Experience with other dangerous animals - do you feel it has helped prepare you for T husbandry?

LythSalicaria

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People have been debating over when you're "ready" to deal with hotter species of T a lot around here lately, and to be honest I understand where both sides are coming from. It just seems like in the heat of said debates, communication became less clear and chaos ensued. Having made it a point to keep out of those discussions, at this point I'd like to steer the subject of recent debate in a slightly different direction.

I got my first hot Ts very recently (nothing too major - Psalmos, Hysterocrates and another that I'm not going to mention because I don't feel like getting lynched), and naturally some people were concerned. I understand why. I've stated in many threads that I'm not overly experienced with Tarantulas yet - however I picked the species I did based on the fact that various informational videos and articles recommended them as good choices for less experienced T owners who wanted more challenge than Avics and NW Terrestrials. This is exactly what I was looking for, as dealing with my current collection has been a little too easy. The most disturbing thing I've had to deal with so far is Ginger deciding to run up my tongs while I'm doing maintenance and trying to tag me - and that wasn't disturbing so much as shocking. I know Grammostolas can be moody, but what happened to that part about them being slow? LOL...But my point is, while I was surprised by her temper tantrum, I wasn't alarmed because I've dealt with similarly disturbing displays of defensiveness from much larger animals. When I was 16 I worked with a Groomer that often did work for the Humane Society. As a result, I ended up having to learn how to deal with scared, often angry and mistreated animals of every size. I've wrangled snarling 150 pound dogs into hug-holds - after that, a spider is an afterthought. I'm sorry if that statement makes me seem cocky, but it's the honest truth. At the end of the day, I'd rather have a select few specimens that will keep me on my toes early on, because it prevents me from developing any bad habits that could lead to a fatal mistake when I'm handling more hot specimens down the road. Does that make sense?

Also please note: I am very aware that a large angry dog and a large angry OBT are two very different things, but my point is that no matter which you cut your teeth on, you learn the sort of mentality and reflexes you have to have in order to care for them safely. Please, please don't let this turn into another locked thread...One reason I started this thread was to put nervous minds at ease, because while I am looking to be kept on my toes, I do not want to make any mistakes that could hurt the hobby. The other reason was because I would like the opinion of more experienced ABers - did I just pull a wall of text out of my not-so-wholesome regions, or am I making some kind of sense?
 

Poec54

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I think working for years with 150 cobras was a good start. OW tarantulas don't seem nearly as intimidating after that.
 

ratluvr76

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People have been debating over when you're "ready" to deal with hotter species of T a lot around here lately, and to be honest I understand where both sides are coming from. It just seems like in the heat of said debates, communication became less clear and chaos ensued. Having made it a point to keep out of those discussions, at this point I'd like to steer the subject of recent debate in a slightly different direction.

I got my first hot Ts very recently (nothing too major - Psalmos, Hysterocrates and another that I'm not going to mention because I don't feel like getting lynched), and naturally some people were concerned. I understand why. I've stated in many threads that I'm not overly experienced with Tarantulas yet - however I picked the species I did based on the fact that various informational videos and articles recommended them as good choices for less experienced T owners who wanted more challenge than Avics and NW Terrestrials. This is exactly what I was looking for, as dealing with my current collection has been a little too easy. The most disturbing thing I've had to deal with so far is Ginger deciding to run up my tongs while I'm doing maintenance and trying to tag me - and that wasn't disturbing so much as shocking. I know Grammostolas can be moody, but what happened to that part about them being slow? LOL...But my point is, while I was surprised by her temper tantrum, I wasn't alarmed because I've dealt with similarly disturbing displays of defensiveness from much larger animals. When I was 16 I worked with a Groomer that often did work for the Humane Society. As a result, I ended up having to learn how to deal with scared, often angry and mistreated animals of every size. I've wrangled snarling 150 pound dogs into hug-holds - after that, a spider is an afterthought. I'm sorry if that statement makes me seem cocky, but it's the honest truth. At the end of the day, I'd rather have a select few specimens that will keep me on my toes early on, because it prevents me from developing any bad habits that could lead to a fatal mistake when I'm handling more hot specimens down the road. Does that make sense?

Also please note: I am very aware that a large angry dog and a large angry OBT are two very different things, but my point is that no matter which you cut your teeth on, you learn the sort of mentality and reflexes you have to have in order to care for them safely. Please, please don't let this turn into another locked thread...One reason I started this thread was to put nervous minds at ease, because while I am looking to be kept on my toes, I do not want to make any mistakes that could hurt the hobby. The other reason was because I would like the opinion of more experienced ABers - did I just pull a wall of text out of my not-so-wholesome regions, or am I making some kind of sense?
indeed it did make sense to me. ;) I don't really have anything to add at this point. I've never really dealt with "hot" animals of any type sort or description. I WILL however be interested in seeing what others that have, have to say. :)
 

DrJ

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I tend to think that working with animals in general is a good start to working with other animals. Regardless of species. Granted, I think working with small rodents like mice or gerbils would help prepare you more than cobras or dogs for tarantula care. Why? You deal with them in very different ways, and a mouse or gerbil is going to give you a good idea of safely catching something that is small and quick moving.

