About Orthoporus

CrawlinChaos

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Hello everyone! So, I'm a relative newbie to the whole bug keeping thing (just passed my 1 year anniversary this August) and, for now, most of my interest is in keeping millipedes. I've acquired several species at this point, managed to keep most of them alive and successful bred two of them. But, sadly one of my favorite species has neither done that well for me or bred, namely Orthoporus ornatus "Texas Gold". I stared with 2 of them (my first bugs, actually!) and then picked up a 3rd in hopes of getting a male for breeding, which I did. However, the two original ones have since passed on to the great compost pile in the sky and the poor male has been left all alone. I'm here now because I'm at a turning point. I want to make a decision about whether to try to keep any more Orhtoporus or not. I've read a lot of conflicted things online about them: some people say their easy to care for, some people say their hard to care for, some people say they live a long time, some people say they tend to die off quickly, etc, etc. So, given that I know there are number of experienced 'peders on here, I thought this would be the best place to come for answers. Anything you can tell me about your experiences with Orthoporus care and breeding would be greatly appreciated. I think the Golds are some of the biggest, prettiest, most easy going millipedes around (at least mine were) and I hate to have to write them off as a species to keep in my collection. Thanks!
 

Cavedweller

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My condolences for your loss.

I've kept Orthoporus ornatus for over a year with no losses. I keep them the same as any other millipede, but water a little less and drill extra ventilation holes in their tub. What was your setup like?

Unfortunately there's been no success breeding them in captivity as far as I know. If you wanna give breeding a try, I suggest something easy to care for and breed in captivity, like C. spinigerus or N. americanus. Unfortunately neither of these have the colors or size of an Orthoporus.
 

CrawlinChaos

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My setup doesn't really matter anymore, as the the lonely male just kicked the bucket last week. Maybe I'll try them again in the future, but if they don't breed, I'll probably pass. One of the main reasons I collect 'pedes and bugs in general is that you can maintain them in culture without hardly any extra effort, unlike reptiles or small mammals. The two species I have gotten to breed for me are N. gordanus (these guys seriously must be the tanks of the millipede world) and Tonkinbolus caudulanus. The T. caudulanus is a really awesome story actually. I originally bought 3 of them and two died off after probably less than a month (one was missing almost all his legs when I got him and the other also had foot rot). The third survived and has actually flourished, having grown to at least 5 inches now. The really cool part though was that about 4-5 months after the two died, I spotted some babies! So far, I've counted at least 5 babies, the largest of which is now almost an inch long. Considering that this species is somewhat uncommon in the trade, I feel like I got really lucky. I actually just picked up some N. americanus and some C. spinigerus and am hoping they will do well for me. The C. spinigerus makes me a little nervous, as they are the only 'pedes I've ordered were several died during shipping.
 

MrCrackerpants

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Glad to hear you are getting into millipedes. Millipedes are very cool. The Apeuthes sp. (Thai Rainbow Millipede) are often mislabeled as Tonkinbolus caudulanus. To my knowledge all the Thai Rainbow Millipedes in the U.S. are Apeuthes sp. Kinda weird that we do not even know the scientific name but just the genus...
 
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CrawlinChaos

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Oh, well, that's good to know. Thanks! I've actually been into millipedes for little over a year now. I've currently got 8 species in my collection, so I guess I'm doing pretty well, haha. I agree that they are very cool and I kind of wish there was more interest in them. One of the things that I find really fun about keeping millipedes is the input you get to have into the enclosure setup. I go out and collect my own leaves to use (after sterilizing them) from a local park and I like to add hard wood mulch and sphagnum moss to their substrate. Its one of the few instances I can think of where your pet gets to eat his living space. I also like that their both easy to handle and observe. You don't have to worry about them skittering or jumping or flying away if you want to get a look at them. Oh, and the fact that their almost ridiculously low maintenance, haha.
 

Cavedweller

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Sorry to hear that. But I think it might be especially important to take a look at how you set up the enclosure, since all of them died.

I experienced the same sudden dieoff followed by a pedeling explosion with my own Thai rainbows. I hope we can get to the bottom of it someday.

Aww that sucks to lose them in shipping. Did you contact the seller? How were they packaged?
 

