Why are some T's colorful?

CBickert · Oct 5, 2014

This is just a question out of curiosity, but why are some T's brightly colored?
I have seen thread on what is the most colorful T, but not reasons why.

Evolution over time has created them this way and it seemed to have worked but it's almost counterintuitive to survival, to me at least.

Certain specimens that come to mind are:

P. nigricolor
C. cyaneopubescens
A. versicolor
P. murinus

I would think that evolution would create T's that look more brownish/tan/black or perhaps greenish if they live in a forest area.

Reasons that come to mind are to serve as a warning to predators, mating, camouflage. BUT considering T's are nocturnal, and basically blind, what reasons come to mind?

Spepper · Oct 5, 2014

Well I know P. murinus packs some pretty nasty venom so I would assume that's why its coloration is the way it is. So everything that sees it in the wild and considers it a possible lunch sees its color too and steers clear. I remember hearing something somewhere about yellow and red being warning colors to predators meaning the animal was either poisonous if ingested or venomous. And orange is a combination of those two colors.

CBickert · Oct 5, 2014

Spepper said:
Well I know P. murinus packs some pretty nasty venom so I would assume that's why its coloration is the way it is. So everything that sees it in the wild and considers it a possible lunch sees its color too and steers clear. I remember hearing something somewhere about yellow and red being warning colors to predators meaning the animal was either poisonous if ingested or venomous. And orange is a combination of those two colors.

That would make sense to me as well, but unless it's a wandering mature male, I don't know how regularly they would be seen by predators.

I am in no way complaining as I can see their bright colors and enjoy them! I do think a bright orange T is oddly beautiful. Mine is just starting to get the orange coloration!

Arachnomaniac19 · Oct 5, 2014

Spepper said:
Well I know P. murinus packs some pretty nasty venom so I would assume that's why its coloration is the way it is. So everything that sees it in the wild and considers it a possible lunch sees its color too and steers clear. I remember hearing something somewhere about yellow and red being warning colors to predators meaning the animal was either poisonous if ingested or venomous. And orange is a combination of those two colors.

What about the normal colour form? I'm not to sure where they're found but I'd guess it's for camo.

CBickert · Oct 5, 2014

Arachnomaniac19 said:
What about the normal colour form? I'm not to sure where they're found but I'd guess it's for camo.

I'm not sure either, but camo I think would be the main reason for coloring and patterns. I guess I would have to see the natural habitat and context for it to make sense.

Fyrwulf · Oct 5, 2014

The thing you have to understand is not many animals share our range of color vision. If an animal doesn't have the capacity to see certain colors, then their visual centers process it as grayscale (or IR/UV if they have that capacity). In that respect their coloration is as good a camo as any coloration designed to blend in if viewed from human sight. On the other hand, in the animal world anything colorful enough to stick out and survive is too dangerous to mess with, so any predator that can process the relevant colors are going to avoid brightly colored Ts unless they're desperate for a meal. Finally, a third factor is that Ts are generally nocturnal and black is often the worst possible camouflage to use at night, which is why species that are pure black are vastly outnumbered by species that are very dark shades of blue, purple, red, etc.

CBickert · Oct 5, 2014

Fyrwulf said:
The thing you have to understand is not many animals share our range of color vision. If an animal doesn't have the capacity to see certain colors, then their visual centers process it as grayscale (or IR/UV if they have that capacity). In that respect their coloration is as good a camo as any coloration designed to blend in if viewed from human sight. On the other hand, in the animal world anything colorful enough to stick out and survive is too dangerous to mess with, so any predator that can process the relevant colors are going to avoid brightly colored Ts unless they're desperate for a meal. Finally, a third factor is that Ts are generally nocturnal and black is often the worst possible camouflage to use at night, which is why species that are pure black are vastly outnumbered by species that are very dark shades of blue, purple, red, etc.

Very very interesting points! Thanks for this information.

Poec54 · Oct 5, 2014

Whether it's for prey or predator, the last thing tarantulas want to look like is a spider. Some do this by blending in with their surroundings dorsally, which is why many have black or brown colors to match soils. Orange T's blend in on red clay. I strongly suspect the 3 color forms of P murinus each match the soils in their ranges.