Lyth, my main advice for you is DON'T BE AFRAID. Tarantulas on a whole are pretty forgiving. I'm very curious as to what this other species is that you are afraid of getting flamed over. Also, when you refer to making a "fatal mistake" is that in regards to the tarantula or yourself. It is important for you to note that no tarantula will kill you. Though, it wouldn't surprise me if some poor indoor nerd ventured into the great outdoors and died of a heart attack at the sight of one in the future. It's startling how people are so terrified of harmless creatures any more. In the other case, yes, it is important to learn proper husbandry, and we all start somewhere. Educate yourself and follow through. You should be fine. A Psalmo is something I would consider a more "advanced" species and if you find you can deal with it well, then you're be ready for anything...and I suspect you already are. ;)
 

LythSalicaria

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I tend to think that working with animals in general is a good start to working with other animals. Regardless of species. Granted, I think working with small rodents like mice or gerbils would help prepare you more than cobras or dogs for tarantula care. Why? You deal with them in very different ways, and a mouse or gerbil is going to give you a good idea of safely catching something that is small and quick moving.

Lyth, my main advice for you is DON'T BE AFRAID. Tarantulas on a whole are pretty forgiving. I'm very curious as to what this other species is that you are afraid of getting flamed over. Also, when you refer to making a "fatal mistake" is that in regards to the tarantula or yourself. It is important for you to note that no tarantula will kill you. Though, it wouldn't surprise me if some poor indoor nerd ventured into the great outdoors and died of a heart attack at the sight of one in the future. It's startling how people are so terrified of harmless creatures any more. In the other case, yes, it is important to learn proper husbandry, and we all start somewhere. Educate yourself and follow through. You should be fine. A Psalmo is something I would consider a more "advanced" species and if you find you can deal with it well, then you're be ready for anything...and I suspect you already are. ;)
Sorry for not being more clear on the whole "fatal mistake" thing. What I meant by fatal mistake is any sort of mistake that resulted in an injured or dead T and/or me ending up in the hospital and attracting negative media attention for the hobby as a whole. I've already run into several situations with my guys that lead me to believe I can handle what I've taken on - for example when I was unwrapping my GBB or my smithis. I've already told the smithi story, but when I was unpacking my GBB it darted out of its shipping container and performed a little threat display while it was standing on the lid...which I was holding with my bare fingers. It surprised me a bit, but I held still and under the assumption that it was probably going to make a break for freedom, started reaching for a catch cup. Instead of doing what I was expecting, after a second or two of holding the threat posture the sling just slowly ambled off the cap, over my fingertips and into its enclosure. I certainly wasn't afraid during the ordeal. LOL...I thought it was one of the cutest things I'd ever seen. :) Now naturally when my guys get bigger those threat displays aren't going to be so cute any more, but in the time leading up to that I will have had time to get to know them, what triggers their defense responses and what those responses are. I know that sort of experience is more important than all the reading and transferable skills in the world.

Thanks so much for the positive response guys, and thank you DrJ for your advice. :)
 

DrJ

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Haha! You are welcome. :)

I remember that B. smithi story, now. :laugh: And, it sounds like you have your nerves under control. Which, is impressive for somebody that, not even six months ago, would "shake like a leaf" at the sight of a spider. Not to mention, is probably the number one most important thing to accomplish for keeping good care of your Ts. Particularly when working with more difficult species.

At this point, I don't know if it's comforting to you or not, but I personally have found Psalmopoeus to be much more difficult than any OW species I have kept. Even if the venom level is much less significant. But, such is my experience. Hence, why I'm curious what that other species is that you received. Certain people think it's amazing when I stay calm working with Heteroscodra, Pterinochilus, Poecilotheria, etc...but they typically fail to realize that I still get nervous any time I reach into one of the Psalmo cages. Perhaps my opinion, but I think Psalmopoeus species are more intelligent by comparison.

