Paaraphysa sp. "Tiger"

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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She's a beast!

The female that it is in my possession is a beast gave the male no chance at all. Stacked the male instantly with no remorse. The male was freshly matured. Why are females such a beast? Don't they realize that it can be as pleasurable to them as much as for the male? Gee!

 
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Poec54

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The female that it is in my possession is a beast gave the male no chance at all. Stacked the male instantly with no remorse. The male was freshly matured. Why are females such a beast?

I would never pair up tarantulas in a cage that small; the male has no room to maneuver if the female is at all hostile. Also, I fatten up females before introduction, to prevent a feeding response, which looks like may have happened with yours. She'd have to have a noticeably bigger abdomen before I would have tried to pair her up.
 

Nicolas C

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I have the same interrogations as Rick: isn't the enclosure too small for pairing? Besides, isn't it better to leave the female in her accustomed burrow and introduce the male rather than taking both of them out to put them in a new unfamiliar place? It's only questions, I don't have the same amount of experience as you have!
 

Poec54

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I have the same interrogations as Rick: isn't the enclosure too small for pairing? Besides, isn't it better to leave the female in her accustomed burrow and introduce the male rather than taking both of them out to put them in a new unfamiliar place? It's only questions, I don't have the same amount of experience as you have!

I'm not as expert on breeding, but to me that pairing was doomed from the start. Males should have room to get their courtship going and put a (fattened) female into a love trance. There wasn't nearly enough space for that, and as soon as a hungry female felt his movement, it was all over. She probably never knew he was anything but a meal.

Sometimes you can get away with pairing in a small cage with a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, but a lot of times you won't.
 

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Arachnoprince
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Listen guys, pairing can go South/East wether the enclosure is to small, large, well fed or not well fed. The female was well fed I always feed them well before any pairing. Wether bigger enclosure or not I've had females that have charged towards the males and the male not having no response at all. It's like the males where in shock of seeing something charging so quickly. As for myself that's how I felt too.

This is a courtesy photo of Joe Rossi pairing of the same species. The only difference between his and my pairing is yes he had his in a bigger enclosure. But guess what happened a few days later after the pairing? The female died Joe found her "Dead" he can't understand what went wrong.

I had a similar case with the American version chalcodes pairing once found my female dead the next day after they paired, it was really strange.

Here is Joe's pairing and again female died a few days later.




Has anyone seen my Grammostola sp. "Northern Gold" pairing and the females enclosure? The male has had three successful pairing with three females in a small enclosure. Here's the link see post #13 and #14 http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...stola-sp.-quot-Northern-Gold-quot-Mature-Male
 
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just1moreT

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That last pic looks like male was eating her not breeding her lol no wonder she died
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

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I know it looks that way but Joe told me that the pairing was successful and found no trace of bleeding from neither one of them. It is what it is.
 

Poec54

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I know it looks that way but Joe told me that the pairing was successful.

A big part of his successful pairing was having an adequate sized cage. You didn't and lost your male. There's a definite connection. What happened after his paired is another issue. Yours didn't make it past the first hurdle because of the tight cage. From the pic you posted, the female wasn't nearly plump enough for me to have tried to breed, for the exact reason you lost the male. She made a reflex feeding response to him. Sorry dude, but it was a high risk encounter the way it was done. No reason to get defensive, look at it as a learning experience.
 

JoeRossi

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Lol as I stated if there is controversy you will find it banditio LOL......

Since my name was mentioned I will respond:

1st I always find it interesting for individuals to state their opinions on specimens they have not bred and then to tell others how to breed them ....to me its like the old opinions are like a-holes joke where everyone has one and most of them stink :D

Now, although I have not posted a breeding report for some time it certainly does not mean I have not bred many specimens since then and continue to breed. However, I now leave the reports to those who like to show excitement for specimens they have bred even if it has been bred before (this also often aids in helping someone having better results in breeding's) . If or when I get a new species to breed to help others better understand the success or failures so they can duplicate or stay clear of that methodology then I will post. Lately though I have sent many of the new specimens I have out (sold,trade,gave, etc..) in hopes others may have a successful 1st breeding (Big congratulations to the Barnetts on the Oligoxystre bolivianum...beautiful specie). The point to this is "paraphysa sp. tiger", which with the help of Advan's documentation and abstracts on the Euathlus and Paraphysa Revision with Phrixotrichus resurrection (http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...resurrection&p=2274421&viewfull=1#post2274421) and I now term Euthalus sp. Blue Tiger, is a new specie I have been working with.

