New Orange Baboon motionaless even when touched...please help!

loughrey101

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Hi Guys, I'm just after getting an OBT in the mail today and when I took her out she was very defensive and fast, once she left her strike position she ran up to the ceiling and has been there not moving ever since, that has been about 5 or 6 hours ago. I tried poking it with a soft paint brush and there is no reaction from her, it's like she is frozen. Is that normal? She's curled up there like she's sleeping but it seems there is a slight reflex when her legs are moved, but not easy to tell there is even life in her. Is that normal? Should I be worried? Her temperature in over 75 degrees and her humidity is low with a bone dry home. Seems strange that she was full of life when I took her out and now she won't react.
 

ARACHNO-SMACK48

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She's stressed plain and simple. Leave her alone. She may still be in shock from being shipped. Just leave her alone for a week and then if she isn't moving there may be something wrong. Also.. I hope you mean the ceiling part of her enclosure....
 

tonypace2009

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I hope you are referring to the ceiling in her enclosure not the ceiling of your house . Give it a few days let her settle she will eventually start exploring her enclosure and hopefully find a spot to find home.
 

loughrey101

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Thanks guys, I was just concerned as she hasn't moved in the last few hours, normally a T will pace the enclosure for awhile before they settle. It is the ceiling of the enclosure yes. I moved her leg with a soft brush and there was no reaction at all. Considering how she almost jumped on me with a defensive posture a few hours ago and now won't even react if her leg is moved seems really strange, right? It's like she is playing dead, quite literally. For such a fearsome and fast species as the OBT, I'm concerned as I've never heard of that behaviour from an OBT of all T's. I'm just really concerned as I want to know if she is okay and that it's only frozen with shock. The reason I am concerned is not that she is not moving from her spot, but that she isn't reacting when I touch her or move her leg. She is just cuddled up on the glass in the corner. If someone has heard of that behaviour with a new T, especially an OBT, please let me know. I couldn't have done anything wrong in the space of 5 hours. She is on pure vermiculite at the moment as her peat moss is not dry enough to be introduced. Her humidity is at about 50% - 60% and her temperature near the ceiling area is about 70 degrees while the ground temperature is about 76 degrees.
 
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cold blood

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Thanks guys, I was just concerned as she hasn't moved in the last few hours, normally a T will pace the enclosure for awhile before they settle. It is the ceiling of the enclosure yes. I moved her leg with a soft brush and there was no reaction at all. Considering how she almost jumped on me with a defensive posture a few hours ago and now won't even react if her leg is moved seems really strange, right? It's like she is playing dead, quite literally. For such a fearsome and fast species as the OBT, I'm concerned as I've never heard of that behaviour from an OBT of all T's. I'm just really concerned as I want to know if she is okay and that it's only frozen with shock. The reason I am concerned is not that she is not moving from her spot, but that she isn't reacting when I touch her or move her leg. She is just cuddled up on the glass in the corner. If someone has heard of that behaviour with a new T, especially an OBT, please let me know. I couldn't have done anything wrong in the space of 5 hours. She is on pure vermiculite at the moment as her peat moss is not dry enough to be introduced. Her humidity is at about 50% - 60% and her temperature near the ceiling area is about 70 degrees while the ground temperature is about 76 degrees.
When I receive a t, I have never had one just pace the cage. They either settle very quickly, or do exactly what yours is doing. Its perfectly normal, just leave it alone in a quiet place. Some spend days, or weeks up there cuddled in a corner, but they all come down eventually if the enclosure is set up well. My G. pulchripes spent nearly 2 weeks like this. My N. chromatus spent a day or so. B. smithi spend a few hours up there last re-house. A. ezendami was up there a good week, too. You're all good, no worries.:)

DO NOT "move her leg", don't touch her, don't blow on her...just leave her acclimate.

Just having vermiculite isn't really a good substrate. The species, while preferring dry, can tolerate just about anything, and if the sub is just damp, like from the bag, use it, that's not a big deal. If you had to re-constitute a brick, just spread it out or gently heat it on the oven. Unless its actually wet, you can go ahead and use it.