CrawlinChaos

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Yeah, the setup might have been to blame, though they didn't all die at once, so I'm not too sure about that. Like I said, since they don't readily breed in captivity, I'll probably pass on Orthoporus in the future. Its really a shame though, because my Orthoporus were some of the most mellow, easy going pedes that I have. However, Peter from bugsincyberspace.com (that's where I got my N. americanus) told me he's getting some Dendrostreptus in stock soon, so maybe I'll replace my Orthoporus with them as the 'big pede' in my collection.

I don't know if the die off had anything to do with pedelings. Like I said, the two that died were in pretty bad shape when I got them and the one that survived has done very well. I'm just happy to have the babies now. Hopefully someday they'll have babies of their own (which reminds me, is inbreeding a problem with millipedes?)

It was sort of alright losing them like that, as they were actually part of an second order that was sent to me accidentally and the seller didn't charge me for it. Still, I lost 3 out of 4 of them and I actually had 1 of the 5 from the original order die shortly after I received them. Both orders were packaged the way I've received most of my pedes, in small plastic containers with damp paper towel and some substrate.
 

MrCrackerpants

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Sorry to hear that. But I think it might be especially important to take a look at how you set up the enclosure, since all of them died.

I experienced the same sudden dieoff followed by a pedeling explosion with my own Thai rainbows. I hope we can get to the bottom of it someday.

Aww that sucks to lose them in shipping. Did you contact the seller? How were they packaged?
Can you go into more detail on your Thai Rainbows? I ultimately get lots to survive to adulthood but it seems I have a good number die before reaching adulthood. Maybe it is the evolutionary reproductive strategy of this species. I have tried to change up my enclosure but can't seem to stop the deaths. Thanks in advance.
 

SDCPs

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Feb 8, 2012
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Sorry to hear that. But I think it might be especially important to take a look at how you set up the enclosure, since all of them died.

I experienced the same sudden dieoff followed by a pedeling explosion with my own Thai rainbows. I hope we can get to the bottom of it someday.

Aww that sucks to lose them in shipping. Did you contact the seller? How were they packaged?
What do they look like when they're dieing? Like this sometimes? In that they are uncoordinated:

[video=youtube_share;LwdgY2xwg4A]http://youtu.be/LwdgY2xwg4A[/video]

Can you go into more detail on your Thai Rainbows? I ultimately get lots to survive to adulthood but it seems I have a good number die before reaching adulthood. Maybe it is the evolutionary reproductive strategy of this species. I have tried to change up my enclosure but can't seem to stop the deaths. Thanks in advance.
 

MrCrackerpants

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What do they look like when they're dieing? Like this sometimes? In that they are uncoordinated:

[video=youtube_share;LwdgY2xwg4A]http://youtu.be/LwdgY2xwg4A[/video]
My Rainbows do not display this but my flamelegs do....just like yours. My Rainbows slowly die and usually have very few legs left. I have noticed this in two enclosures with different humidity levels as I thought it could be foot rot. Maybe it is just foot rot but it does not seems to behave like when my A. gigas got foot rot because it was too moist. Maybe Cavedweller can let us know also.
 

Cavedweller

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I was wondering if it was their normal life cycle as well, but I seem to recall Orin's book saying this species can live up to 14 years? (Not at home right now to check).

I don't recall any foot rot at all with my Thai rainbows. I didn't see any of the uncoordinated flailing either. The only thing that strikes me as noteworthy is that they were mating ALL THE TIME before suddenly dying off within about a month.
 

MrCrackerpants

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I was wondering if it was their normal life cycle as well, but I seem to recall Orin's book saying this species can live up to 14 years? (Not at home right now to check).

I don't recall any foot rot at all with my Thai rainbows. I didn't see any of the uncoordinated flailing either. The only thing that strikes me as noteworthy is that they were mating ALL THE TIME before suddenly dying off within about a month.
Thanks. I might just have my enclosures to moist. Yes, Orin states they can live a long time and I have had some live many years. Are your deaths male or female or both?
 