With that stated, Euthalus sp. blue tiger or Euthalus (blue tiger), the parenthesis only specifying common name in the FS add, definitely has unique breeding worthy of a breeding report. However, I was waiting to see if their is any success and if females will drop a sac. The specimen and pictures there of have been unique in that many of the breeding's have been very different. For example, like the Bumba cabocla (Formely Maraca cabocla on my breeding report) 3 of the females I have seen flipped to their back with the males on top and bred. 2 of the 3 females held on to the male, bred, and then ate them with out releasing as I observed similar with the cabocla Breeding. So although it would appear the Males were in control or as Eric just1morecomment (he has a few of these from me as well) lol alluded to killed her... the reality is she was in control or let him have his way. As stated, the 3rd female was larger then the male, but let him have his way and then after breeding finished she jumped up and went to kill him and I was able to separate. Oddly, the female was found dead the next day, but I have seen spiders die before in weird situations (after a breeding, while holding their sac, when the babies emerged from a sac). All of the specimens I have are always in the open, wander around, have no burrow or hide. From what I have read they wander around in their wild habitat as well.

In addition, I had 4 other breeding's with different females where the males walked into the cage and bred standing up and then walked away with out any aggression from the females at all and probably could have bred on my hand.To me the breeding's do not seem difficult when they are ready. Yet others claim they could not get them to breed, but i still do not have a sac and the one sac I have seen made (Aram or jackthejeweler had a female drop) was eaten shortly days after. I am hoping to see a successful sac of these lovelies soon.

I do like to have room when I am breeding to try and save the males and give them the best possible chance, but in many of the cases there is no chance. Furthermore, each breeding can be unique and different with success in many different ways. I always take the opportunity to learn from others success or failures to try and get as many spiderlings out there as possible. It is so wonderful to see species like hapalopus small and large plentiful in the hobby....big smiles :D
 
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Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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A big part of his successful pairing was having an adequate sized cage. You didn't and lost your male. There's a definite connection. What happened after his paired is another issue. Yours didn't make it past the first hurdle because of the tight cage. From the pic you posted, the female wasn't nearly plump enough for me to have tried to breed, for the exact reason you lost the male. She made a reflex feeding response to him. Sorry dude, but it was a high risk encounter the way it was done. No reason to get defensive, look at it as a learning experience.
As I stated did you see the Grammostola sp. "Northen Gold" pairing? Do you see how small the enclosure is? I've had three successful pairings with this size of enclosure with this species.



How about my Acanthoscurria fracta? Did you know that there have been a couple of people that had no success in the US trying to pair this species in a big enclosure? Male always run away, obviously I felt I had to try something different with species to have some sort of success with the pairings so I left the male with the female in a container that is the same size as the Grammostola sp. "Northern Gold". The only difference is I kept the lid closed with the fracta so the male would not escape and ran off.




And like I said it does not matter of the size of enclosure as I have had tarantulas in big enclosures that have also killed the male with no warning. Another words the male just stood still in dismayed. In addition some of those females were well fed also. It's unpredictable what species you will have success with we can always try to save the male but sometimes females are just to damm quick and get you off guard.

Even experienced breeders have had bad outcome in breeding in large enclosures.

My learning experience is don't give up and hope for a good successful pairing and breeding. And no I'm not offended by your response. Just giving you my personal pairing/breeding experience that I have had.
 
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just1moreT

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Yeah I had MM while back Joe, he was getting some age on him so I put him in with my mature girl one last time , they are such a pain at trying to pair lol ,anyhow I left him with her wether job got done or not I don't know ,couple days later she was having spider dinner :( in this case he had plenty room to stay out of the way lol.
 

Nicolas C

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Fair enough for me. My comment was rather a true question, based on what I've read and not on personal experience, rather than a statement. I find it very interesting to read and understand the way you proceed. Thanks Joe & Jose.


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Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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Hey Rick, here something for you to think about. This photo of my Acanthoscurria fracta was taken 09/30/2014



As you can see she was well fed. On 10/30/ I tried to pair the male with my adult female but the outcome was death to the male. Even though as you can see from the photo above she was well fed. For the mating she was and still is in a big enclosure.

Here we have a successful pairing with the Brachypelma albiceps. As you can see a big enclosure. So I do pair my spiders in big enclosures. Thanks for looking Rick!


 

Poec54

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As I stated did you see the Grammostola sp. "Northen Gold" pairing? Do you see how small the enclosure is? I've had three successful pairings with this size of enclosure with this species.with the fracta so the male would not escape and ran off....And like I said it does not matter of the size of enclosure as I have had tarantulas in big enclosures that have also killed the male with no warning...Even experienced breeders have had bad outcome in breeding in large enclosures.

