Aggression vs. Feeding response

Ok so I've fallen hard for tarantulas quickly. And I went from 1 to 7 in 8 weeks. :/

But it all started with my rose hair "Dee". Whom I suppose is my favorite. She's my only T with a name and Is very dear to me. A few weeks ago after I impulsively bought 2 juvenile L.P.s that are already the same size as her I started to think I went overboard and should get rid of a tarantula.

My friend offered to take Dee to breed her. And I just couldn't let her go, even though her and I have a somewhat troubled relationship these days. And here comes my question now.

At first Dee was a very calm spider and was docile as can be. Then in a span of 6 weeks I rehoused her twice. Poor girl was my first T and bore the brunt of my rookie mistakes and took a LOT of crap from me. Well upon her 2nd 're housing she took a fall and turned her cranky switch on. Since then she has not been a nice spider at all. Which saddens me. Although I decided a while back not to handle the tarantulas anymore, I still don't want them to be angry lol. But I felt like a calm rose hair was just a ticking time bomb and I was going to have this moment.

Well lately Dee has taken to venturing beyond her log and out to her water dish. Whcih she has every right too. But I had to change her water dish. and knowing she's a grumpy spider now I didn't really feel like getting my fingers chomped. So I open the lid of her enclosure to which she raised one leg and both of her pedipalps, and stayed in that position. but it didn't quite look like a threat posture just like she was stuck in a flinch. So I decided to use the tongs to test the ground near her to see how she'd react.

She quickly turned and scurried towards the tongs. I did this 2 more times until I manipulated her away from the water dish to be able to change it.

But she never kicked a hair. She never gave a threat posture (which she did when I pissed her off in that rehousing)
She just quickly leapt at movement near her. Real quick movement and then she sat in whatever pose she stopped in. She didn't go back and attack when I changed her dish and when I filled it. And now she returned to standing up and just chilling in her spot.

So anyways long story, is this My Rosie being grumpy and mean? Or just thinking food is nearby?

I've seen some truly evil rose hair videos, and I've never quite been scared of Dee, but properly apprehensive of her when need be. I respect these creatures and am fascinated by them even if part of that is I guess still a little bit of nervousness.

That is a feeding response. I get those all the time if I'm sneaky enough, but they usually show complete disinterest/aversion once they feel it's the hemostat and not some bug.

Cool, I figured it's different than actually aggressive/ defensiveness. She's so eager to eat! My biggest L.P. is scared of super worms and refuses to eat, yet my rose hair is as garbage disposal waiting for leftovers! I'm actually trying to cut down on her food intake. I feel like I was overfeeding her at first. Her abdomen grew in the past 2 months to a pretty healthy size. But she's so hungry lol!

She has always gone after the tongs since I brought her home. I just don't want that to be my finger. Especially since she wants to hang out near the dish now.

It's crazy how much personality they have. And I've only seen so little of my Ts!

Here's her setup btw... I don't have much margin for error here but she really doesn't like being in anything much bigger than this.

Any advice to keep from being tagged? I figured I'd just tease her away again if need be, or wait until she's moved. I just don't want to force her anywhere if I don't have to, and I like to perform maintenance on all my Ts at once if possible.

Thanks again guys!

If you are concerned you might have went overboard because of space you may want to check out the cheap 5 shelf units that Target and Walmart sell. It would be a shame if you got rid of a T just to regret it later!
The white ones are a great backdrop for display and really help with lighting, IMO. They're very high on the cubic foot per dollar ratio, lol!
I have three of them side by side now but here's a picture of when I had two.

To avoid getting tagged you should just make it a rule to always use the tongs. 10" or 12" should suffice. I've yet to be bitten thanks to making a point to use the tongs whenever possible. I would have been bitten several times already if I didn't stick to that guideline.

EDIT: Sorry MODs, I had some trouble with the image attachment.

Are those arboreal ages the ones from Jamie's?

Most tarantulas display, what I call, a test-the-waters mode. When they sense there is something afoot, they put themselves into a position to either feed or defend. Many people call it a defense posture, but I don't see it as such. Defense posture is much different, imo. Like Hobo said, once they determine it's not food (or a threat) they typically go on about their spider business.

Get in the habit of always using tongs to reach into any enclosure and it will greatly minimize bite risk.

Thanks guys. Again this is pretty much what I'm doing. I have 12" tongs and I pretty much made her chase them like a cat with a laser pointer to get away from the dish. She just never used to hang out anywhere other than her log.

As for space, I have some. I contemplated getting rid of a T because of $ and fear of my mother killing me. But I have room for the ones I have. And mother be damned these are family now!

Rayenicole said:

To avoid getting tagged you should just make it a rule to always use the tongs.

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+1. Picking up things in the cage with bare fingers is asking to get bitten. Even docile species can have extremely fast and violent feeding responses to suspected prey (like G pulchra, G pulchripes, B smithi, etc).

