My bearded dragon's yellow fungus help!

ARACHNO-SMACK48

Arachnoknight
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Hey guys,

I have a bearded dragon that is a little over 1 year old, male, and full-grown. Ever since about a month after I got him I noticed he had a spot on his back that was slightly darker than the rest of his back. It slowly grew and became more and more dark. At first I thought it was a spot that just wasn't molting. But I took him to a vet and he tested positive for yellow fungus. I have been treating the fungus with a strong oral anti fungal that I cannot remember the name of at the moment as well as silver sulfide cream applied directly to the affected area. I have been using the silver sulfide for several months. Several large layers of the spot dried and became flaky and I was able to remove them fairly easily. I have started using the oral anti fungal for just a few weeks now but I have a very busy schedule and I am ashamed to admit that I have forgotten to give it to him on several occasions. I looked up the oral medication and found out that it is effective but somewhat slow working. The visible fungus is about the area of two quarters and appears to go somewhat deep. I just wanted some opinions from you guys. I love my dragon very much and I want the best for him. Do you think with the consistent use of medications he will be able to kick this thing? Or will it be something that he will have to live with for the rest of his life? Have any of you dealt with yellow fungus in beardies? What worked for you? Any suggestions/ treatments are much appreciated. Thx
 

The Snark

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Sigh. Fungi that has established itself intradermally might never be fully eradicated. The spores can live for years and are unaffected by any antibiotic. The second problem is oral antifungals are pretty powerful poisons in themselves that can easily shorten an animals life span. The other treatments that have been used involved destruction of the skin layers in the hopes they will rebuild infection free. High concentration H2O2, LASER or cryo-excision treatments or skin transplants being the last resort approach.

My dad had an athletes foot fungus for over 40 years he never could get rid of. I have had a fungal infection that is pretty well controlled but flares up every month or two. I contracted that infection in 2004 from a loofa pad and 2 expert dermatologists more or less told me the above. Once it has gone intradermal it's similar to a tattoo. Destruction of the harboring cells is the only way to eradicate.
 
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ARACHNO-SMACK48

Arachnoknight
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He is looking better for sure... he is in overall good health. Instead of having a large concentrated spot he now has faint yellow coloration spread across parts of his back and head... but its not even noticeable. Im not expecting it to magically disappear but it doesn't seem to be compromising his health at all. On a separate note... my tarantula collection is located in a temperature controlled closet right next to my beardie cage. Should I be worried buying, selling and trading T's who have been living near a beardie with yellow fungus or am I overthinking this?
 

dementedlullaby

Arachnobaron
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He is looking better for sure... he is in overall good health. Instead of having a large concentrated spot he now has faint yellow coloration spread across parts of his back and head... but its not even noticeable. Im not expecting it to magically disappear but it doesn't seem to be compromising his health at all. On a separate note... my tarantula collection is located in a temperature controlled closet right next to my beardie cage. Should I be worried buying, selling and trading T's who have been living near a beardie with yellow fungus or am I overthinking this?
How old is the beardie in question? Are you absolutely positive the colouration spreading now is fungus? I've seen numerous people freak about fungus but it's actually just their dragon colouring up. I was also freaked about fungus with one of my rescues but it turns out that was the case as well lol. He was just finally coming around because he was given proper care after coming my way.

If it is fungus for sure please take him back to the vet and keep him on his med schedule. I think you may be overthinking about the T's though. I wouldn't worry about it unless you start noticing odd behaviour in them.

The people on www.beardeddragon.org are very helpful/knowledgeable regarding beardies. I'd also suggest posting over there for further help if you haven't already. I'll keep an eye on this thread and try and offer advice as well :). Beardies are such awesome lizards!
 

ARACHNO-SMACK48

Arachnoknight
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How old is the beardie in question? Are you absolutely positive the colouration spreading now is fungus? I've seen numerous people freak about fungus but it's actually just their dragon colouring up. I was also freaked about fungus with one of my rescues but it turns out that was the case as well lol. He was just finally coming around because he was given proper care after coming my way.

If it is fungus for sure please take him back to the vet and keep him on his med schedule. I think you may be overthinking about the T's though. I wouldn't worry about it unless you start noticing odd behaviour in them.
The people on www.beardeddragon.org are very helpful/knowledgeable regarding beardies. I'd also suggest posting over there for further help if you haven't already. I'll keep an eye on this thread and try and offer advice as well :). Beardies are such awesome lizards!
He tested positive for yellow fungus. What about transferring the fungus to other collectors who happen to have reptiles?
 

The Snark

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"Yellow fungus' is too ambiguous. Can you get a proper name? From that you should be able to at least get a general idea of the organism properties. But generally speaking you can figure the spores have spread everywhere. But without the proper circumstances they may never develop into active colonies. Moisture and humidity are the key factors to enable the vast majority of fungi to spread. Otherwise, just think bacterial infection. The mechanisms for control and containment are much the same.


