What if we started releasing T's?

YellowBrickRoad · Aug 19, 2014

This question was asked to me today. Although I had plenty to say on why it wouldn't have as big effect as suggested problem of Pythons in the Everglades/Florida, But for the sake of interest I'd love to hear responses on what the community thinks on the matter if:

1. A keeper released 100 T's. (some pairs) but mainly just a collection of many T's?

2. Multiple keepers releasing collections among their respected States including more pairs per collection than if one keeper released?

3. If a total Tarantulapocalypes occurred and 90% or more of tarantula keepers released their T's nationwide?

Cheers!

Ashton · Aug 20, 2014

I don't think many of them would make it depending on location i.e. Brachys in Fla wouldn't make it and Avics in Nevada wouldn't make it. I doubt a Tantulapocalypse wouls be likey even if that may keepers let them go.

awiec · Aug 20, 2014

This is a big bag of worms but it would not be an issue in my state, the winter would kill all of them and really despite the fact there is a small population of B.vegans in florida there are tons of animals that would love a big tasty protein bar. There are enough generalist animals in the U.S. that would take care of a decent number of Ts. There would perhaps be a few hotspots of T populations (like florida) as many tropical Ts are not going to fare too well in a lot of the states. In order for a species to survive it has to find a niche, which I think would be hard for some tarantulas to do.

YellowBrickRoad · Aug 20, 2014

Ashton, agreed. but what if some Tarantulas were released in environments where they could thrive?

awiec · Aug 20, 2014

YellowBrickRoad said:
Ashton, agreed. but what if some Tarantulas were released in environments where they could thrive?

as I said they would be picked off really quick. B.vegans have allegedly been in Florida for decades, they are still confined to a small area that they were released in. The T's we have are very sensitive to pesticides unlike the natives and they would have to find prey to sustain them.

YellowBrickRoad · Aug 20, 2014

I agree with much of what you have said, as a matter of fact I'm chuckling now because I responded the same way. But, as you may know there are many burrowing T's out there, and all one T has to do is dig several inches down and they are in dormant temperature. Knowing this, some species of T's could very well live in MI. For how long is unknown but the potential to live without freezing is a possibility too.

Twentytwenty · Aug 20, 2014

If tarantulas (or any tropical/desert animal) were released in much of the U.S they;d just die off when winter comes. Some places might be able to support some species, but I don't know. Overall, animals that aren't hardy or don't hibernate/lay dormant will never be a problem for much of the world.

YellowBrickRoad · Aug 20, 2014

Might I add that this question was brought up by someone who really cares about what happens to animals and how they are treated/imported from their native countries to end up living captive lives where-as otherwise they'd be living 'happy' lives in their native lands. It surely brings about the question when thinking about what happens when people decide they don't want their animals anymore? what becomes of them then? where do they go? do they have a chance to live? and why take them from their habitats if they could potentially cause a problem to others.. hypothetically speaking.

Twentytwenty · Aug 20, 2014

YellowBrickRoad said:
Might I add that this question was brought up by someone who really cares about what happens to animals and how they are treated/imported from their native countries to end up living captive lives where-as otherwise they'd be living 'happy' lives in their native lands. It surely brings about the question when thinking about what happens when people decide they don't want their animals anymore? what becomes of them then? where do they go? do they have a chance to live? and why take them from their habitats if they could potentially cause a problem to others.. hypothetically speaking.

I don't support wild caught animals (obviously some need to be caught at first to start captive breeding), many times they are treated poorly and arrive unhealthy or dead. I don't really know how many animals live "happy lives" in their native habitats, many are starved for food and are constantly stressed from predators. Captive animals usually live longer, and if kept properly aren't malnourished or sick. When people decide they don't want their animals anymore they get sold to pet stores or sold on a website like Craigslist.com. Assuming they get sold to a good place then yes they live. I do know of many animals that get released because people get bored or they get too big, mainly red-eared slider turtles. They are pretty much in every pet store and every pond natural or man-made. They are not a native species and are a problem because they lay way more eggs than natives. These turtles seem to live fine, but I'm sure there are strange animals that have been released and died in the wild. Some non-native species can be huge problems like the Burmese pythons.
It ultimately comes down to people being responsible and not stupid. Which is too hard for most of them. Buy captive-bred from a responsible shop/person, take proper care, and look into the animal before you get it. If you buy a baby snake because you think its cute, you better be ready for a 16 foot monster. And don't release random animals, ugh, it can only be detrimental to the animal or the ecosystem.

telepatella · Aug 20, 2014

To answer your question, nothing good would come of it.

awiec · Aug 20, 2014

YellowBrickRoad said:
I agree with much of what you have said, as a matter of fact I'm chuckling now because I responded the same way. But, as you may know there are many burrowing T's out there, and all one T has to do is dig several inches down and they are in dormant temperature. Knowing this, some species of T's could very well live in MI. For how long is unknown but the potential to live without freezing is a possibility too.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this but the ground freezes here, to the point of where if you die in November (and October in some cases) you are not going to get buried until spring time.

Smokehound714 · Aug 20, 2014

A few alien t species have actually managed to establish.

