Poecilotheria regalis pairing

vinnymc

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So a while back I bought 2 p.regalis slings and now they are both mature a male and a female so I paired them and the started tapping. Now they chilled out and I left the male with her because they are living in the same hide now and the female has no problems with him so should I leave him in there and if so how long?
 

Poec54

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When you leave a Poec male in for more than one night, the risk increases that he'll get killed. Take him out the next morning. He'll have mated during the night, and if they haven't (two horny spiders in a confined space in the dark) it's not going to happen. Females sometimes molt unexpectedly, and off schedule, after pairing and if you left the male in too long and lost him (they lose the sperm pouch in shedding), you don't have him around for a re-pairing.

I'm speaking from personal experience and from some of the people I've sent Poec males to on breeding loans where my males ended up being killed.
 

goodyt

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I have been breeding Poecilotheria but it's too soon for me to have a sac yet. That being said...

It's always a risk for both to left them together. Even a male could eat a female. Personally, I've left my P metallicas together up to a about month. I have multiple mature males and females. So, I remove the MMs for rotation.

As long as I keep dubias with them in their enclosures, I have less fear of canibalization. Just last week, I had a female eat TWO mature male dubias while ignoring her suitor. It actually startled the male at first but there's still tapping at night. With this method, no tarantulas have been eaten in the five months that I have been pairing them.


-AJ
 

Poec54

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I've left my P metallicas together up to a about month.
What's going to happen in a month that didn't happen in the first 12 hours they were confined together? Do you think that after a week or two he'll suddenly start copulating, when he hadn't done it previously? Even under supervised conditions, an occasional Poec male will get killed. That happens with tarantulas. But leaving males in for weeks or months achieves no purpose; basically he's just a future meal kept fresh in the meantime. There's better food for females than that. In nature, he'd get the message when he wore out his welcome and leave, but in captivity he's trapped and can't escape a female chasing him down. Too many Poec males die this way, and certainly too many of mine out on breeding loans.
 

goodyt

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No one has died and I have ensured time for the males to continue making more sperm webs and creating more pairing with the female. My hypothesis is that She will have the highest amount of the freshest sperm to utilize when she drops her eggs then.

I am testing how far this can go, yes. But so far, I'm successful and am not afraid to report these findings.

If a male is eaten, it does happen in the wild and probably can offer lots of nutrition for the upcoming eggsac. But, as I stated, no canibalization has occured.




-AJ
 

Poec54

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My hypothesis is that She will have the highest amount of the freshest sperm to utilize when she drops her eggs then.
She also has the old sperm too, which according to your theory wouldn't be as good; it's also going to get on the eggs, maybe fertilize some before the new sperm does. How much sperm do you think a pouch is intended to hold? Gallons? I recently was surprised by 2 normal-sized sacs from females that were paired up over a year ago: a C darlingi and an A ezendami, each paired up one time. That sperm obviously 'kept' just fine. The other darlingi and ezendami I paired up at the same time laid sacs last summer and the females have since molted. From what I've seen, the repeated pairings (ad nauseum) approach seems to be anxious breeders getting themselves worked up over getting a sac of a desired species, and do everything they can think of to make it happen, whether useful or not. In addition to numerous and tedious pairings, I suspect the use of rabbit's feet, wee gee boards, and wearing their lucky underwear also may play a part in the process. Who knows what may work, huh?
 
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goodyt

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You're entitled to your opinion about my anxieties.

Personally, I would rather let them live together for awhile than stress out a male by moving him back and forth for a single forced encounter. As long as I see no aggression between a pair, I have no reason to stop my breeding method.




-AJ
 

Poec54

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You're entitled to your opinion about my anxieties.

Personally, I would rather let them live together for awhile than stress out a male by moving him back and forth for a single forced encounter. As long as I see no aggression between a pair, I have no reason to stop my breeding method.
I have to think that being moved is a lot less stress then being trapped in a cage with a female hunting him down and ripping him apart. If a male's in there for days or weeks, odds are pretty slim you're going to see a problem in time to do anything about it. You don't usually see aggression with extended pairings, until you see the female eating something that has long legs sticking out.

Since females in captivity all-too-often have a habit of molting (on or off schedule) after mating, it can greatly increase the odds of getting a sac if you still have the male left alive from the previous encounter. In captivity, males and females cycle and mature based on the artificial conditions and prey we give them, and aren't always in synch with each other, like they would be in the wild. Squandering males during extended pairings often means you have no male if a female sheds unexpectedly, and that means no slings.