To give some idea how stubborn and resistant fungi and the spores are. I installed a wood door downstairs that developed a powdery white fungus over most of it's surface, High humidity and a ceramic tile floor, a moisture condenser, gave it the opportunity. I sprayed the door until the entire surface was wet with fungicide maybe 20 times over the course of 2 years. A few months later, back it came. I took the door outside and placed it in full sunlight for a week with daily soakings of fungicide. No effect. A few months and back it came.

We were told the fungi was a hazard to humans, an opportunity infector that invades the lungs. We both had off and on respiratory congestion problems. I tried a 25% solution of chlorine bleach repeatedly. It came back just like after the fungicide.

I was ready to take the door outside and burn it but that fungus is ubiquitous here. The inside of the shoe keeper, no ventilation to speak of, and the shoes in it, quickly got coated with the white powder, picked up from walking in the garden.

My final solution for the door was sealing in it a latex primer which is waterproof. It took three thorough coatings but that finally did the job. No doubt the spores are still viable inside the wood but denied air and moisture the organism can't grow and bloom. So it's like the myco expert told me, create a hostile environment to prevent the organism from taking hold and going through the entire cycle. It's quite possible the fungi will remain within the animal for the rest of it's life but not present a hazard as long as the full life cycle of the organism is kept in check. Keep it healthy and let it's immune system wage the battle.


To give another example of the odd microscopic world of fungi. The native Calirornia oak trees, Quercus engelmannii, the Engleman oak aka Pasadena Oak, were dying out in large numbers. At first, not realizing what they were dealing with they started watering the oaks, even installing sophisticated watering systems in places. It was like pouring gasoline on a fire. The mycologists finally pinpointed the problem, the honey fungus, Armillaria. Watering was exacerbating the problem. The die out of the oaks came from the oaks getting watered along with everything else from local residents.

But then a case of strange entered the picture. The fungi was genetically identified and they discovered the honey fungus may be the largest 'plant' in the world. The rhizomes of the fungus in LA County Arboretum at Santa Anita, and samples taken from Riverside County 35 miles away were from the same fungus. An interconnected web of rhizomes covering hundreds of square miles.
 
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ARACHNO-SMACK48

Arachnoknight
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Guys... I know for a fact that my beardie has yellow fungus. I do not know the exact type. My question is... Should I be worried about accidentally introducing the fungus to other people who might be keeping reptiles through my buying, selling, and trading tarantulas from my collection that is located right next to my beardie's cage. Will I ever be able to keep reptiles again? If I were to move to another house in the future... Would I be able to keep other reptiles there? Should I just leave the hobby because there is a chance that I will spread this fungus through my transactions?
 

dementedlullaby

Arachnobaron
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Is there a chance? Sure why not? If you properly treat the dragon and don't forget to give it the meds then you minimize such risks obviously. Which is why I asked for a photo, so maybe I can give you better info on how to treat the animal you decided to care for.
 

The Snark

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Guys... I know for a fact that my beardie has yellow fungus. I do not know the exact type. My question is... Should I be worried about accidentally introducing the fungus to other people who might be keeping reptiles through my buying, selling, and trading tarantulas from my collection that is located right next to my beardie's cage. Will I ever be able to keep reptiles again? If I were to move to another house in the future... Would I be able to keep other reptiles there? Should I just leave the hobby because there is a chance that I will spread this fungus through my transactions?
Impossible to answer. That's like when I was in charge of infection control at a hospital and you came up to me and asked if you could catch a disease at the hospital. The answer is, absolutely, unless you don't.
Again, if you can name the fungi we might be able to better determine how easily it can be spread. Yellow fungi refers to numerous varieties.

You don't have total isolation and can't achieve it. So we have to go by the specific pathogen and it's opportunistic properties and propensity. That can range from embryonic cell transference to fluid serum to free airborne transmission - latent, and pernicious extreme prevalence to rare, transmission medium unknown.

Maybe it doesn't spread at all, especially to arthropoda, maybe a mild topical antibiotic would control it or maybe it's like a Pseudomonas outbreak we had at the hospital which took weeks to isolate and eradicating it required washing the whirlpool baths with a strong acid solution.
 
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ARACHNO-SMACK48

Arachnoknight
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My research tells me "yellow fungus" is caused by the fungus " chrysosporium anamorph of Nanniziopsis vriessi" to my knowleege we don't know much about this disease other than the fact that it seems to be isolated to certain species of reptiles. I am not familiar with fungus in the least. So what do I do? Just quit the tarantula hobby and never go around any reptiles for the rest of my life out of fear that somehow 20 years from now I will still have spores on me or my stuff that could be some how be transferred to another reptile?
 