Congrats on your new additions. Very exciting! :D By the way, Hysterogrates gigas is one of my favourites. ;)
 

shawno821

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I think working for years with 150 cobras was a good start. OW tarantulas don't seem nearly as intimidating after that.
+1 I worked with a large collection of 175 venomous,from 2 Gila monsters to inland taipans. There's just not the same consequences to messing up.Speed is also relative.OBT's just aren't that fast compared to a black mamba.It also taught me to remain cool under adversity.You're taught to follow protocol,without waiver.
Feeding protocol for the taipan:Carefully prod them,through a hole,to get them to go into the shift cage.Close and lock shift cage door.Recheck that snake is in shift cage again.Loosen the bolts holding down the lid.Recheck that snake is in the shift cage.Take off the lid,work the cage,leave a mouse.Put the lid back on.Check to make sure nothing is between the lid seal and the cage.Tighten the bolts.Recheck the seal.Unlock the shift cage door,pull it open.To your eye,the snake flinches,and the mouse across the cage is dead.
It's been 15 yrs since I've touched a hot,and I remember that and all the protocols for feeding the various species.They become ingrained because of the consequences of making a mistake.Apply such protocols with the same care to T's,and you avoid a lot of the troubles people run into.A large T room practically demands it.
 

DrJ

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Do cats count?
Why not? They are furry, act aloof as though they are better than you, enjoy climbing to precarious heights, knock things over or rearrange, are highly attracted to small moving things that may be edible, get hair everywhere, stridulate, get angry over slight provocation, pounce, butt wiggling, spinning, reach out for things you can't see just to leave as soon as you investigate, grooming, have secret stash piles, not-so-secret stash piles, force you to get intimately close in order to determine sex of youngsters, bites don't feel good, just as likely to get licked by either, claws/hooks, will jump on you and run about your person when scared, and the list goes on...the more I go, the more disconcerted I become on whether or not these have evolved down the same evolutionary line...or whether we deceive ourselves into thinking these are actually different species when they are the same.
 

cold blood

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Oh yeah, ticked off cats are dangerous. They can get you no matter what you do, and forget about holding them, you can't avoid all their flailing pointy parts. Now granted I have a ton of dog experience, but I always tell people I would rather go in and deal with a big snarling Rottweiler before a 10lb cat with a bad attitude. Cats are great when they like you, but a nightmare if they don't.

My dog loves cats, and I always worry about her getting hurt by getting to friendly with them, and she's not some tiny purse dog...adult boxer.

I have always dealt with dogs my whole life, training them, walking them, and then there were my dogs. Being able to keep calm is also critical, as is understanding how they think. The very first dogs I walked "professionally" could have ended bad. I walked them to a park, unbeknownst to me it was a place they were often taken to play. I get there, both dogs explode into play, one slips the collar, as I am trying to get it back, the other breaks free. Now I have 2 large dogs, that I had JUST met, running crazily (GSP and Boxer, both energetic, quick breeds). But because of my experience I was able to use basic dog psychology to gather both dogs rather quickly and turn the situation into a basic laugher.

For a good 15+ years in my youth, I spent A LOT of time face down on the banks of ponds, reaching under and locating large snapping turtles, identifying their direction and pulling them out by the tail. Caught so many I couldn't count them. Later when I worked at a Zoo, snappers would cross from pond to pond through the public walkways. I was generally the first responder to those calls. I was always amazed at how cautions and tense the keepers were when encountering them. While they would be making a huge deal of the situation I would walk up, grab it, put it in my golf cart and drive it to the next pond. I never understood their trepidation.

I also spend almost 20 years musky fishing. Loose your cool grabbing a big, strong, pissed off tooth filled muskellunge in the 20-30+lb range shaking huge treble hooks at you without caution and confidence and it can get ugly really fast and land you in the ER. I hand landed most of them.

I agree with the op's assessment.
 
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viper69

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Experience with other dangerous animals - do you feel it has helped prepare y...

I've worked with ticked off cats too- Siberian Tigers

To the OP, can't speak for others here but if you have little experience and get a real monster of a T, get tagged and die, I don't care. Get whatever you want, you only have 1 life to live!

Technically speaking there are no documented cases of people who have died from a T. One could be allergic and die on the spot, like tree nuts.
 

gobey

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Why not? They are furry, act aloof as though they are better than you, enjoy climbing to precarious heights, knock things over or rearrange, are highly attracted to small moving things that may be edible, get hair everywhere, stridulate, get angry over slight provocation, pounce, butt wiggling, spinning, reach out for things you can't see just to leave as soon as you investigate, grooming, have secret stash piles, not-so-secret stash piles, force you to get intimately close in order to determine sex of youngsters, bites don't feel good, just as likely to get licked by either, claws/hooks, will jump on you and run about your person when scared, and the list goes on...the more I go, the more disconcerted I become on whether or not these have evolved down the same evolutionary line...or whether we deceive ourselves into thinking these are actually different species when they are the same.
They count towards being used towards caring for an animal in general. Idk how much I can compare my cat Pinky to USAMBARA the OBT. I react to each differently, especially when angry.

