Petition Against PetSmart

Beatlesdork

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Messages
23
After visiting numerous PetSmarts and observing the awful conditions in which the Ts were in, I decided to create this petition. I have posted about it on other social media but with little progress because of the average person's disinterest in or misinformation of the creatures we know and adore. Please take the time to read, sign, and share this petition in hopes to bring it to attention to the corporation as many voices are louder than one: https://www.change.org/p/petsmart-stop-maltreatment-of-invertebrates#news
 

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pannaking22

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
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Nov 25, 2011
Messages
4,226
While I completely agree that the conditions that they keep their inverts in isn't good, there really isn't anything we can do about it. They are a business and profit comes first. People keep buying their inverts and they'll keep bringing them in. Inverts are there just for a little extra money anyway, so the corporate heads aren't going to give it much thought. PetSmart makes most of their money off of mammals and fish, so inverts aren't really worth it to them. Honestly, it would be best if they just stopped selling them completely.
 

JohnDapiaoen

Arachnobro
Old Timer
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May 8, 2010
Messages
529
My local PetSmarts don't carry T's so I wasn't aware of this issue, not that I'm surprised. I'll sign but I think pannaking22 is right.

-JohnD.
 

Beary Strange

Arachnodemon
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
670
If that's upsetting to you, you really don't want to see the way every single exotic shop in my area keeps their tarantulas...those Ts are living in paradise by comparison. In that much, I understand where you're coming from--it's heartbreaking to see these guys in this situation. The reptiles are just as bad and you'd think that herp hobbyists would have made a fuss a long time ago...who knows, maybe they did.
 

pyro fiend

Arachnoprince
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Dec 29, 2013
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1,216
If that's upsetting to you, you really don't want to see the way every single exotic shop in my area keeps their tarantulas...those Ts are living in paradise by comparison. In that much, I understand where you're coming from--it's heartbreaking to see these guys in this situation. The reptiles are just as bad and you'd think that herp hobbyists would have made a fuss a long time ago...who knows, maybe they did.
we have hah.. i think a few years ago there was also one due to keeping multiple species of constrictors in one enclosure [4ft green tree python, 8ft reticulated, 12ft burmese and a 5 ball plus a ~8ft boa in same 4x4x3 tank] and if im not mistaken they tried to come back with us with "reptiles do not feel emotions or pain as we do, this is perfectly reasonable temporary enclosures for selling animals" and this was a mom and pop shop [they was also suspected of brown boxing animals but no proof as it was employee owned] and the city/state [not sure where] actually favored the shop -.- id imagine theyd say the same about inverts =\
 
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DrJ

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
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Jan 11, 2008
Messages
588
This is every LPS...hence why you should never buy an animal from one. However, I didn't know of any PetSmarts that had Ts...that is interesting.

Pyro, that is horrific. I can't believe that the governmental entity in that area would look at the animal abuse that is occurring and willingly look the other way. But, of course, since they don't understand or want to that exotic animals are animals, too. Makes me sick.
 

pyro fiend

Arachnoprince
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
1,216
This is every LPS...hence why you should never buy an animal from one. However, I didn't know of any PetSmarts that had Ts...that is interesting.

Pyro, that is horrific. I can't believe that the governmental entity in that area would look at the animal abuse that is occurring and willingly look the other way. But, of course, since they don't understand or want to that exotic animals are animals, too. Makes me sick.
pff yea ikr there has been many but this one i remember the most because thats like 35ft of multiple species in a tank. i mean sure it was a tank equivilant to like 350sum gallons but thats horrific.. i feel bad seeing my buddies burms in 8*4*2 enclosures let alone a 4*4*3 but i suppose its possible taking it to a nation wide company might result in a different favor, but how likely is that when most people think a hamster is a dangerous exotic creature [tho hawaii its illegal for decent-ish reasons]


our local petsmart and petco arnt too bad on housing just on care and advise. they only house 1 T per cage and the cage is pretty big [the standard ones around here r three 12x12x12's on top [usualy an a.avic and a fog on top 2]. and bottom 2 shelvs are like 18x12x18 which they keep the torts, snakes and lizards in. some times a rosea goes in the 18*12*18 so quite a fall for them =\
 