Temps just need to be high 60's, and 70 is just fine, so there's basically little reason to concern yourself with temps unless its very small, and as you call it "her", I assume its a female, either an adult or juvie. Judging by the top vs. bottom temps I assume you are heating it from below? If so, by what means?

You mention humidity being 50-60%...Do you have a hygrometer reading humidity for an OBT enclosure? If you do, take it back, humidity is of zero concern with the species, just make sure you have a water dish available.

Things are easier than you are making things out to be...simplify.

Do you have any pics of the set-up?
 

loughrey101

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When I receive a t, I have never had one just pace the cage. They either settle very quickly, or do exactly what yours is doing. Its perfectly normal, just leave it alone in a quiet place. Some spend days, or weeks up there cuddled in a corner, but they all come down eventually if the enclosure is set up well. My G. pulchripes spent nearly 2 weeks like this. My N. chromatus spent a day or so. B. smithi spend a few hours up there last re-house. A. ezendami was up there a good week, too. You're all good, no worries.:)

DO NOT "move her leg", don't touch her, don't blow on her...just leave her acclimate.

Just having vermiculite isn't really a good substrate. The species, while preferring dry, can tolerate just about anything, and if the sub is just damp, like from the bag, use it, that's not a big deal. If you had to re-constitute a brick, just spread it out or gently heat it on the oven. Unless its actually wet, you can go ahead and use it.

Temps just need to be high 60's, and 70 is just fine, so there's basically little reason to concern yourself with temps unless its very small, and as you call it "her", I assume its a female, either an adult or juvie. Judging by the top vs. bottom temps I assume you are heating it from below? If so, by what means?

You mention humidity being 50-60%...Do you have a hygrometer reading humidity for an OBT enclosure? If you do, take it back, humidity is of zero concern with the species, just make sure you have a water dish available.

Things are easier than you are making things out to be...simplify.

Do you have any pics of the set-up?
Thanks very much for your detailed reply Cold Blooded, I really want to do my best for this one and don't want to screw up. You say it's normal that they stay in a place for days, but is it normal that they act like they are dead there and literally don't react if you move their leg like there is no life in them at all? Never heard of an animal behaving like that, especially not a T. It's not the staying cuddled in the corner I worry about but that she doesn't react if you move her leg at all. I don't like to move her leg, I did it a few times because I was really trying to see some indication of life but I can't, she's just up there and won't move. I can't imagine something happened to her in 5 hours from when she went up there but it's pretty strange and it's hard to know if she is dead or alive.

Yes, it's supposed to be a two year old female so she would be an adult.

I don't intend on keeping just vermiculite, I was planning on getting it out once the peat moss was ready and replace it with the peat. She arrived sooner than expected and I hhadn't the peat moss dried out today so used vermiculite which I had from my Rosie who hated the stuff. So it's out of necessity right now.

My enclosure is very basic at the moment, I've ordered more bits and pieces. But it's basically an exo terra glass terrarium 10 gallon with a 3D background that's great for climbing. It has a half flower pot to be used as a hide, though I'll be using the half log soon. Then I have a small water dish with bottled water, and that's about it for the moment.

I mentioned humidity because I hear they need very low humidity and here in Ireland it is naturally high, in the 70s and 80s. I was led to believe high humidity can kill an OBT.
I haven't had any chance to take any pics of the enclosure, but it's very basic at the moment with just the basic essentials.
 

Enn49

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105
Enjoy it while you can. Mine was out and about for the first month or two but since she completed her web cave I've only seen small flashes of orange for the last 6 months.

This is all I ever see lol.
 

cold blood

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Thanks very much for your detailed reply Cold Blooded, I really want to do my best for this one and don't want to screw up. You say it's normal that they stay in a place for days, but is it normal that they act like they are dead there and literally don't react if you move their leg like there is no life in them at all? Never heard of an animal behaving like that, especially not a T. It's not the staying cuddled in the corner I worry about but that she doesn't react if you move her leg at all. I don't like to move her leg, I did it a few times because I was really trying to see some indication of life but I can't, she's just up there and won't move. I can't imagine something happened to her in 5 hours from when she went up there but it's pretty strange and it's hard to know if she is dead or alive.