When I first started in the hobby I was unsure the difference between a feeding response and a threat posture. Once I raised my first OBT it became clear to me the difference though, haha. I have plenty of "nice" species that react first with their belly in mind to forget about poking around with my fingers; tongs (or a paint brush) are the best way to test the waters.

lacrosse5001 said:

Are those arboreal ages the ones from Jamie's?

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Yes, they are.

Poec54 said:

+1. Picking up things in the cage with bare fingers is asking to get bitten. Even docile species can have extremely fast and violent feeding responses to suspected prey (like G pulchra, G pulchripes, B smithi, etc).

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Yeah her waste and food bolus etc I always use tongs... it's just that water dish I need to put my hand in there for. But I was just picking your brains on ways to do so without aggravating her too much and to really make sure I was right about what sort of behavior she was showing.

I would rather not have to touch her physically if need be, although I realize it will be necessary at times with these animals


Also Hobo and Poec, you guys are fantastic at quick informative replies! I love these forums. I like to read read read first, I have about 5 books including 2 versions of TKG, Then I watch videos, then I like to ask you guys for keepers opinions. Then I learn from my own experiences with my little ones.

What fascinating animals.

gobey said:

Yeah her waste and food bolus etc I always use tongs... it's just that water dish I need to put my hand in there for. But I was just picking your brains on ways to do so without aggravating her too much and to really make sure I was right about what sort of behavior she was showing.

I would rather not have to touch her physically if need be, although I realize it will be necessary at times with these animals

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I use plastic soufflé cups for water bowls for adults and juveniles, 1 oz and 3 oz. You can buy them by the sleeve from restaurant supply stores (I buy them by the case) and whenever they get boluses or dead crickets in them I throw them out. I do not want to be saddled with cleaning dozens of nasty water bowls every session.

Actually most of my spiders are OW, which means defensive and very fast, and I NEVER touch them with my fingers. It's never necessary.

It looks like in the first picture that the substrate is too moist for a rosie. That may explain her temperament.

Use the tongs to get the water dish out. Problem solved.

Anansis said:

It looks like in the first picture that the substrate is too moist for a rosie. That may explain her temperament.

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Agree with this. Rosie's like it dry and that might be making her uneasy, contributing to strong defensive behavior.

Anansis said:

It looks like in the first picture that the substrate is too moist for a rosie. That may explain her temperament.

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Zigana said:

Use the tongs to get the water dish out. Problem solved.

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The substrate is bone dry exo terra plantation soil. it's cheaper than eco earth by the brick. She doesn't climb the walls anymore. She's content to sit anywhere in the enclosure. She'll put her legs up in the side like a boss sometimes, but not hanging from it like it's moist.

I think she's just a very greedy hungry spider. I used to test her temperament with my finger when I first got her. Way back when I was an idiot. She's since become much less tolerant to touch, even with tongs or a brush. So I'd rather not. But as I said aside from the time I re housed her and the day after where she was clearly agitated with me, it more seems like she thinks the tongs are food, rather than being defensive.

Either way she isn't calm anymore. ,

As for getting the water dish out with tongs, it's a ceramic water dish with aquarium pebbles in it (to keep crickets from drowning) and is too big and heavy for tongs.

I don't have a problem grabbing the dish usually. It's just that this week she decided she's going to hang out by the pool. :/

you could switch the bowl out for something lighter. there are plenty of options for plastic bowls that would be light enough to lift with tongs.
or you could get bigger tongs. i have a pair of 18" rubber-tipped tongs that i can use to pick up even a good-sized stone water dish with.
and finally, you can get a turkey baster or one of these to add or change water without having to remove the bowl. some T's are too dirty with their water bowls for that, but many of my T's leave the bowls in clean enough condition that i can just add some water most of the time and only have to remove the bowls infrequently.

i've read too many bite reports of people who've had a T for years and then one day they stuck their hand in the enclosure and got tagged, even if the T never once showed a response before. so i set up every enclosure in a way to make it unnecessary to put my hand in there.

timisimaginary said:

you could switch the bowl out for something lighter. there are plenty of options for plastic bowls that would be light enough to lift with tongs.
or you could get bigger tongs. i have a pair of 18" rubber-tipped tongs that i can use to pick up even a good-sized stone water dish with.
and finally, you can get a turkey baster or one of these to add or change water without having to remove the bowl. some T's are too dirty with their water bowls for that, but many of my T's leave the bowls in clean enough condition that i can just add some water most of the time and only have to remove the bowls infrequently.

i've read too many bite reports of people who've had a T for years and then one day they stuck their hand in the enclosure and got tagged, even if the T never once showed a response before. so i set up every enclosure in a way to make it unnecessary to put my hand in there.

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Turkey baster! Perfect idea!

And yeah, I do want to avoid that one surprise bite one day. Can't be too cautious. They are wild animals and I am still new. As much as I educate myself I want to always check with the guys here too!