Example: I paired up a LV female in the fall, she shed several months later. The male was still alive, and I re-paired them in the spring. In each case it was one night only (took him out in the morning). I got a good sac in the summer and she double-clutched later that year (and with 'old' sperm, imagine that!), a total of 250 slings between the two sacs. Had I used the patented 'indefinite pairing' method, I'd have provided the female with a nice meal the first time around, and wound up with no sacs at all. If this sounds appealing to anyone, go for it.
 

goodyt

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does this male look stressed to you?


-AJ

---------- Post added 06-30-2014 at 01:05 PM ----------

My MM of nearly 5 months has lived the majority of his mature life in the company of a female and his brother who became a MM last month is doing the same. I am working with five mature females that will either have a chance to meet them or another younger male when they all mature.

I know I'm lucky to have 14 of this species. This makes it easier for me to not need to be so conservative with my experiments. I also encourage anyone who is really considering breeding to also have large collections of their chosen species to pair with as many bloodlines as possible.


-AJ
 

Poec54

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does this male look stressed to you?
Not a fair question. Could be calm-before-the storm at any point. They usually don't look stressed, until a few seconds before the female goes after them. And although not a common occurrence, a male Poec will sometimes kill a female (a guy here lost a regalis that way, during an extended pairing).

Keeping this is perspective from an advice point-of-view, the average person here doesn't have 14 of any species of Poec, especially metallica, so what you do, and risk, is not what they should be doing. For them it's usually just one adult male. When he's gone, so are their chances for a sac.
 

goodyt

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I am recommending that anyone have a lot of a species if they want to do breeding on their terms without this worry of losing the only chance they have with one tarantula. P mets are my thing.


Even if my image is not fair, my short record is: no canibalizations and males that are comfortable enough to build more sperm webs in the presence of their mates.

I've seen your statement before about how a male can eat a female. Yes, if you can't risk it, don't do it. But it's better to put yourself in a place where you have more flexibility with your breeding group by having many of one species.



-AJ
 

advan

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I am recommending that anyone have a lot of a species if they want to do breeding on their terms without this worry of losing the only chance they have with one tarantula. P mets are my thing.


Even if my image is not fair, my short record is: no canibalizations and males that are comfortable enough to build more sperm webs in the presence of their mates.

I've seen your statement before about how a male can eat a female. Yes, if you can't risk it, don't do it. But it's better to put yourself in a place where you have more flexibility with your breeding group by having many of one species.



-AJ
I have had little issues with leaving male Poecilotheria in with females for an extent of time but here is always an exception. My female P. regalis killed Rick's male the night they were put together. The male from her first sac was almost lunch as well. There will be girls who will not tolerate males and there will be girls that will. Rick is just taking the safe side, which is not a bad thing.

AJ how many theraphosids have you successfully hatched?

P.S. "I have been breeding Poecilotheria" is giving the assumption you have already been successful. Pairing or mating would be a better term to use.
 

goodyt

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Advan: Thank you for the validation. Have you worked with pairing both species mentioned and have you noticed that regalis is more aggressive?

This is not an discussion of hatching. I will try to remember to use "pairing" or "mating" going forward instead of "breeding" for now.


-AJ
 

Poec54

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Rick is just taking the safe side, which is not a bad thing.
I've lost several males in about 30 Poec pairings during the last 2 years. Unfortunately almost every Poec male I've loaned out has been killed (which has been loans to a number of members, so it's not one person in particular). Seems like a lot of carnage, and that some of it could have been avoided since my losses aren't nearly that high. I think multiple pairings, or one extended pairing, has been involved in most of those. Seems like the thing-to-do with Poecs. And very few of those have resulted in fertile sacs, in spite of the 'good meal' my males provided. I can't see that multiple/extended pairings do anything beyond what a one night pairing does.
 
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Pociemon

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I take out the poec males after 2 or 3 days and i very rarely loose any males. These one day visits i use when a ready male has not seen a female for some time, it helps keep him stimulated or what you call it. Otherwise many males just dies if they are not near any female. Wich method you use is up to you, i think 1 day visits is just fine also, just throw him in with the female at the evening.
 
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