Yes, it's supposed to be a two year old female so she would be an adult.

I don't intend on keeping just vermiculite, I was planning on getting it out once the peat moss was ready and replace it with the peat. She arrived sooner than expected and I hhadn't the peat moss dried out today so used vermiculite which I had from my Rosie who hated the stuff. So it's out of necessity right now.

My enclosure is very basic at the moment, I've ordered more bits and pieces. But it's basically an exo terra glass terrarium 10 gallon with a 3D background that's great for climbing. It has a half flower pot to be used as a hide, though I'll be using the half log soon. Then I have a small water dish with bottled water, and that's about it for the moment.

I mentioned humidity because I hear they need very low humidity and here in Ireland it is naturally high, in the 70s and 80s. I was led to believe high humidity can kill an OBT.
I haven't had any chance to take any pics of the enclosure, but it's very basic at the moment with just the basic essentials.
I couldn't say if its normal, because I have never touched or moved a stressed out t. I'd imagine it would remain motionless, but know it could still explode and escape or even tag you.

Your enclosure sounds like you set it up arboreal. I'd give it a terrestrial enclosure with good amount of sub and some ground plants to climb on if its so inclined.

If your sub is dry, it will be just fine. I've never heard of humidity warnings for an OBT, they're pretty much known to be bullet-proof. You're over-thinking the humidity. In most places I would suggest a large dish, but because of your location a small one will be fine. I live in an area that is insanely humid May-September, the only thing I notice with my "dry" species is that water lasts longer before the dish is dry. OBT is hardy as he double hockey sticks, your location will NOT hamper its existence.:biggrin:

---------- Post added 11-21-2014 at 04:42 PM ----------

Ooooh enn, I think I see it! :geek:
 

sezra

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Apr 23, 2012
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never understood why people feel the need to prod and poke their T's. leave them be and they'll be fine.
 

Enn49

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Ooooh enn, I think I see it! :geek:
She must have sensed me writing about her as she's showing a tiny bit of leg again now and that's the first I've seen of her since I took that pic a month ago. I know she comes out when I'm not around as she leaves substrate in her water bowl quite often and I know she's moulted at some point as she cleaned her cave out a few weeks ago and there were bits of exo mixed in.
 

loughrey101

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thanks very much guys for all the valuable input! So it's normal for them not to move or react even when they are gently poked? I decided earlier to move her leg to a certain position so I could go back later and see if there was a change in the position and sure enough it was out wide and when I came back 2 hours later it was moved back to the original spot under her belly, indicating that she must have moved it in that time. Hasn't moved since and I'm afraid to annoy her anymore, but I really hope it's just her frozen with fear though I never would have thought a species like the OBT with a fearless reputation wouldn't curl up in a ball and let anything poke it. I'm going to post pictures of my set up and and photo of the OBT and where she is.

The set up as I said is basic at the moment as I'm trying to dry out the damp peat which would only make the humidity skyrocket given that we already have high humidity here in Ireland as it is and it would turn her environment from desert to tropical. I have ordered a bunch of vines and plants from Ebay so I'm waiting on them to arrive. I'm also ordering dry moss to great a more natural look, and of course I'll be adding the peat moss on top of that for a deeper substrate once it dries.

The reason I am anal about this OBT and worried so much is because I had a Rosie for about 3 months and only last week she died for no obvious reason. She was very active up to the day she died, eating one to two locusts every week until the week she died when she didn't accept the locoust, which he has done the rare time. She was doing her climbing, her abdomen looked healthy and round, the temperature was a good 75 degrees with thermostat and humidity about 65-75 which was basically more the natural Irish humidity rather than any controlled humidity. I wasn't using a ceramic heater from August to September but as the weather got very cold here and since our house isn't very warm, I used a thermostat controlled ceramic heater above the enclosure to maintain a temperature of about 75. I have tried the heat mat to the side and it basically let off very little heat through the glass, only raising it no more than 3 degrees in the region closest to the heat matt as full power with an Exo Terra tropical heat mat. So that wasn't good enough for my cold house. But anyways I don't know what happened, I thought they were hardier than that but seems like I'm not having much beginner's luck in the hooby and it's putting me off a little. I have kept snakes for years and despite their high maintenance I've never had issues of any dying on me. I was led to believe Ts are hardier and lower maintenance with few requirements, with many of them being able to live in room temperature for most of the seasons. 2014-11-22 02.57.43.jpg 2014-11-22 02.58.46.jpg 2014-11-22 02.58.32.jpg
 