Breeding tarantulas is often difficult, hence our continued reliance on European experts. That people have successful pairings in small cages is no guarantee that will always be the case, just as a large cage doesn't always ensure success. Some females will kill a male regardless. Some refuse to mate no matter what. We don't know why. There's a lot more to it than that, otherwise Americans would be producing a lot more sacs than they have. But we need to put the odds in our favor, because we don't know all the variables that occur in their native habitats and climates. What we should do is have as many things as we can working for us, not against us.

Successful breeding in small cages may lead some people to make assumptions and take things for granted. They can also pair up females that don't have the weight on them they should. They can get away with that some of the time. You got away with something a few times, and assumed it would always be the case. The lesson to be learned from what happened isn't that cage size doesn't matter, that's an excuse. It's that you need to have as many variables in your favor as possible to have the best odds of getting slings, and while cage size and female weight isn't always necessary, there are times when it may make the difference. If a male doesn't have room to start courtship safely and slowly approach, which yours did not, he may be killed as an unidentified intruder. It won't always be necessary, but for some pairings it will.
 
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Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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Breeding tarantulas is often difficult, hence our continued reliance on European experts. That people have successful pairings in small cages is no guarantee that will always be the case, just as a large cage doesn't always ensure success. Some females will kill a male regardless. Some refuse to mate no matter what. We don't know why. There's a lot more to it than that, otherwise Americans would be producing a lot more sacs than they have. But we need to put the odds in our favor, because we don't know all the variables that occur in their native habitats and climates. What we should do is have as many things as we can working for us, not against us.

Successful breeding in small cages may lead some people to make assumptions and take things for granted. They can also pair up females that don't have the weight on them they should. They can get away with that some of the time. You got away with something a few times, and assumed it would always be the case. The lesson to be learned from what happened isn't that age size doesn't matter, that's an excuse. It's that you need to have as many variables in your favor as possible to have the best odds of getting slings, and while cage size and female weight isn't always necessary, there are times when it may make the difference. If a male doesn't have room to start courtship safely and slowly approach, which yours did not, he may be killed as an unidentified intruder. It won't always be necessary, but for some pairings it will.
We are both in agreement that we don't always know on why a pairing goes South/East/West/North between two tarantulas.
As far as the Europeans you have to remember Rick that they are able to acquire wild caught specimens more than we do here in the US. As we know the US are stricture on acquiring a lot of species that they are able to get from the wild. Wether is legally or illegally. You may say they have more successful pairings but I can only imagine on how many wild caught females are producing sacs in Europe that we don't have here in the US.

We need to give ourself more credit of what we are able to do of what species we are able to acquire under the circumstances that we are in.

Courtship: There are times that tarantulas don't even bother with the courtship they get right down to business, once there business is over they thank each other and say their goodbyes. As you saw from the unsuccessful pairing the male died instantly cause the female charged the male. The male did not even flinch, I don't even think the male knew what hit him it was that quick.

---------- Post added 11-28-2015 at 03:46 PM ----------

Fair enough for me. My comment was rather a true question, based on what I've read and not on personal experience, rather than a statement. I find it very interesting to read and understand the way you proceed. Thanks Joe & Jose.


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No problem!
 
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Poec54

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I don't even think the male knew what hit him it was that quick.

I've had that happen too; it's not limited to small cages. But the more space between them, the better chance he has to start drumming and tapping, to let the female know he's not prey and not a predator. If he can do that, he has a fighting chance. But if he's put in a small cage right there with the female, a reflex reaction on her part ends the whole thing in the blink of an eye. She doesn't even know it was a suitor. That's what all breeders want to avoid.

I'm not trying to be critical, I've made my share of mistakes.
 

Exoskeleton Invertebrates

Arachnoprince
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I've had that happen too; it's not limited to small cages. But the more space between them, the better chance he has to start drumming and tapping, to let the female know he's not prey and not a predator. If he can do that, he has a fighting chance. But if he's put in a small cage right there with the female, a reflex reaction on her part ends the whole thing in the blink of an eye. She doesn't even know it was a suitor. That's what all breeders want to avoid.

I'm not trying to be critical, I've made my share of mistakes.
As I have made mistakes and understand it's not always with every spider I try to pair is in a small cage. I've had certain breeders that had put their females in big enclosures as I have before that the female did not hesitate without warning and kill the male. Regardless the size of the enclosures females are missing out on some good tarantula sex. He he!
 

Poec54

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When I have a female in a smallish cage, I'll put that inside a large empty plastic storage box, and put the male into the big box, and let him walk around, start courtship, and gradually approach the female. Until I see a receptive response from the female, I'm on alert with a pencil and a deli cup. That won't save every male, but it'll save most.
 
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