How long will an Avicularia Avicularia go without eating?

Hi guys,

I hesitate to post here only because there are tons of threads on these tarantulas (and I've read through a mind-numbing amount over since mid-august when I first signed up here!). I'm hoping some of you may be able to alleviate my concerns.

The short story- My Avicularia avicularia doesn't eat. Its also my first tarantula, but not my first insect or spider. I've had it for a month. How do I determine stress vs premolt? How long will it fast? Would it be likely to molt as we enter the fall and the temperatures drop?


The details-

Cage and conditions:

-It is kept in a 5 gallon fish tank, though horizontally oriented (not vertically as recommended for arboreals)

-Though initially I used a spray bottle to mist the cage, I have discontinued this practice as it seems ineffective.

-Temperature was maintained at 70+ degrees (room temp), though recently temperatures have fallen to no less than 65.

-Humidity WERE maintained at 70+, through the use of two water dishes, and damp substrate underneath dry substrate, layered 2-3 inches of coconut choir. A live plant also initially inhabited the cage.

-The top of the cage is a metal wire screen that slides in and out. Other than some tape to block holes in the screen, it is open and allows much ventilation.

- Last week large number of mites were found on a cricket that had died after only a short time in the cage. Further investigation revealed many book lice as well. These did not seem to inhabit the upper regions of the cage where the tarantula was sitting. The tarantula was clean. Still, resources such as "The Tarantula Keeper's Guide" recommended such a scenario was a bad sign.
-I have since cleared out the cage, bleached it (and rinsed it copiously!), and microwaved the wood decorations for 5 minutes on high each. The substrate was discarded.

-Currently, the cage has a small hollow log and a branch inside, with a thin layer of coconut choir (thin enough you can still see the glass underneath in most places). The two water dishes were returned, though humidity now seems to hover between 65 and 70%. As the fall approaches, the room temperature seems to be falling as well to also in the 65+ range (though it will reach the 70s at times). I am planning to move the tank to my room, which stays warmer most of the day. No more mites, book lice, or flies have been observed.
-A cardboard toilet paper tube has been added.

Tarantula Behavior

-It has a leg span of 3 inches, and the body is over 1 1/4" long. The abdomen does not appear fat, but it doesn't look slim and skinny either. Pictures are attached.

-As mentioned above, it does not seem to want to eat. If it has, I have not found the food bolus. It will not take crickets offered in front of it. Crickets have actually walked on the tarantula and it did not react.

-The tarantula has not webbed much. Small bits of webbing were found on some decorations, but nothing significant (it look more like a cob web, whispy and nearly not there!). However, in the past few days the tarantula climbed into the cardboard tube and has webbed it slightly more than the other decorations, but still not a very significant amount. It is more and more webbed every day, however.

-It appears to be somewhat active. Though in the morning it looks like it is sitting in the same place, I have watched it walk around the cage at night, though very slowly and usually not very far. Lately, it has been staying in one place for much longer periods, though even then, it appears to shift position slightly, usually turning to face a different direction.

-Many times I've found it on the bottom of the tank for a couple days, which I understand is not a happy place for an Avic.

-It allows me to touch it, and will stretch its legs out if stroked lightly. I find this interesting, since I would have expected the tarantula to move away. (at the time, it was sitting with some of its legs on a water dish that I needed to empty and change. It would not move or let go!). True to the claims, this appears to be a VERY docile tarantula!

- That said, it will not stay on my hand for any length of time (frustrating when I am trying to move it). It seems to be able to sense that my hand is not a "normal" surface and will maneuver around it. If it does sit on me, it will do so for only a moment before attempting to scoot quickly to another decoration in the cage.

-It does not appear worn out or sick. When I had the tarantula out of its tank to clean it, I inspected it with a powerful magnifying lens, and observed no signs of pests or sickness, as outlined in "The Taratula Keeper's Guide".


This is its appearance as of 9/20.

Thank you for your assistance!

Chris

It'll eat when it decides to eat. There is no way at all to determine this. If it's in premolt, it could be several more months.

Sometimes they just won't eat. In your case though it seems more like pre-molt. Also if you got your T from a pet store it probably isn't a true Avicularia avicularia, but I'm not an avic expert so who knows, yours might be. Make sure the tank has lots of ventilation as well. Good luck, Bryce.

It doesn't have a fat abdomen, so it probably isn't premolt. It should be eating. The proper set up for Avics is dry substrate and a water bowl, with cross ventilation. I don't like screen tops as cold and hot drafts can blow in them, plus they're more susceptible to fumes and smoke. The wood looks good, but it should have some plastic plants so it's not so exposed, that also encourages spinning.

Why are you handling it? That adds to it's stress It needs to adjust to it's new surroundings and Godzilla keeps picking it up.

