Substrate questions

Hey guys! I'm looking to get into millipedes, and I've bought Orin McMonigle's book and have been researching online, but I haven't been able to find answers for these questions.

For the food portion of the substrate I'm going to start out by buying the premade mix from Bugsincyberspace, but I'd like to be able to make my own to save money. I have family that cuts down trees for our county, so I have access to the proper hardwoods and leaves. What would be the best way of decaying it for food?

Also, is there a proper way to store excess substrate for later use?

Those two are good sources of information and substrate.

Since you have access...when I find partially decomposing or fallen hardwood I keep it in a sealed plastic bin, wet. It grows mushrooms and mulches quite well. Obviously, the sawdust that you could collect from downing trees will decompose faster.

Some people sterilize their substrate, some don't. I suppose it depends on your level of paranoia

Cavedweller posted a sticky thread here about millipede care, and I have a care sheet on my website. You may want to look at those to get a bit more information :shrug:

Thanks for the input!

SDCPs - I have read both the book and the caresheet, but neither of those questions were addressed. It does mention scavenging for already rotted wood and leaves but I don't trust myself to pick the right stuff and I'd rather be able to have a consistent source right there instead of having to hunt for it. I could always just dump the wood in the backyard and let it sit, but I'm curious if there are any tips to speed it up

If you want to decompose the wood, mulching it and putting it in a compost pile outside is probably the best way. Wood and leaves are obviously going to decompose a lot faster with all the bacteria, fungus and insects able to get at it outside (or in a tub inside, like zonbonzovi, during the wintertime) . My recommendation is to compost it and then when you want to use it for you millipedes, pasteurize it as some people have described here on the site and elsewhere. That will take care of any insects, spiders, and mites and things, but should leave a good portion of the microbiome intact. Remember, millipedes are soil dwelling detritivores and they spend most of their lives rooting around under leaves and logs with all the other members of the forest floor decomposers. I'm of the opinion that its probably better if there is a more diverse microcosm of micro organisms in their enclosure. If your that concerned about fungus or other things getting out of hand, you could try putting some springtails in the enclosures. Their a little spooky at first, but you get use to them fast. Personally, I would focus more on the leaves then the rotting wood if you want to make your own mix. In regards to storing the substrate, the only way you could stop the decomposition once it gets going is to completely sterilize it (i.e. bake it to death in the oven) or put it plastic bags and freeze it. People might think you're a little strange for putting bags of rotting leaves and wood in the freezers, but then again they'd probably think it stranger to be collecting millipedes in the first place, lol.

Oh, and welcome to the hobby! Its always good to see more people taking an interest in millies.

If it means anything, I don't use rotting materials. I use oak leaves that are dry and brown but they don't rot because southern California is dry and brown, haha!

My leaves are dried out too, even before I put them in the oven, but that's because I keep them in the warm, dry basement of my apartment building. I guess that doesn't say much about the weather there in Southern Cal.

Yeah, mine are dry and brown when I collect. I don't think I could get rotting materials if I tried. Wish I had a basement!

I recently collected a bunch of rotting oak, dry oak leaves, and oak leaf litter from our backyard, which has a huge old oak tree way in back. The rotting wood already had LOTS of residents, from pill bugs to centipedes, worms, slugs, tiny native millipedes, etc...

My question to those of you who don't pasteurize is whether or not any of the other creepy-crawlers might be somehow harmful to the pedes. In the past I baked everything I collected, but I'd rather not if it's not necessary.

I've never added anything straight from the woods to my enclosures. Even the one or two times I skipped pasteurizing, the wood and leaves had been sitting in a hot dry basement for months, so there wasn't much left alive in there. Personally, I doubt that there are many things in the natural microfauna that would go after a large millipede. Compared to most of the stuff that lives in the leaf litter, giant millipedes (3+ inches) are basically land whales. From what I've read, the primary predators of millipedes are rodents, birds, lizards, etc. I'd imagine the biggest risk you'd run by leaving the creepy crawlies in is bringing in some sort of parasitic mite. The real problem is that no matter how hard you try, an enclosure isn't not going to properly reproduce the microenvironment of the forest floor (your going from an open system to a closed system). So, certain more hardy organisms (fungus gnats, isopods, mites, springtails) are going to quickly take over and dominant the microfauna. Now, whether that would be a bad thing for the millipede is a good question. I personally think it would be an interesting experiment to set up an enclosure that's basically just a piece of transplanted forest floor and see how millipedes would fair in it. Unfortunately, most pedes are a little too expensive to risk them for that sort of experiment.

CrawlinChaos said:

I've never added anything straight from the woods to my enclosures. Even the one or two times I skipped pasteurizing, the wood and leaves had been sitting in a hot dry basement for months, so there wasn't much left alive in there. Personally, I doubt that there are many things in the natural microfauna that would go after a large millipede. Compared to most of the stuff that lives in the leaf litter, giant millipedes (3+ inches) are basically land whales. From what I've read, the primary predators of millipedes are rodents, birds, lizards, etc. I'd imagine the biggest risk you'd run by leaving the creepy crawlies in is bringing in some sort of parasitic mite. The real problem is that no matter how hard you try, an enclosure isn't not going to properly reproduce the microenvironment of the forest floor (your going from an open system to a closed system). So, certain more hardy organisms (fungus gnats, isopods, mites, springtails) are going to quickly take over and dominant the microfauna. Now, whether that would be a bad thing for the millipede is a good question. I personally think it would be an interesting experiment to set up an enclosure that's basically just a piece of transplanted forest floor and see how millipedes would fair in it. Unfortunately, most pedes are a little too expensive to risk them for that sort of experiment.

Click to expand...

Unless you happen to have baby pedes

But pedelings are way too cute to risk that way!

Maybe you could set up a big tub of moist cocofiber and pieces of the wood/leaves you harvest? Seeding it with springtails might be a good idea too. If you do this, please keep track of the decomposition rate, that'd be very handy to know for future use!

lagomorphette said:

My question to those of you who don't pasteurize is whether or not any of the other creepy-crawlers might be somehow harmful to the pedes. In the past I baked everything I collected, but I'd rather not if it's not necessary.

Click to expand...

My personal fear is nematodes, after seeing what they can do to centipedes. I have no idea if they pose the same threat to millipedes but I don't wanna find out the hard way.

CrawlinChaos said:

But pedelings are way too cute to risk that way!

Click to expand...

You must turn a blind eye....."for science!"

I ordered some B. lecontii, which were wild caught, last week, and got a generous bunch. My bucket of collected materials has sat outside for the past couple weeks, and there were notably fewer residents in it when I checked it last night. I opted to mix coco coir with my "local mix" (sandy leaf litter + rotting wood & dry oak leaves) to make a substrate for the newcomers. I'm curious to see how they like it.

Exactly the info I was looking for - thanks folks! Once winter passes I'll try experimenting with the wood and leaves, and if I find out anything useful I'll be sure to share it

I just recently got to pick up my first pede, an orthoporus ornatus which I believe is a female. We'll have to see how I do and then step it up

edit: also, found out McMonigle created an updated version of his book in 2012. I bought the 2005 version...d'oh.