Negative effects of a big terrarium on a tarantula?

Hello people, I'm Michael and new to the board (as a poster, long-time sporadic reader). My introductory post is here: http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/sho...uce-Yourself&p=2330060&viewfull=1#post2330060

Now to my question. I want to get my first tarantula as soon as I move to an apartment that allows arachnids. It's still months away, maybe even a year, but I like planning. I want to make a terrarium that is both a suitable enclosure and beautiful to look at. I want it to be as faithful a re-creation of my tarantula's natural habitat as possible, using only local plants, and trying to come up with a good substrate solution.

I am planning on getting a Brachypelma boehmei, because the region I would like to try to re-create is the scrublands of Mexico, like parts of the Sonoran desert. This is sort of what I am going for, except with less rocks, no spiky succulents and more flowers, to represent a slightly more humid part of the desert: http://www.frogforum.net/attachment...ium-558087_10100376559688299_1584928647_n.jpg

Because I want this to be a display piece as much as a good enclosure for my tarantula, I want to ask this: why do so many people say that tarantulas dislike large enclosures? Surely if it was a really big problem they would have died out millions of years ago, since there are no walls in nature. I understand that my tarantula will most likely make a burrow and never venture far from, but is there any proven disadvantage for the tarantula to have lots of space?

I was thinking about a tank 90x40x40 cm (35.4" x 15.7" x 15.7"), since that would allow me to place plants in a pleasing manner, have plenty of open space for some succulents (aloe, echeveria and agave), flowers (rattlesnake weed, sand pygmy weed and scorpionweed), deadwood and a few patches of desert grass. The substrate would be 7-8" deep.

It makes it very hard for them to find their prey and tarantulas usually don't settle in well in oversized enclosures.

What about when the tarantula is in the wild? I know people will say that they are captive bred and used to being in enclosures just big enough but I mean what would ACTUALLY happen? I think the T would pick a spot, make a web for even more comfort, and settle there for a while until you cleaned its enclosure. I dont own any T's right now (only roaches and a couple of scorpions) but I think it would make sense. I like the idea of a larger enclosure so that the T would have to hunt down the prey. What do you think?

I have never understood the "it will make finding prey harder' argument to this. I have never seen anyone go to feed there tarantula and put the food as far away from it as possible. I could understand if everyone did that but no one really does that. They usually drop the food in front of its face. The tarantula will just pick a hide and use it, I wouldn't put the water dish on the opposite side of the enclosure though. The only real thing to keep in mind is to have enough substrate, other than that, there should be no issues.

Biollantefan54 said:

I have never understood the "it will make finding prey harder' argument to this. I have never seen anyone go to feed there tarantula and put the food as far away from it as possible. I could understand if everyone did that but no one really does that. They usually drop the food in front of its face. The tarantula will just pick a hide and use it, I wouldn't put the water dish on the opposite side of the enclosure though. The only real thing to keep in mind is to have enough substrate, other than that, there should be no issues.

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I never seen a T stressed of a too large cage, I got my 7" Lp in a 20gallon long it loves roaming at night. Slings do need a small cage though, remember that:biggrin: Might lose track of were it go's in a huge oversized tank. Adults however you aren't going to lose.

RomanBuck said:

What about when the tarantula is in the wild? I know people will say that they are captive bred and used to being in enclosures just big enough but I mean what would ACTUALLY happen? I think the T would pick a spot, make a web for even more comfort, and settle there for a while until you cleaned its enclosure. I dont own any T's right now (only roaches and a couple of scorpions) but I think it would make sense. I like the idea of a larger enclosure so that the T would have to hunt down the prey. What do you think?

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They're ambush predators. They wait for prey to come to them.

I can speak from experience that both sides of this argument have some merit. On one hand, the spider will certainly not be "stressed out" by a large enclosure, it doesn't know it's in a large enclosure. It will likely settle down in a particular part of the tank, and gradually start exploring as it feels more and more comfortable, expanding its original burrow as it grows. You will probably be able to see the tell-tale spider signs in the tank and can find it that way--although it probably won't venture too far from the original release site, especially if you introduce it near a suitable retreat. It's easy to follow the logical spider path to the next hiding spot and locate the little guy if he or she does wander.

"Target" feeding is easy as well and if you watch closely you can more or less ensure that the sling eats--BobGrill is correct though, you will not get much hunting out of a small spiderling or even an adult, you will need to more or less drop the prey item right by it to get a response and you will need to be more hands on, i.e. wounding the prey, herding it back towards the spider, etc. A planted tank will have lots of escape routes for a cricket or roach, so you'll have to be more diligent in your cleaning and you may even need to overfeed just slightly to ensure the spider is coming across enough food. You will probably also want to do microfauna.