Mariner1

Arachnosquire
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Messages
60
The petsmart nearest me sells Ts, Roseas and Avics. Emperor scorpions, Milksnakes, Cornsnakes, Leopard geckos, ball pythons, turtles, bearded dragons, anoles, and several species of chameleons. I have told them not to keep the Ts and scorpions in a KK with sponges and sopping wet substrate. They just don't care.
 

freedumbdclxvi

Arachnoprince
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
1,426
i feel bad seeing my buddies burms in 8*4*2 enclosures
Why? Are there multiple Burms in one enclosure? Because unless the Burm is record size, an 8x4 gives 24' of length to unwind and 32 sq ft, well more than accommodating for a Burm.
 

pyro fiend

Arachnoprince
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Dec 29, 2013
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Why? Are there multiple Burms in one enclosure? Because unless the Burm is record size, an 8x4 gives 24' of length to unwind and 32 sq ft, well more than accommodating for a Burm.
oh i know its a good size for them as they will just find one spot and sit most of the time. but just seems kinda small. when you give a T 3x the legroom even for a pet hole and the rule of thumb for a herp is typically "long enough so 2/3-3/4 his body in length and the rest in with" i mean its not saddening like i wana cry just that when they are sprawled out seems like such little room for as much as they move around when being handled or when allowed to explore :p
 

freedumbdclxvi

Arachnoprince
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May 28, 2012
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1,426
Gotcha. I think most people also take their animals out for s stretch. I kmow I do - but mine haven't hit real size yet. I can't wait. :)
 

pyro fiend

Arachnoprince
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
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Gotcha. I think most people also take their animals out for s stretch. I kmow I do - but mine haven't hit real size yet. I can't wait. :)
he has one whos topping at like 25-27ft shes a captive hatched albino [so rare lol] and shes a puppydog but as you know, its hard to get a measurement as they dont want to stop moving lmao.. when coiled shes about as big as his a truck tire XD but she has her own room shes in a 8x6x7 room built just for her shes always somewhere weird.. shes the exception :p she seems more at home in a tree or in the koi pond then any Eunectes notaeus or Eunectes murinus [the only murinus i work with lol] i know. but yea just seeing how much room theyl use when you let them stretch, which not everyone does this, it seems like its a small space..

just because it fits them and you dont see them active doesnt mean they never are lol. all herps iv owned took full advantage of their enclosures IF given enough hides.. like my rosea they say they are pet rocks but shes never in just 1 spot. she has 3 hides and 2 live plants in a 10g. always somewhere.. same with i have a 2014 P.regius in a 32 qt with like 7 hides for her.. shes never a problem feeder nor is she ever sitting still. so why do we insist a 6-15qt is a must o_O XD i know it works but just seems so small seems more of a human convenience in a way at times but if it works im not complaining XD
 

LordWaffle

Arachnobaron
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
451
My local PetSmarts don't carry T's so I wasn't aware of this issue, not that I'm surprised. I'll sign but I think pannaking22 is right.

-JohnD.
Petsmart doesn't carry them here, either. PetCo does, however. Their conditions are abysmal. Enclosure size is usually adequate, and they at least have good water dishes, but it's always complimented by a quarter inch deep completely dry substrate regardless of species.
 

gypsy cola

Arachnoknight
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
192
The pet smart I go to keeps them in fully set up cages, just over priced. Even seen sun tigers there.
I prefer to go to my LPS where I can get juvenile GBB for 100$ actually just picked
up a maraca cabocla from mine for 20$. Pretty stoked about that.
 

vespers

Arachnodemon
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 18, 2012
Messages
712
Beatlesdork, your petition is just as full of misinformation as you claim the Petsmart pamphlet is.

I mean, look at some of what you wrote:

"To exemplify the extremity of this, the photo of an Avicularia tarantula which is arboral tree/high elevation dwelling spider who needs a vertical tank of multiple feet to sustain"

Huh? They do not need "a vertical tank of multiple feet". That's overkill. Anything beyond 12 inches in height isn't really unnecessary.

"On top of the inadquate enclosure issue, the creatures are housed in dirty, unsuitable conditions. There is substrate and excrement splattered on the sides that consistently remains uncleaned and the water dishes are too small and have bacteria filled sponges left in them."

Avics are messy. They shoot poo all over the place quite frequently. In addition, several T species will bulldoze their enclosures and make a mess of everything, some making "dirt curtains" as well. The sponges aren't great, but the dishes don't appear to be too small either.