But dangerous or let's even call it wild animals I think is different. Whether you've kept them or worked with them is pretty big. For that remaining calm factor. Nothing could prepare me for what a fast orange tarantula and it's old world relatives will behave like aside from some preliminary research and actually seeing the animal before me. In fact tarantulas in general are unique to me in working with such a small animal to be respected and a new perspective on something like a spider.

But my confidence and remaining calm so far, which led to my tarantula species selection.... Well.... Ever chum for Mako sharks in the cold Atlantic until they appear. And then dive in the water with them? Because I don't know if you realize the shark cage is in the water first WITHOUT you in it. I don't use scuba gear either. Snorkel baby.

But that still doesn't quite take away from me from being amazed that my G. porteri is apparently prepared to fight me to the death.
 

BobGrill

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I've worked with ticked off cats too- Siberian Tigers

To the OP, can't speak for others here but if you have little experience and get a real monster of a T, get tagged and die, I don't care. Get whatever you want, you only have 1 life to live!

Technically speaking there are no documented cases of people who have died from a T. One could be allergic and die on the spot, like tree nuts.
Tigers have nothing on the domestic tabby.
 

LythSalicaria

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Oh yeah, ticked off cats are dangerous. They can get you no matter what you do, and forget about holding them, you can't avoid all their flailing pointy parts. Now granted I have a ton of dog experience, but I always tell people I would rather go in and deal with a big snarling Rottweiler before a 10lb cat with a bad attitude. Cats are great when they like you, but a nightmare if they don't.
+1 to this. Cats definitely have the potential to be dangerous - never mind all the complications that can arise from a bite from a cat, there is also the potential to contract Toxoplasmosis just from being scratched. The toxo bugs live in the cat's feces, then when the cat does its business and goes to bury it, they get trace amounts of the fecal matter embedded in their claws.

I've been working with cats all my life, I've rehabilitated more strays than I can count, and in that time I've taken only one serious bite. Let me tell you - I wouldn't want to repeat the experience. The psycho-kitty in question tried her very best to bite off my left index finger at the base - the hand was useless for a week, and stiff for nearly two months after it happened.

Back on topic - I'm glad to see that my thinking isn't coming entirely out of left field. Obviously practical experience with Ts is going to prepare you to deal with the more venomous species better than anything else, but so far it seems to be generally agreed upon that working with other dangerous animals can help you be mentally prepared for it.
 

cold blood

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I've worked with ticked off cats too- Siberian Tigers
The most impressive animal I ever laid hands on was a Siberian tiger. Seeing them at a distance doesn't do their size justice, they are immense animals with HUGE heads. Everything about these animals is larger than they appear! Literally their head/mouth is big enough to bite a human's head off in one motion (or so it appeared). My encounter occurred at the zoo I worked at, I was dropping off a large scale we had borrowed from the vet to weigh sea loins with. I casually backed into the room, turned around and to my shock, was face to face with an adult getting a physical. I must have turned white, because all the vets had a good chuckle at my response.

vet: Don't worry, its under anesthetic. Do you want to touch it?

me: Are you serious?

vet: Sure.

Then I reached out and "pet" the side of its cheek. As my hand neared its mouth its lips it curled its lips and growled. It was one of the most intimidating things I ever encountered, and the animal wasn't even awake. Absolutely primal! As soon as this happened I pulled away and the vets got yet another laugh at my expense.

That was enough "experience" for me, I was done with that cat and quickly left them to their exam. I'll never forget that.
 

darkness975

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Personally I treat every scorpion and tarantula that I own the same way I would treat the "hottest" species. This is one way I subconsciously remind myself to never get too complacent.
 

LythSalicaria

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Personally I treat every scorpion and tarantula that I own the same way I would treat the "hottest" species. This is one way I subconsciously remind myself to never get too complacent.
+1 to this. Safest way to do things in my opinion.
 

gobey

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Personally I treat every scorpion and tarantula that I own the same way I would treat the "hottest" species. This is one way I subconsciously remind myself to never get too complacent.
And that's probably the best way to do it. My G. porteri is without a doubt the most aggressive/defensive T I have. It doesn't really like anything doing anything in it's enclosure. And will fight and bite to the death it seems. She has a larger radius of "I'm ticked off" Than one of the adult OBTs I've seen.

Anyways I use tongs for everything. And I got some BIG tongs from Jamiestarantulas. Free shipping. I'll have some decently big Ts if this collection stays as is so I want to be ready. And I like to keep maintenance with my hands out of the enclosures at all times. The big tongs help for tall enclosures especially. I use turkey basters for the water dishes. I block the ones in thier hides when I can for big maintenance and cleaning.

I suppose I worry less around my Avic. But I keep him blocked off because he likes to explore sometimes even though he's pretty mellow. And the Eauthlus parvulus is very docile too, but still the point is to keep them inside the enclosure.
 
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