Somehow, g. Rosea managed to establish in a portion of texas.

b. Vagans has established in a small area of st lucie Co. in Fla.

I can see arboreal species surviving in coastal southern California, as other spiders like heteropoda have established around Newport harbor (ca)

Coastal regions here are actually frost free, though Santa ana winds can be very harsh.

brachies and grammies would do quite well in our chaparral and desert habitats, though they would have to compete with our aphonopelma species.

Well, provided they survive the myriad onslaught of pepsis wasps. Couldn't see any tarantula establishing on its own, I'm sure the b vagans population was purposely planted in florida. There's no way they could've established like that on their own :/

tonypace2009 · Aug 20, 2014

It is all ready being done. Some of our native aphonopelma hentzis are being released back into the wild back into their native territories. A member of the boards has dedicated a lot of there time into repopulating this species back into an area that was nearly wiped out. I am not going to put the members name out there without permission. Introducing a non native tarantula into a area could be very bad. For instance fire ants, wild hogs ,Asian carp,pythons all non native species that do more harm than good.

cold blood · Aug 20, 2014

YellowBrickRoad said:
But, as you may know there are many burrowing T's out there, and all one T has to do is dig several inches down and they are in dormant temperature. Knowing this, some species of T's could very well live in MI.

Even the hardiest t would be hard pressed to make it through a week of fall in the north, not a single species would stand even a minimal chance to survive the winter in MI. We get weeks or more where the highs never get above zero, feet of snow and freezing rain. Several inches down wouldn't do them any good....several feet down still wouldn't even be close to safe in the northern climates as the ground is literally frozen, not just the very top layers.

viper69 · Aug 20, 2014

YellowBrickRoad said:
I'd love to hear responses on what the community thinks on the matter if:

1. A keeper released 100 T's. (some pairs) but mainly just a collection of many T's?

2. Multiple keepers releasing collections among their respected States including more pairs per collection than if one keeper released?

3. If a total Tarantulapocalypes occurred and 90% or more of tarantula keepers released their T's nationwide?

Cheers!

My Answers are based on the presumption that people would be releasing non-native species in their localities

1. Stupid idea
2. An even stupider idea
3. The stupidest idea I've heard OR read regarding tarantulas.

---------- Post added 08-19-2014 at 11:37 PM ----------

Ashton said:
I don't think many of them would make it depending on location i.e. Brachys in Fla wouldn't make it and Avics in Nevada wouldn't make it. I doubt a Tantulapocalypse wouls be likey even if that may keepers let them go.

Actually there's a very stable population of B. vagans living quite well in Florida, making dens along the river banks. I saw a nature show maybe 8 years ago on this.

Dark Raptor · Aug 20, 2014

viper69 said:
My Answers are based on the presumption that people would be releasing non-native species in their localities

1. Stupid idea
2. An even stupider idea
3. The stupidest idea I've heard OR read regarding tarantulas.

Also releasing native species is a very stupid idea. This is the best way to destroy genetic variation of local populations.

viper69 · Aug 20, 2014

Dark Raptor said:
Also releasing native species is a very stupid idea. This is the best way to destroy genetic variation of local populations.

I'm not a population genetics scientist, so why would releasing native species into a native population of the same species destroy genetic variation, if anything it sounds like that would increase the local genetic variation of the population? That sounds counter intuitive to me.

ratluvr76 · Aug 20, 2014

viper69 said:
I'm not a population genetics scientist, so why would releasing native species into a native population of the same species destroy genetic variation, if anything it sounds like that would increase the local genetic variation of the population? That sounds counter intuitive to me.

what he said...

Dark Raptor · Aug 20, 2014

My language skills are to weak to make a "scientific" discussion

, but I'll try to explain what I was thinking about.

Every local population have their own, let say, "local" alleles. These specimens are "perfectly" adapted to local environment (biotic and abiotic). When you move "alien" specimens, with new genes, you mix all of them. Some of the old alleles, especially these recessive, can "dissapear" from the population. This population has new genetic stucture... but is it better? Not always... You can also transfer new parasites, pathogens, and of course, it will be the problem for scientists to trace mechanisms of natural migrations.

Storm76 · Aug 20, 2014

A couple things:

1)
Releasing a species into a "viable habitat" that it wasn't home to before, can have a very serious impact on local wildlife in this or the other way. Simple put: Don't.

2)
Releasing a species into a previously (or still sparsely) occupied habitat probably won't help a lot. I just have to think of P. metallica on that note - certain individuals had them collected like crazy (illegally) and brought into the hobby. If there would be an influx of population there suddenly, I assume the same thing would happen within a few years. But more importantly: WIth the continuous destruction of natural habitat, even releasing newly bred spides, wouldn't help as they would face the same difficulties as those wild ones have already.

I wish, there would be some project for this kinda stuff, to re-populate areas and the like, but thanks to the hobby and even those hating them and the additional destruction of habitats - I simply don't see it happening. Bottom line: It's best to preserve those species that are in the hobby for the following generations, because at some point, for some species that's all that's gonna be left of them: Animals kept in enclosures cared for by those of use who appreciate their craftiness, looks, behavior and adaptational skills.

What if we started releasing T's?

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