just wait until they are 2i?

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I've done both. It's usually much easier at 1st instar, when they're still slow and tend to stay together.

Thanks guys! 1i it is I'll keep this thread updated and when I stop being lazy, will post the horrendous photos I took of the pairing. I plan on pairing them again, so I'll try and get some better ones as well. Thanks again everyone!

This is off topic, but i can tell you one thing that is alot more scary than a fast obt......

So last night i was doing some feeding and watering. One of my adult female Stromatopelma calceatum were next in line. She is about 6.5", defensive, and kind of spastic. Well i opened her enclosure, gave her a adult male dubia, which she snagged. Then i started to pour a little water into the substrate, and she went nuts, ran up my left arm, and around onto my back. Then she wandered over to my right shoulder. I had no shirt on, so those toe hooks felt like tiny needles, and i felt every one of them as she walked/ran. She finally decided that she wanted to stop moving, inside my right armpit. So there i was. I was considering moving her with the paintbrush, but knowing how defensive this individual one was, i wasnt sure how she would react. So i decided to use the power of wind. I blew on her, and she backed out of my armpit, and was on my back again. My buddy was able to get a cup in front of her, and touch her abdomen with the lid. She walked right into the cup like a doll. I really wanted to get a picture of it. But it would have just looked like a spider in a jungle of hair. So that was definitely a tense 10 minutes for me. I have had mature male and younger calceatum on me before and never really minded. But she is full sized, and has some spunk to her.

Poec54 said:

Moderate humidity. Too dry or too wet could impact the eggs/slings. You don't want them drying out, or being so moist they attract mites. You've got 30 days from the time they're laid til when they hatch (EWL's) so it isn't that long. When they come out as 1st instar, I'll give them a light mist a couple times a week.

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30 days seems like quite a while for this species eggs to hatch. It only took about 15 days from time that the sack was made to EWLs for me. Don't know if conditions affect how fast the eggs develop but I have some moss in with my female on either side of the water dish and I just overfill the water dish on occasion. My timeline looks like this:

Mar. 20th Brought home Female P. Murinus
Mar. 20th bred to mature male at night
Mar. 22nd or 23rd male was eaten.
April 27th Female dropped sack?
May 8th Pulled sack. Rough count of 163 eggs. No black eggs.
May 12th Eggs started hatching into EWLs.
May 21st EWLs started molting into 1st instar
June 7th Slings started molting into 2nd instar
June 20th female dropped another sack.

gizmosdeath said:

30 days seems like quite a while for this species eggs to hatch. It only took about 15 days from time that the sack was made to EWLs for me.

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This varies with temperature.

Q: What's scarier than a fast OBT?

A lost OBT. Next.

As for your breeding question, I always pull the sac when dealing with obt. I give it about 10 days from the time you see the egg sack. Then pull them, there is a possibility of a second sack, which is not a good idea for her health.

It is a mess to wait until the last minute and having 30 slings running around a venom dripping nightmare.

succinct said:

It is a mess to wait until the last minute and having 30 slings running around a venom dripping nightmare.

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You always take the mother out before attempting to catch any of her slings.