You are too new to tarantulas (you've only had a G. rosea for a few months) to be going on such a crusade, IMO. At least those pet store enclosures don't have "jade elephants" along the enclosure wall for the T's to fall on...
 

Tgrip77

Arachnosquire
Joined
Sep 28, 2011
Messages
148
the last petco (not petsmart) i went into had their rosea's in 5 gallon tanks. im not sure if there is much difference between petco and petsmart but im guessing both of them sell WILD caught rosea's / invertebrates...so when you see the rose hairs climbing the walls of its small critter keeper, thats probably because it wants to be free again...not because the enclosure is too small....imo, those 3x5 KK's will be fine for the rosea's in the short amount of time it takes for somebody like you to come along and buy it....because you think its suffering. who knows maybe thats part of their selling tactics...
 
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pyro fiend

Arachnoprince
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Dec 29, 2013
Messages
1,216
the last petco (not petsmart) i went into had their rosea's in 5 gallon tanks. im not sure if there is much difference between petco and petsmart but im guessing both of them sell WILD caught rosea's / invertebrates...so when you see the rose hairs climbing the walls of its small critter keeper, thats probably because it wants to be free again...not because the enclosure is too small....imo, those 3x5 KK's will be fine for the rosea's in the short amount of time it takes for somebody like you to come along and buy it....because you think its suffering. who knows maybe thats part of their selling tactics...
thats exactly right. infact i tried to get some P. emperors after they put the act up. and they told me no more will be brought in due to the import laws now on that particular sp. but tried to suggest roseas for me "as their is still no ban on their imports and are also handleable" but being on the sides i think your right as well also dont help most stores moisten subs. heck maybe thats why bigger towns use kk and 5g for the "poor animal" factor.. probably also why there is like 20 leopard geckos in a 12x18x12 in my petcos of 4-5 sizes.. =\
 

Smokehound714

Arachnoking
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
3,091
Those pics dont look anywhere near 'horrible', honestly I have 'waiting-rooms' for my T's while i prepare their enclosures and they're just like that.

It's when I see a T sitting on astroturf with a dish of water gel that enrages me. It's the smaller stores that are more neglectful and careless.. ..the ones that get caught selling leopard shark pups and end up in prison.
 

Necromion

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
170
one of the hardest issues sometimes when walking into a petsmart or something is that yeah you can get someone who knows how to keep these animals, infact the petsmart in my area had a guy who knew how to keep snakes pretty well, and i actually heard him say "if your trying to figure out how to keep one of these guys, dont look at our cages for ideas, as tthis isnt the best way to do it, infact, its pretty much all wrong." and when asked why he didnt change anything his response was "because corporate makes us keep them like this, and can fine us if we dont keep them like this" was basically his answer, so the problem sometimes isnt the store and its employee's but more the rules and regulations that corporate forces on them.
 

timisimaginary

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
81
yes, i've been told numerous times that the way they have their herp and invert caging set up is determined by corporate standards, not the individual stores. and i've been to enough different petsmarts and petcos to see that they are relatively consistent from one store to the next in their caging. sadly it does little good to argue with the employees since their hands are tied as to how the animals are kept. sadly unless and until someone is able to get them to change things company-wide, it doesn't do much good. the typical T enclosure i see in a petsmart is a KK that's at best maybe 2x the T's DLS (if it's lucky), with a bright light shining down on it, very shallow substrate and of course no hide (don't want to let the T hide where the customer can't see it!). no wonder most of the time the T itself is in the classic tented posture, body on the ground and knees high up in the air trying to shield itself from the light beating down on it. if it's an avic, it might be lucky enough to at least have a fake plant in there, though there's no guarantee, i've seen some avics kept just like the rose hairs in nearly empty KKs. some of the really unlucky speders also have a bunch of crickets crawling around the enclosure too, and sometimes even some dead ones. and for these T's this is a permanent enclosure until it gets sold, how many of these stores do you really think have employees comfortable enough with tarantulas to move them in and out of the KK every night. probably the reason they sometimes have all those crix is because people working at the store are scared of dealing with the T and just dump a bunch of crix in the cage so they don't have to open it again for several weeks. at least the lights go off at night... i hope.

petco is usually better, at least their caging is larger, and not as brightly lit, but often still lacking enough substrate, or a hide.
 
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