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loughrey101

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She will adjust , Some of my OBT live more aboreally also.
Thanks mate, it wasn't the aboreal nature that worried me, it was that when I moved her leg she didn't react and appeared dead with no life in her. I thought she was dead or something because she was full of life earlier. I have a photo of her I took earlier today when I took her out and she was full of life and ready to pounce on me, now she won't even react when I poke her.
 

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Ultum4Spiderz

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They do that , other times they want to be left alone. I would not provoke a OBT no matter how pet rock like they act , I touched my female obt once and got no response(dont do this ever). I easily could have got bitten :) never again will I do that. OBT is one of my most defensive spiders, but P ornata I stay far away from unless feeding/cage maintenance she is way bigger 7.2" and growing.
 
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cold blood

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thanks very much guys for all the valuable input! So it's normal for them not to move or react even when they are gently poked? I decided earlier to move her leg to a certain position so I could go back later and see if there was a change in the position and sure enough it was out wide and when I came back 2 hours later it was moved back to the original spot under her belly, indicating that she must have moved it in that time. Hasn't moved since and I'm afraid to annoy her anymore, but I really hope it's just her frozen with fear though I never would have thought a species like the OBT with a fearless reputation wouldn't curl up in a ball and let anything poke it. I'm going to post pictures of my set up and and photo of the OBT and where she is.

The set up as I said is basic at the moment as I'm trying to dry out the damp peat which would only make the humidity skyrocket given that we already have high humidity here in Ireland as it is and it would turn her environment from desert to tropical. I have ordered a bunch of vines and plants from Ebay so I'm waiting on them to arrive. I'm also ordering dry moss to great a more natural look, and of course I'll be adding the peat moss on top of that for a deeper substrate once it dries.

The reason I am anal about this OBT and worried so much is because I had a Rosie for about 3 months and only last week she died for no obvious reason. She was very active up to the day she died, eating one to two locusts every week until the week she died when she didn't accept the locoust, which he has done the rare time. She was doing her climbing, her abdomen looked healthy and round, the temperature was a good 75 degrees with thermostat and humidity about 65-75 which was basically more the natural Irish humidity rather than any controlled humidity. I wasn't using a ceramic heater from August to September but as the weather got very cold here and since our house isn't very warm, I used a thermostat controlled ceramic heater above the enclosure to maintain a temperature of about 75. I have tried the heat mat to the side and it basically let off very little heat through the glass, only raising it no more than 3 degrees in the region closest to the heat matt as full power with an Exo Terra tropical heat mat. So that wasn't good enough for my cold house. But anyways I don't know what happened, I thought they were hardier than that but seems like I'm not having much beginner's luck in the hooby and it's putting me off a little. I have kept snakes for years and despite their high maintenance I've never had issues of any dying on me. I was led to believe Ts are hardier and lower maintenance with few requirements, with many of them being able to live in room temperature for most of the seasons. View attachment 132149 View attachment 132150 View attachment 132151
Your rosea didn't just die with flawless care...we went over that in your rosea thread, right? (am I mixing you up?)...your reliance on those gauges in places where they have no value is causing you to way over-complicate things...forget what the lps and care sheets have mis-taught you. You're basically making some of the same mistakes all over again. Basic care is practically identical to a rosea...very simple.

Those gauges have better uses as weights for notes.