Others adopt the strategy of having different colors and markings on each body section: carapace, abdomen and legs, so they don't look like they're all connected to the same animal, or even an animal at all. The pink tarsi on many Avics help them resemble flower petals and small bromeliads. The markings of Poecs blend in with tree bark. OW's often have abdominal patterns (that follow the heart attachment muscles) and those tend to give the impression that they're not part of the spider (at least while it's at rest). Few NW's have those, as the majority have urticating hairs, and abdominal markings go away as the hairs are kicked off.

Ventral colors are primarily seen only when the spider is standing in a threat pose (to be able to use it's fangs and to appear larger). In that situation, colors and markings are part of the warning. Every tarantula I've owned has had iridescent scopulae and red mouth parts; possibly they all do. Some genera also have vivid colors and markings on the underside of their front 4 legs, such as Poecilotheria and Ceratogyrus. These are employed when they stand up, letting intruders know that if you approach them, they will hurt you. In combination with these, some stridulate using stiff bristles on their chelicerae, and the insides of their palps and front legs. A multi-media presentation for intruders. They do their best to let you know what you're in for.

CBickert · Oct 5, 2014

Poec54 said:
Whether it's for prey or predator, the last thing tarantulas want to look like is a spider. Some do this by blending in with their surroundings dorsally, which is why many have black or brown colors to match soils. Orange T's blend in on red clay. I strongly suspect the 3 color forms of P murinus each match the soils in their ranges.

Others adopt the strategy of having different colors and markings on each body section: carapace, abdomen and legs, so they don't look like they're all connected to the same animal, or even an animal at all. The pink tarsi on many Avics help them resemble flower petals and small bromeliads. The markings of Poecs blend in with tree bark. OW's often have abdominal patterns (that follow the heart attachment muscles) and those tend to give the impression that they're not part of the spider (at least while it's at rest). Few NW's have those, as the majority have urticating hairs, and abdominal markings go away as the hairs are kicked off.

Ventral colors are primarily seen only when the spider is standing in a threat pose (to be able to use it's fangs and to appear larger). In that situation, colors and markings are part of the warning. Every tarantula I've owned has had iridescent scopulae and red mouth parts; possibly they all do. Some genera also have vivid colors and markings on the underside of their front 4 legs, such as Poecilotheria and Ceratogyrus. These are employed when they stand up, letting intruders know that if you approach them, they will hurt you. In combination with these, some stridulate using stiff bristles on their chelicerae, and the insides of their palps and front legs. A multi-media presentation for intruders. They do their best to let you know what you're in for.

Awesome! Thanks Poec. It sounds like you have answered this question before. Lol
And I was thinking there was a relationship between the Avics and a flower or bromeliads.
Pretty neat stuff this evolution thing huh?

Poec54 · Oct 5, 2014

CBickert said:
Awesome! Thanks Poec. It sounds like you have answered this question before. Lol
And I was thinking there was a relationship between the Avics and a flower or bromeliads.
Pretty neat stuff this evolution thing huh?

Crab spiders are the same color of the flowers they live in, why can't tarantulas mimic that a little bit? Maybe that's why some T's have bright colors, to be confused with flowers or fruit. There's probably a lot of tarantula colors and markings that would be clarified if could observe them in the wild.

Having seen my Idiothele slings in action, I think their bright blue tarsi are possibly lures. They are one of the few tarantulas that make trap doors. They sit inside, with the lid cracked open, and only their bright, blue feet sticking out. When an insect approaches, they rush out, grab it, and pull it back inside. Was the insect thinking the blue color was possibly tasty fruit or a flower?

BobGrill · Oct 5, 2014

GBBs are very brightly colored and yet they have relatively weak venom.

Poec54 · Oct 5, 2014

BobGrill said:
GBBs are very brightly colored and yet they have relatively weak venom.

So do king snakes and scarlet snakes that mimic coral snakes. Sometimes just looking like something else that's dangerous is enough. Chromatopelma are also inside a lot of webbing, where their colors aren't as obvious. Maybe there's blue flowers/fruit where they live, that they blend in with. That's why I said we need to see them in habitat, to see how all the pieces fit together.