I have an avic I purchased about 2 months ago. She had a completely bald abdomen and a large dark spot as well. I put her in a small standard arboreal setup and she stayed pretty much the same. Didn't do much, didn't eat, looked pre-molty to me. I started reading threads about avics again and found out that while humidity might be important, ventilation seems to be much more of an issue with them. I increased her ventilation a BUNCH, just to be safe, and she seemed to become more active over the next day or so..A few days after that she started eating crickets gently off the tongs. She has started growing her hair back on her abdomen but she still has the dark spot, so I guess she's still in pre-molt, but it seems to be a long one and she seems to have a good appetite now..The only other thing I did differently in that period was lower the room temp a few degrees to 73 F. Hope this helps.

Your temps are too cool for a wild caught spider that just came from the tropics. That's part of the problem, on top of all the other adjustments it has to make.

Last month I helped a local dealer unpack 400 Avic Avics from Guyana, and some looked like yours with dull colors. Yours probably needs to molt, but first it needs food and water to plump up.

I'm not a tarantula expert (far from it in fact, so I could very well be wrong) but shouldn't it have more substrate than just enough to barely cover the glass on the bottom? I hear a lot about deep enough substrate on here.

VenomousMe said:

I have an avic I purchased about 2 months ago. She had a completely bald abdomen and a large dark spot as well. I put her in a small standard arboreal setup and she stayed pretty much the same. Didn't do much, didn't eat, looked pre-molty to me. I started reading threads about avics again and found out that while humidity might be important, ventilation seems to be much more of an issue with them. I increased her ventilation a BUNCH, just to be safe, and she seemed to become more active over the next day or so..A few days after that she started eating crickets gently off the tongs. She has started growing her hair back on her abdomen but she still has the dark spot, so I guess she's still in pre-molt, but it seems to be a long one and she seems to have a good appetite now..The only other thing I did differently in that period was lower the room temp a few degrees to 73 F. Hope this helps.

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to my knowledge.. Tarantula's do not regrow the lost hairs from their abdomens until they molt. just saying.

Spepper said:

I'm not a tarantula expert (far from it in fact, so I could very well be wrong) but shouldn't it have more substrate than just enough to barely cover the glass on the bottom? I hear a lot about deep enough substrate on here.

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Avics don't make retreats in the substrate (unlike most other 'arboreals'), so they only need enough to provide a cushion if they fall, and to anchor the cage decorations and water bowl in.

Poec54 said:

It doesn't have a fat abdomen, so it probably isn't premolt. It should be eating. The proper set up for Avics is dry substrate and a water bowl, with cross ventilation. I don't like screen tops as cold and hot drafts can blow in them, plus they're more susceptible to fumes and smoke. The wood looks good, but it should have some plastic plants so it's not so exposed, that also encourages spinning.

Why are you handling it? That adds to it's stress It needs to adjust to it's new surroundings and Godzilla keeps picking it up.

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I do try to avoid handling it or touching it. I usually only bug it if I have to. For instance, in the old set up, the tarantula would frequently sit between the large piece of wood I have in there, and the glass side of the tank. Because it was cramped, I couldn't reach in to collect dead crickets or the water dish without bumping the log and potentially hurting the tarantula. I figured I could nudge it over, but I found it was actually difficult to "scare" it away (and I don't want to make it any more stressed than it is). The only two times I ever really picked it up was when i has to clean the tank, and when it latched onto a water bowl that I needed to dump out.

As far as a "hidden" location goes, the tarantula appears to have webbed up the inside of the toilet paper tube I put in there. Its still fairly whispy, but its definitely more substantial than I've observed previously. Last night, it had almost walled itself in, but this morning there was a hole and I assume it climbed out at night.

I will look for some fake plants to put in there. Not that I want to stress the spider out more, but would it be wise to eventually vertically orient the tank, or should I just leave it alone?

Poec54 said:

Your temps are too cool for a wild caught spider that just came from the tropics. That's part of the problem, on top of all the other adjustments it has to make.

Last month I helped a local dealer unpack 400 Avic Avics from Guyana, and some looked like yours with dull colors. Yours probably needs to molt, but first it needs food and water to plump up.

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I was concerned about this, but I was also concerned about burning the tarantula with a heat pad. Even though its supposed to spend most of its time on the top of the cage, I spot this Pink Toe on the bottom all the time. I understand that heat lamps aren't appropriate either. My room is much warmer than many other parts of my house, so I will make space for it there. Still, even my room does get cold in the winter.


The following photo is the OLD set up. I have not taken an overall shot of the new organization of the cage. one of the water Dishes was removed in these shots. Should I attempt to build a similar interior, but with fake plants and less substrate? (and probably a few tubes for good measure?) I am considering removing the large log. The spider never seems to go inside, but all the crickets do. It takes up a lot of space as well.

ratluvr76 said:

to my knowledge.. Tarantula's do not regrow the lost hairs from their abdomens until they molt. just saying.