I would put this t in a (smaller) terrestrial enclosure. You need a smaller hide and to have it buried much of the way, t's appreciate tight places and are more inclined to be comfortable using them. Allow them to open them up by excavating them as they see fit. If they were people they would be more comfortable under a bed than in a church for example. That t is going to cower up there for a while until it starts to spin its own hide because it has zero refuge in that set-up. It can't even burrow, climbing to a corner is as close as it can get to a hide.:(

I still don't like your heat lamp, you couldn't pay me to use that thing on a t.

And really, really try to not poke or touch it any more.:)

Best of luck.
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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+1 I agree my big 6-8" pokies live in cages that big, my humidity meter hasn't been used in years. His cage is way too big , heat lamps are for lizards & roaches not Ts.
Bigger issue is do not pet a obt I did this once it is not a good idea !!! :)
 

loughrey101

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You see, I don't know what to do, the heat mat, for that terrarium passes trivial heat that is just not good enough for an OBT as Ireland can get very cold, the the hose has poor insulation, and I can't use room heaters because it's not my house and there is a thing against electric heating because of the high cost of electricity in Ireland. So the ceramic heater is the only thing that keeps it at a constant and comfortable 75 degrees. I don't know how people use the smaller heat mats as, unlike the large heat mats with higher wattage, give off trivial heat.

I still don't know what happened to my Rosie, nothing I did was significant enough to cause a hardy T like a Rosie to die as the mistakes I am making are generally beginners mistakes that don't cause Ts to drop dead suddenly because if that was the case Ts would be a super fragile pet that requires delicate and precise maintenance to keep them from dying.

I will be getting a very precise hydrometer that can be calibrated to a degree of accuracy, that is much better equality than all the ones in the reptile world. My temperature is properly controlled throughout the enclosure by a laser thermometer gun that has been tested to be calibrated to almost perfect accuracy. I have a pulse proportional thermostat that is super accurate and agrees with my high quality thermometer gun. So I probably have one of the most accurate and tightly controlled temperature enclosures in the hobby, and my Rosie benefited from a heavily controlled temperature. Humidity is something that will also be at least known with accuracy all over the enclosure very soon.

So you guys are telling me the ceramic heater is bad even though it maintains a constant temperature of 75 degrees? What is wrong with it? I'd imagine a T could burn quicker with a heat mat stuck to the wall of the enclosure or under the enclosure where they can burrow to than one completely out of reach but still able to great a constant ambient temperature throughout.

Why is the enclosure too big? It doesn't seem that big. It is the smallest sized terrestrial terrarium Exo Terra produce and looks little bigger from the average glass aquarium many T hobbyists use, apart from it being slightly wider. I want this T to thrive and not suffer. I'd love to see some pictures of ideal enclosures for adult OBTs. I prefer something nice looking, such as a glass one rather than those cheap plastic faunariums that I use for locusts. It's hard to know what is too small and what is too big. Does it cause them to die, the size of the enclosure? I also need one that has great ventilation and the Exo Terra ones have great ventilation to reduce humidity than the plastic ones or the aquarium set ups as it has an upper mesh top.

I will be adding more substrate to create depth very soon, but my question is if the substrate is bone dry, like peat moss, what can support a burrow if the dry peat is so loose? would it not need to be a little damp to add support?

I'm not sure on the size of the hide she needs, I always thought OBTs dig their own burrows anyway and bearly use hides provided for them. Could anyone give me a link to a hide that looks naturalistic but provides the security she needs? I don't mind paying a bit of money to make sure she doesn't die and gets all the years she needs. It's hard to get all the heat, humidity, enclosure etc. correct.

Thanks guys :)
 

Ultum4Spiderz

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You see, I don't know what to do, the heat mat, for that terrarium passes trivial heat that is just not good enough for an OBT as Ireland can get very cold, the the hose has poor insulation, and I can't use room heaters because it's not my house and there is a thing against electric heating because of the high cost of electricity in Ireland. So the ceramic heater is the only thing that keeps it at a constant and comfortable 75 degrees. I don't know how people use the smaller heat mats as, unlike the large heat mats with higher wattage, give off trivial heat.