Arachnomaniac19 · Oct 5, 2014

Makes me wonder what the point of having a mirror patch is.

Spepper · Oct 5, 2014

CBickert said:
Pretty neat stuff this evolution thing huh?

Evolution within kinds is the only kind man has ever observed and ever will.

Poec54 · Oct 5, 2014

Arachnomaniac19 said:
Makes me wonder what the point of having a mirror patch is.

Obviously has a function. Maybe it' just something else that makes an abdomen look like it's not part of the head and legs, and therefore not a complete spider. Since NW's with urticating hairs rarely have abdominal patterns, maybe a mirror patch is as close as they get to that. A visual distraction.

cold blood · Oct 5, 2014

Poec54 said:
Crab spiders are the same color of the flowers they live in, why can't tarantulas mimic that a little bit? QUOTE]

In a nutshell I think this is the best answer. Look at P. irminia, in an enclosure they look striking, even loud with all the orange...yet in places they are native to, they blend in with the orange/red shades of the dirt/clay that's natural to their native environment. Here's a quote from "Tarantulas and other Arachnids on this subject concerning P. irminia:

"I have seen suntiger tarantulas living in silken retreats along road banks in southern Venezuela near the Brazilian border. At the time, I was struck with how closely the red marks of the spider matched the red of the earth"

Different locals not only have foliage often unique to their areas, but also many different kinds as well as shades of soil components, from blacks and greys, to all shades of brown and orange to red to yellow. The earth can be nearly as wide ranging in color as the t's that inhabit them.

dredrickt · Oct 6, 2014

Poec54 said:
Crab spiders are the same color of the flowers they live in, why can't tarantulas mimic that a little bit? Maybe that's why some T's have bright colors, to be confused with flowers or fruit. There's probably a lot of tarantula colors and markings that would be clarified if could observe them in the wild.

Having seen my Idiothele slings in action, I think their bright blue tarsi are possibly lures. They are one of the few tarantulas that make trap doors. They sit inside, with the lid cracked open, and only their bright, blue feet sticking out. When an insect approaches, they rush out, grab it, and pull it back inside. Was the insect thinking the blue color was possibly tasty fruit or a flower?

This makes the most sense. Bringing up the mimicking thing reminded me of a video posted on youtube, (I think by DTG), where she had a mature male P. Rufilata outside and it was swaying 3 of its legs in the air mimicking grass blowing in the wind. Since it was presumably in search of a mate, that was a fascinating behavior to blend in.

Poec54 · Oct 6, 2014

dredrickt said:
This makes the most sense. Bringing up the mimicking thing reminded me of a video posted on youtube, (I think by DTG), where she had a mature male P. Rufilata outside and it was swaying 3 of its legs in the air mimicking grass blowing in the wind. Since it was presumably in search of a mate, that was a fascinating behavior to blend in.

Interesting. I've noticed some of my Avics will attach their boluses to their silk sheet/tube, and let it dangle in the air. Could that be a possible lure for moths and flying insects? Avics are very adept at catching airborne prey. Example: I was feeding my spiders and had an Avic upside down on the top of it's cage. I lifted the top just enough to be able to throw a cricket in there. The spider caught it as it went by, and didn't lose it's footing. Incredible reflexes.

cold blood · Oct 6, 2014

dredrickt said:
a mature male P. Rufilata outside and it was swaying 3 of its legs in the air mimicking grass blowing in the wind. Since it was presumably in search of a mate, that was a fascinating behavior to blend in.

I would think this is more feeding behavior. Perfect position if a hapless insect tried to land on them or fly by too close (imitating innocent leaves, and even sticks are not really uncommon for predators), 3 legs are plenty enough to subdue most unsuspecting insects. In fact this position is basically the same position a tick (a fellow arachnid) uses to await an unsuspecting host, makes it very easy to grab the host and hitch a ride, and t's are quite a bit quicker.

My Avics also seem to "hang" its bolus' in bits of webbing as well....very interesting theory, as the waste would likely attract certain insects and they are more than capable of making a leaping kill, which is always an impressive thing to witness.

viper69 · Oct 11, 2014

CBickert said:
This is just a question out of curiosity, but why are some T's brightly colored?

Congrats, you asked a question for which no one can answer. Have fun!

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