The Snark

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Okay, that helps a lot. Perusing the white papers. Fungi highly contagious and hazardous to reptiles. Suspected to have caused the reptilian bottleneck during the Cretaceous-Tertiary. Fungi is susceptible to neosporin so that could be used to limit or prevent transmission. No records indicate arthropods are susceptible. That fungi is presently causing an extreme die off of reptiles in certain locations in Australia.

So until you are positive the fungi is completely eradicated you shouldn't keep other reptiles. The fungi can also spread to mammals, inclusive of humans, and birds. Present recommendation is destroying the infected animals. Once systemic there is no known effective treatment.
 

ARACHNO-SMACK48

Arachnoknight
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Okay, that helps a lot. Perusing the white papers. Fungi highly contagious and hazardous to reptiles. Suspected to have caused the reptilian bottleneck during the Cretaceous-Tertiary. Fungi is susceptible to neosporin so that could be used to limit or prevent transmission. No records indicate arthropods are susceptible. That fungi is presently causing an extreme die off of reptiles in certain locations in Australia.

So until you are positive the fungi is completely eradicated you shouldn't keep other reptiles. The fungi can also spread to mammals, inclusive of humans, and birds. Present recommendation is destroying the infected animals. Once systemic there is no known effective treatment.
Destroying the infected animal is not an option. So you mean to say I could now be carrying this fungus? This is so freaking annoying!
 

dementedlullaby

Arachnobaron
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You can try betadine baths as well. Combined with Monistat that might help but you'll have to keep up the treatment every day.

Do you use substrate in the tank? I'd ditch it as that could harbor the fungus as well. Steam down the tank. The bottom of my beardie tanks are just tile. If you do bathe the fellow make sure he's 100% dry before putting him back.

Good luck and keep us updated!
 

The Snark

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Destroying the infected animal is not an option. So you mean to say I could now be carrying this fungus? This is so freaking annoying!
Damnably annoying. Really really really REALLY annoying. Try having an uncontrolled infection in the hospital where every time you go from one containment area to the next you have to change to another white suit, mask and head cover. I got the infection control-itus so bad I can't walk past a sink without feeling a compulsion to wash my hands.

Not sure about the efficacy of betadyne - povidone iodine. It's a front line anti-B but don't see any specifics on spore count reduction. If you use it just keep in mind it's pretty harsh, sometimes causing an assortment of dermal irritations.

Seems like the bearded dragon is ground zero for this fungus right now. Give some thought to quarantine. May turn into a species decimating pandemic.
 

ARACHNO-SMACK48

Arachnoknight
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Damnably annoying. Really really really REALLY annoying. Try having an uncontrolled infection in the hospital where every time you go from one containment area to the next you have to change to another white suit, mask and head cover. I got the infection control-itus so bad I can't walk past a sink without feeling a compulsion to wash my hands.

Not sure about the efficacy of betadyne - povidone iodine. It's a front line anti-B but don't see any specifics on spore count reduction. If you use it just keep in mind it's pretty harsh, sometimes causing an assortment of dermal irritations.

Seems like the bearded dragon is ground zero for this fungus right now. Give some thought to quarantine. May turn into a species decimating pandemic.
from what I have read this disease seems to be somewhat common amongs bearded dragons. T's are my main interest anyway so I can't really see myself keeping other herps in the near future. What about buying selling and trading T's? I have a real passion for this hobby and I really don't want to leave it. Having said that, I also don't want to spread fungus all over the place. Should I warn people I send T's to? What would you all do?
 

The Snark

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To give it to you from the horses mouth:
"... One exception to this is Chrysosporium anamorph Nannizziopsis vriesii (CANV). This fungus was originally considered a ubiquitous organism found in the soil and associated with infections in invertebrates, but is now considered to be an obligate pathogen of reptiles. Over the past 15 years, this fungus has been shown to be an emerging pathogen in captive reptiles,..."

That paper did not go into full verification of the fungi being inherently transmitted by invertebrates. Possibly that was an assumption. So it's emerging and the study period is pretty short, 15 years. It was considered non obligate, and considered opportunistic, but that has been corrected. The outbreaks are much more common among captive reptiles so humans are transmission agents through distribution and possibly direct transmission.

So to sum it, it's heading into epidemic regions and humans keeping infected reptiles are the major cause. Personally, I'd practice one way door protocol* along with casual transmission avoidance. IE, animals may enter your location but not leave and you should avoid having contact with other captive reptiles. It's your call. Science, rules, regulations and laws only go so far. It's ultimately up to the animal keepers of the world to contain epidemics.

*The drawback with one way door protocol is if you need to involve an expert like a veterinarian. You should notify the vet that your animals may have a highly contagious disease prior to taking them to the animal hospital. Some vets can accommodate them while others can't.**

**And some vets are epidemiology challenged. Numerous disease outbreaks have been traced back to veterinarians with abysmal infection control standards.
 
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