Cavedweller

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All of them, I think it was 3 females and 2 males. I'm not sure if moisture is an issue, my pedelings are in a very moist enclosure and have been doing great. Maybe it's more of an problem for adults? I'll try a more ventilated enclosure when I rehouse them just to be safe.
 

SDCPs

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The only thing that strikes me as noteworthy is that they were mating ALL THE TIME before suddenly dying off within about a month.
Ok. There's something. I have lost adult flamelegs all at one time, and multiple young adult Philippine blue millipedes and baby flamelegs (although the babies were the most resiliant) all in the same enclosure. Mardonious were not affected...seems the African millipedes are far more resistant...or the spp--you guys will have to correct me since you have the millipede books--sperospestus species. The spirobolids seem susceptible to this. Thai rainbow is a spirobolid, no? In the other classification as A. gigas?

Ivory millipedes are also much more susceptible than narceus americanus or gordanus. Same difference IMHO.

Anyway, there ARE ways to prevent this. I've experienced this at least 5 times total...and I'm getting really good at prevention.
  1. Keep things on the dry side. Millipedes really don't need that much moisture. let the surface of the substrate get dry. As long as it's damp underneath they're fine. I don't mist at all. What I do is add water when the substrate is dry like this. I alternate between slightly moist and dry. And I really do mean dry. Like the top half of the substrate is...well...pretty much devoid of water. That's a bit extreme but you should let the top 1/5th get this way. One more note, when I do substrate I put in cocofiber, oak leaves (and the wood which sometimes comes with them) some bamboo leaves right now, sand, and I'd put more types of leaves if I had a good supply of them. Then I mix things up evenly, maybe throwing a bit of a leaf layer on top if I feel like it. Its not needed, and in certain circumstances don't do it. Pedes are much more visible without leaf cover BTW. My Pomegranate tree should be dropping leaves soon!
  2. Have a high concentration of inedible/less edible matter in your enclosures. I don't know what it is, maybe lots of oak makes things more acidic or something. I've been using a good amount of coco-fiber, and then I even add dried bamboo leaves since I have those readily on hand. Fungus grows on the bambo leaves, and that is eaten, but the leaves themselves are not and they don't decompose quickly, so they also help areate the media.
  3. Related to 2: try to diversify. Just oak--I think you should mix things up. Millipedes can eat a lot of leaves, and if they don't want to they seem to just avoid.
  4. Don't know how much it helps, but add some sand to the soil. It makes the substrate airier, and much easier to dig through.
  5. Limit the use of rotting wood. I think its just too rich oftentimes.
  6. Feed LOTS of different fruits and veggies. Make yourself a fruit/vegie smoothy and feed the pedes the tops of persimmons, the cores of apples. Mango pits. Melon rinds. They love avocado peels and I think the more animal-like composition of avocado does them good. Place face down on the substrate and they will crawl in and eat it. You can usually leave the peel in indefinitely if you got most of the "meat" out. Eventually they may eat the peel itself.
  7. Feed some protein. Fish food works great. Dog or cat food will probably do the trick also. I don't do this much anymore but it would probably help a lot. I should start again.
  8. MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did I make that clear? NEVER, EVER let the substrate become like potting soil...deep and black when it used to be brown leaves and coco fiber. When this happens epidemics break out. If the substrate doesn't look at the very least vaguely like it did when you put it in, CHANGE IT. Put the millipedes (and some of the old substrate is fine) gently in a bucket...pick them out by hand...and plop them in 100% brand new substrate. This will stop the epidemic (well, ones that are too far gone will die anyway).
  9. Don't let the food rot too much. Practice makes perfect...but oftentimes you can leave apple cores in there to rot and its fine.
  10. keep the substrate shallowish...less room for anaerobic bacteria.
  11. Make sure ventilation is not low. Higher is probably better...to a point.

Essentially, feeding the millipedes a diverse substrate, different fruits and veggies (that they eat, no point in feeding them stuff they don't eat...or try cooking things like carrots which are naturally too hard for the millipedes), protein...keeps them strong.

And keeping a relatively fresh substrate (its more work, I know) along with keeping that substrate relatively dry really prevents outbreaks. I mean, how would you like to live in and eat your excrement? Especially if it was really wet and ucky. Sounds like the perfect breeding ground for disease.
 