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What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..

VenomousMe said:

What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..

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Okay, take it easy man. If you're really that easily bothered, then maybe this isn't the best forum to be a member of. I understand it's frustrating dealing with certain people here, but from what I'm reading, it doesn't look like anyone was directly attacking or insulting you. Yeah he was a bit snappy with his wording, and could've worded it better, but I don't think it's anything worth getting this upset over.

VenomousMe said:

What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..

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wow... kiss my ass??

VenomousMe said:

What knowledge do you refer to? Experience? You know this for fact? "to my knowledge" is rather vague man. I've only had one tarantula molt, so I'm not sure. But it looks like mine is regrowing her abdomen hair. Don't worry sweetheart I'll be more precise next time, just for you. I've only been here a short time and I'm already getting tired of the "regulars" here..

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To be more accurate, tarantulas have bristles not hair. Hair/fur grows from pores which are found on mammals. Urticating hairs/bristles are not regrown after being kicked. The tarantula has to molt the old exo to replace them.

I'm not really that upset. I'm just irritated and maybe a little blunt. And judging from the replies I'm seeing on this forum to newer members from older members, my last comment stands. But don't worry about it brother, it's just the same old thing

VenomousMe said:

I'm not really that upset. I'm just irritated and maybe a little blunt. And judging from the replies I'm seeing on this forum to newer members from older members, my last comment stands. But don't worry about it brother, it's just the same old thing

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it's not the same old thing, and you're more than blunt, you're downright rude. "to my knowledge" means exactly that and I draw my knowledge from hours and hours of researching and reading first hand accounts from people that have been keeping spiders for years. Also, do you think that the issue of regrowth or not of hair on tarantula's is a topic that has not been observed dozens of times by people from the 80's? You have named yourself aptly... VenomousMe.. yes you are Venemous and just as defensive as one of these Tarantula's we all love. No worries, I will not be giving you a chance to sink you're figurative fangs in me again. I wasn't ever caustic towards you, nor did I ever give you a reason to be so defensive towards me. I can see that you are one of those thin skinned people that gets easily offended.

so with that, my answer also stands, kiss my ass. I am not a brother, I am a sister, and if I were a "brother" I promise you, you are NOT a brother of mine.

VenomousMe said:

I'm not really that upset. I'm just irritated and maybe a little blunt. And judging from the replies I'm seeing on this forum to newer members from older members, my last comment stands. But don't worry about it brother, it's just the same old thing

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I get that it's frustrating, and some of that does need to change. Still though, I wouldn't let it bother you. I've been in the same boat and been talked down to by many of the more experienced members in the past. The problem is that many of the experienced keepers feel the need to be blunt and not "sugarcoat" things (you'll see that word a lot around here), and while they have good intentions for the hobby, I think many of them don't realize it often does the opposite effect and drives people away from the hobby. Personally, I try not to pick sides and to stay towards the middle of the spectrum. It really goes both ways.

Oumriel said:

To be more accurate, tarantulas have bristles not hair. Hair/fur grows from pores which are found on mammals. Urticating hairs/bristles are not regrown after being kicked. The tarantula has to molt the old exo to replace them.

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Thank you Oumriel.

The crew here reasonably assumes that a 3-inch A. avic from a pet store is going to be WC from Guyana. Tens of thousands of them leave Guyana each year and a few shipments have gone out recently. About two months ago I received 20 hand picked specimens, and the report I received was that many of those remaining weren’t in good shape. Of those that arrived, about 4 were brown, the color of yours, the rest blue. The brown ones molted within a month or two of arrival and are now blue. Some of the early molters didn’t make it much past molt, despite available water, perhaps the most important element for a spider peri-molt. All had abdomens about the size of yours (I mean your T’s), a fact of wild living . . . none of them having found that unlucky bird I guess. I agree yours seems to be entering premolt, whether or not its condition is optimal. As mentioned above, transition to captivity is key, and it’s more important now to try to mimic Guyana’s environment than at any other time in its future. That your T made it a month bodes well, but no guarantees, particularly because of the WC situation. Minimal disturbance, better temp/humidity control, and close observation as you are doing will hopefully get it through the next few weeks. I second the no-touching suggestion as the molt phase is high risk. Good luck and please drop a follow-up note.

I've had Ts survive 3 months without anything. Just soil and an rnclosure. No water, nofood, no adjustments to humidity or temp. Basically nothing. If you're worried about it not eating for a week, it could go much longer. Tarantulas eat as much as they can. And they will eat qhenever they want. Offer it a food item once a week and see if it eats. Otherwise, just provide it with water and that will e more than enough. No need to worry.

Get rid of the toilet paper. If that gets wet,, it will become a breeding ground for mold and bacteria.