English walnuts?

remainpositive · Jul 21, 2014

Out of the multitude of scorpions I've kept in my lifetime I've only had two scorpions go belly-up (dead) at an early age they were both housed on crushed english walnut shell "sand" bedding but since then, I've stopped using it and went to traditional sand and clay and haven't had any problems. makes me wonder if the bedding is toxic? They all were doing great, no heat stress, irregular feeding, and enough hides. Anyone had any experience with this bedding? (one was A. Australis, and the other was H. Spinigerus)

Python · Jul 21, 2014

I don't know about the bedding but around here people take a sack full of walnut shells and drag them around their ponds to kill all the fish so they can stock the pond with what they want. I don't know if it works but lots of people do it and if it does work then it sounds pretty toxic. That said, I'm sure if it was toxic there would have been some sort of outcry by now. Even if the company that produces it thinks it's cool to kill off the customer base I'm sure enough hobbyists would have had enough problems that there would be forum wide warnings. Long story short, I think it's probably pretty safe

Patcho · Jul 21, 2014

The best sand to use is the 50lb bags of it at home depot or similar stores. Under $5. Don't waste your money on that walnut or reptisand crap.

ecooper · Jul 21, 2014

This is really interesting...although I'm sorry about the scorpions. The roots of black walnut trees produce a toxic substance called juglone which kills or stunts other plants that try to grow under the tree. I remember this because we synthesized juglone in my university chemistry class (decades ago). Apparently it is also toxic to insects too.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juglone

According to this site horses may be affected by black walnut chips or sawdust when they are used for bedding material: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1148.html. This site also notes that other types of walnut trees are sometimes grafted onto black walnut rootstocks.

You could be on to something...

EC

pyro fiend · Jul 22, 2014

Patcho said:
The best sand to use is the 50lb bags of it at home depot or similar stores. Under $5. Don't waste your money on that walnut or reptisand crap.

being a fish keeper and not having sand dwelling scorps i still have to agree with this as i keep natural planted fish tanks with sand.. the crud in small 30lb containers cant go toe to toe with whats in the 50lb be sure if you find a sack thats broke to analyze the sand tho. some have high rock contents. [theres a $20 bag at a store here thats like 50% fish gravel] and grab what you like the best or need.

---------- Post added 07-22-2014 at 03:31 AM ----------

ecooper said:
This is really interesting...although I'm sorry about the scorpions. The roots of black walnut trees produce a toxic substance called juglone which kills or stunts other plants that try to grow under the tree. I remember this because we synthesized juglone in my university chemistry class (decades ago). Apparently it is also toxic to insects too.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juglone

According to this site horses may be affected by black walnut chips or sawdust when they are used for bedding material: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1148.html. This site also notes that other types of walnut trees are sometimes grafted onto black walnut rootstocks.

You could be on to something...

EC

+1 knew there was something to this i remembered reading it somewhere. thats y i only use oak in my tanks

remainpositive · Jul 22, 2014

But if so, why would they? Cheaper alternative? Or they just want to be the worlds worst bedding manufacturer? I guess I learned to stay with the old methods the hard way.

pyro fiend · Jul 22, 2014

remainpositive said:
But if so, why would they? Cheaper alternative? Or they just want to be the worlds worst bedding manufacturer? I guess I learned to stay with the old methods the hard way.

How many times do we see Ts scorps and snakes on pine bedding tho? thats no goid for them xD iv seen "pet insect safe bug spray" haha people will buy it chaulk deaths uo fir nature not them so they never think.. *shrug*

remainpositive · Jul 22, 2014

pyro fiend said:
How many times do we see Ts scorps and snakes on pine bedding tho? thats no goid for them xD iv seen "pet insect safe bug spray" haha people will buy it chaulk deaths uo fir nature not them so they never think.. *shrug*

I actually still see some cedar bedding (rarely) a certain petstores, maybe the substrate got onto the prey item and he couldn't digest it? I still have a huge bag of it sad to see I wasted my money.

The Snark · Jul 22, 2014

I read about this many moons ago. People having anaphylactic reactions after eating walnuts attributes to the juglone. It certainly shouldn't be considered a benign substance.

scorpionchaos · Jul 23, 2014

I keep a few snakes on this stuff (with great success) but they are not scorpions... I thought that tannins would come into play for the water fish story... I could be very wrong but I think it increases the acidity in the water (making it tea colored) and hard to survive in with the exception of a couple of tetra species like the cardinal who can handle extremely acidic water.

remainpositive · Jul 24, 2014

scorpionchaos said:
I keep a few snakes on this stuff (with great success) but they are not scorpions... I thought that tannins would come into play for the water fish story... I could be very wrong but I think it increases the acidity in the water (making it tea colored) and hard to survive in with the exception of a couple of tetra species like the cardinal who can handle extremely acidic water.

I've never put water in either of their enclosure due to them being a desert scorpion and can be prone to mycosis, it makes me curious how they went belly-up with no warning, they weren't even in pre molt so they couldn't have had a failed molt. Maybe i'm just in denial, one was a hector morph (A. australis) that I've been wanting for years and I got attached pretty quickly. Well, if anyone has any insight or experience feel free to post! :biggrin:

English walnuts?

remainpositive

Arachnosquire

Python

Arachnolord

Patcho

Arachnosquire

ecooper

Arachnoknight

pyro fiend

Arachnoprince

remainpositive

Arachnosquire

pyro fiend

Arachnoprince

remainpositive

Arachnosquire

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods

scorpionchaos

Arachnosquire

remainpositive

Arachnosquire