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CrawlinChaos

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I personally haven't had any mass die off as of yet. Any time I've lost pedes they've died off slowly over time, including the two Thai rainbows that died. The only time I've seen that flailing behavior shortly before death was with one of the Ivories I received last week who snuffed it shortly after being unpacked. Recently, I feel like I've noticed less pedelings in my N. godanus enclosure than previously, but I'm not sure if they've been dying or maybe its just time for them to molt (do you guys notice any sort of cycle to molting?)
Thanks for the tips, SDCP. I feel like one thing to consider here though is the natural environment of millipedes. Unless they are arboreal, millipedes are going to be spending most of their time in the leaf litter of forest floors, right? Having spent some time in the woods digging around in the leaf litter, I have observed it to be not only incredibly moist but also full of fungus, especially under logs or rotting wood. So, maybe moisture and fungus aren't the real problems. Personally, I suspect that the problem might lie in the lack of the micro environment that is present in forest soil. In their natural environment, millipedes live among a wide range of different fungi, bacteria, mites, worms (flat and round), springtails, and small insects. In our enclosure, the biological diversity is obviously going to be a lot less, even if you didn't sterilize your substrate. So, without that natural microenviroment, certain pathogenic bacteria or fungus might have a tendency to dominant and cause problems. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Also, am I the only person who has tried using dried reptile food? I choose it over dog or cat food thinking that it would contain more dried fruits and calcium than other pet food. So far, my millipedes roaches and springtails seems to love it.
 

SDCPs

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I personally haven't had any mass die off as of yet. Any time I've lost pedes they've died off slowly over time, including the two Thai rainbows that died. The only time I've seen that flailing behavior shortly before death was with one of the Ivories I received last week who snuffed it shortly after being unpacked. Recently, I feel like I've noticed less pedelings in my N. godanus enclosure than previously, but I'm not sure if they've been dying or maybe its just time for them to molt (do you guys notice any sort of cycle to molting?)
Thanks for the tips, SDCP. I feel like one thing to consider here though is the natural environment of millipedes. Unless they are arboreal, millipedes are going to be spending most of their time in the leaf litter of forest floors, right? Having spent some time in the woods digging around in the leaf litter, I have observed it to be not only incredibly moist but also full of fungus, especially under logs or rotting wood. So, maybe moisture and fungus aren't the real problems. Personally, I suspect that the problem might lie in the lack of the micro environment that is present in forest soil. In their natural environment, millipedes live among a wide range of different fungi, bacteria, mites, worms (flat and round), springtails, and small insects. In our enclosure, the biological diversity is obviously going to be a lot less, even if you didn't sterilize your substrate. So, without that natural microenviroment, certain pathogenic bacteria or fungus might have a tendency to dominant and cause problems. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Also, am I the only person who has tried using dried reptile food? I choose it over dog or cat food thinking that it would contain more dried fruits and calcium than other pet food. So far, my millipedes roaches and springtails seems to love it.
Lack of fauna could well be a huge problem. I just shared my tips on how to prevent what eventually become massive dieoffs. But I usually have several hundred millipedes on one enclosure...if not just because they reproduce. With a few millipedes things are less extreme but I can't think of a situation where my previous suggestions would not be good...maybe breeding. Millipedes seem to like to breed in wet environments. I'll just have to wait for the next round of flamelegs and see how they do in a more somber, drier, habitat.

But in any case, what I've shared really works for me...I'm doing something right with the flamelegs at least based on the number of offspring I get per number of parents retained.
 

CrawlinChaos

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Of course. I wasn't suggesting that you're tips weren't incredibly insightful. I was just sharing my thoughts on the matter. I have yet to have the sort of success that you have achieved with your millipedes and I'll be sure to heed your suggestions if I ever reach the point were I have such a large number of millipedes to care for (fingers crossed). Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea how many generations of flamelegs you have gone through at this point?
 

SDCPs

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This would be my second generation I believe. I've probably run into more trouble than most keepers because I approached millipedes as something that was super easy to care for. They are but do need some care, hehe! But hey, it's good to learn.

But I should also say that I really tried to get things right, I didn't really know how tight the tolerances were.
 
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