I still don't know what happened to my Rosie, nothing I did was significant enough to cause a hardy T like a Rosie to die as the mistakes I am making are generally beginners mistakes that don't cause Ts to drop dead suddenly because if that was the case Ts would be a super fragile pet that requires delicate and precise maintenance to keep them from dying.

I will be getting a very precise hydrometer that can be calibrated to a degree of accuracy, that is much better equality than all the ones in the reptile world. My temperature is properly controlled throughout the enclosure by a laser thermometer gun that has been tested to be calibrated to almost perfect accuracy. I have a pulse proportional thermostat that is super accurate and agrees with my high quality thermometer gun. So I probably have one of the most accurate and tightly controlled temperature enclosures in the hobby, and my Rosie benefited from a heavily controlled temperature. Humidity is something that will also be at least known with accuracy all over the enclosure very soon.

So you guys are telling me the ceramic heater is bad even though it maintains a constant temperature of 75 degrees? What is wrong with it? I'd imagine a T could burn quicker with a heat mat stuck to the wall of the enclosure or under the enclosure where they can burrow to than one completely out of reach but still able to great a constant ambient temperature throughout.

Why is the enclosure too big? It doesn't seem that big. It is the smallest sized terrestrial terrarium Exo Terra produce and looks little bigger from the average glass aquarium many T hobbyists use, apart from it being slightly wider. I want this T to thrive and not suffer. I'd love to see some pictures of ideal enclosures for adult OBTs. I prefer something nice looking, such as a glass one rather than those cheap plastic faunariums that I use for locusts. It's hard to know what is too small and what is too big. Does it cause them to die, the size of the enclosure? I also need one that has great ventilation and the Exo Terra ones have great ventilation to reduce humidity than the plastic ones or the aquarium set ups as it has an upper mesh top.

I will be adding more substrate to create depth very soon, but my question is if the substrate is bone dry, like peat moss, what can support a burrow if the dry peat is so loose? would it not need to be a little damp to add support?

I'm not sure on the size of the hide she needs, I always thought OBTs dig their own burrows anyway and bearly use hides provided for them. Could anyone give me a link to a hide that looks naturalistic but provides the security she needs? I don't mind paying a bit of money to make sure she doesn't die and gets all the years she needs. It's hard to get all the heat, humidity, enclosure etc. correct.

Thanks guys :)
Ts are cold blooded a heat mat can burn them, save it for roach colony.
Heat lamps work for roaches, and lizards/reptiles Ts do not need them.
Your Cage is way too big but if you plan on keeping a small collection it will work for OBT.
OBT will make her own hide, but a pre-started cave is nice.

Does anyone got a better heating suggestion? Space heaters are all I can think of.
 

loughrey101

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But the thing is, I need some heater attached to her enclosure because she'd die in the very cold temperatures Ireland can produce. So it's only an option between a heat mat or a ceramic lamp. I don't have the privilege of a temperature controlled room, so I need a heat source directed at the enclosure. Yeah, I can't use space heaters as the owners of the place I'm renting won't allow space heaters as they are too energy consuming.

Is my enclosure's size something that might hurt the OBT? I've seen other member's OBT enclosures here on other threads and some are big enough to hold a large python in. Apart from the cheap plastic faunariums, mine seem to be the smallest.

Anyone who has good experience with this species, what kind of enclosure do you use and if you're unlucky like me to need a reptile heater, what do you use and how do you position it? Are the plastic ones that most people use the best? My concern with those is they have poor ventilation with peat moss and I wouldn't know how to use a heater on one of those. Thanks!
 
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Ultum4Spiderz

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But the thing is, I need some heater attached to her enclosure because she'd die in the very cold temperatures Ireland can produce. So it's only an option between a heat mat or a ceramic lamp. I don't have the privilege of a temperature controlled room, so I need a heat source directed at the enclosure. Yeah, I can't use space heaters as the owners of the place I'm renting won't allow space heaters as they are too energy consuming.
OK get her a good hide, so lamp does not cook her. MAke a hide out of a plastic container if you must, or a half log. If you give her deep sub that should help. If its so cold does Irish heating not work? I am in 10 degreez weather here a lot of nights, in Ohio.
I just hope your spider does well :)
 
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