Sounds like a great idea though! Post updates as you execute the project! It might be interesting to observe a more natural "homesteading" behavior, if it exists.

BobGrill said:

They're ambush predators. They wait for prey to come to them.

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Yeah so true , Any size cage works as long as food comes to them. Issue is B dubia slings they love burrowing too much. Lots of Ts will dig them out though. My King baboon loves them they dig to it , end up its meal.

I have not had a problem with an enclosure being too large for any one of my ts. I keep the cages larger than necessary on everything but slings smaller than 1 inch. I do drop food in the most convenient locations as well.

BobGrill said:

It makes it very hard for them to find their prey and tarantulas usually don't settle in well in oversized enclosures.

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I would have to strongly oppose this view for the sake of new comers to the hobby. This is simply my opinion, based on my experiences. I find that cb inverts kept in deli cups or smaller enclosures take longer to adjust to larger enclosures, yet I have never seen one fail to thrive. Though many if not most now are CB, they aren't handed crickets on a regular basis in the wild and aside from predation, disease, disaster seem to manage.

I personally like to keep my inverts in vivarium as close as I can manage to their native habitat within reason. I don't think my methods provide a measurable benefit over a basic steralite container, I prefer the aesthetics and overall satisfaction that the enclosure is inline with the areas they are found in nature. On the flop side keeping inverts in smaller containers is far more convenient, organized, and can lend to more space for more inverts. It real
Y is up to personal preference within reason.

Nich said:

I would have to strongly oppose this view for the sake of new comers to the hobby. This is simply my opinion, based on my experiences. I find that cb inverts kept in deli cups or smaller enclosures take longer to adjust to larger enclosures, yet I have never seen one fail to thrive. Though many if not most now are CB, they aren't handed crickets on a regular basis in the wild and aside from predation, disease, disaster seem to manage.

I personally like to keep my inverts in vivarium as close as I can manage to their native habitat within reason. I don't think my methods provide a measurable benefit over a basic steralite container, I prefer the aesthetics and overall satisfaction that the enclosure is inline with the areas they are found in nature. On the flop side keeping inverts in smaller containers is far more convenient, organized, and can lend to more space for more inverts. It real
Y is up to personal preference within reason.

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I agree, but I have seen so many YouTube videos where the tarantulas are kept in containers barely larger than their leg span, and I think I can understand why: these people without exception have a LOT of tarantulas. Of course you can't set up a new 24"x18"x18" ExoTerra for every tarantula if you have 50 of them, unless you are very rich and live in a very big house.

I have even watched feeding videos from some VERY prominent names in the hobby where EVERY SINGLE WATER DISH in the video has been empty and/or filled with dirt, which I can understand - if you have 100+ sub-adult/adult tarantulas it's going to take at least 60 x 100 seconds = 1 hour and 45 minutes a day to clean them out and refill them, if you're REALLY quick about it.

When I enter this hobby I will definitely go for quality over quantity, not so much for my sake as for my tarantulas sake.

I will always choose quality over quantity for the simple quality part. I would much rather have 55 happy Ts in large, nice cages than 155 in small cages. Just my two cents.

I don't think it is a "bad" idea. Like others have said you have to make sure it eats, since in the wild there are a lot more critters out there likely to wander by at some point VS the single cricket or roach you throw in per week in captivity. Aside from making sure it eats and not hiding the water dish where it can't be found easily I don't see any problem with a large and aesthetically pleasing enclosure.

Post pics whenever you do get it set up!

Ashton said:

I will always choose quality over quantity for the simple quality part. I would much rather have 55 happy Ts in large, nice cages than 155 in small cages. Just my two cents.

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Heck, I'd rather have 10 T's in big opulent cages than over a hundred in small ones. Seeing a pretty spider is one thing, seeing a pretty spider in a beautiful location is quite another.

Tarantulas are not limited in space in the wild. You can avoid problems with them finding their food by tong feeding them. Just make sure the T isn't a terrestrial with a bad habit of climbing or make sure there isn't a big risk of fall damage.

I kept my 4" A. chalcodes in a 20g long that was setup similar to the picture you showed. But with some red sandstone and more dry grasses and cholla skeletons than live plants. It just dug a burrow under one of the rocks and I would drop the crickets near the burrow. Spider was doing great then had a bad molt and died on me. But I don't believe the enclosure had anything to do with the molt. One thing to keep in mind is a tank like that will be very hard to clean. Honestly the only cleaning I could do in mine was to wash off the front glass and clean out the water dish.